Jenny Kirk: The Overzealous Skating Parent

antmanb said:

Ah but there's the real issue KW - people in your position would rarely admit their weaknesses....in public no less. And certainly wouldn't be big enough to admit these things and then say they don't have the right to judge others! But that's just what makes you so great!

Ant

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Oh - pish posh... I just try to learn from my mistakes and keep it real. That's all you can do as a parent...

antmanb said:

Yes i decided to finally choose an avatar - it's one of my dogs just over two years ago when he was 8 weeks old!

I also have never pushed him into skating nor am i a pushy skating parent!

Actually properly on topic - i always wonder why these crazed parents don't just take up skating themselves. it would be a much outlet for them, they could themselves as hard as they like with a goal of competing at adult nationals.

Ant

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But where's the fun in that?!?

Kwanford Wife said:

But where's the fun in that?!?

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Come on KW - you know you want to get out on that football pitch ( i refuse to call it "soccer"!!) and run around out there to prove yourself!

Ant

antmanb said:

Come on KW - you know you want to get out on that football pitch ( i refuse to call it "soccer"!!) and run around out there to prove yourself!

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You know, an American would not only call it soccer, they would also refer to a field rather than a pitch. Pitches are in baseball! Though baseball pitch is not the actual field of play.

She does raise some very good points. How much should a parent push their child? There are times when a child doesn't want to practice/ do homework/ whatever else, and it is appropriate for the parent to remind the child of their responsibilities. When does this cross the line? I don't know.

The example that always baffles me is Evgeni Plushenko. No, his parents didn't push him - he was the one who wanted to skate-skate-skate. However, his parents allowed him to go off on his own to Saint Petersburg when he was 11 years old! Yes, this was what he wanted to do - but did I mention he was just 11 years old?! And it wasn't like the skaters who went off to train to another city during the Soviet days - hard as the experience has been on, say, Berezhnaya, she lived in a dorm with adult supervision, her basic needs such as food where taken care of, etc. In Plushenko's case, though - he lived in a communal apartment, had to buy his own groceries and cook... I'm sure his parents did what they thought was in his best interest (and, as I've said before, he certainly did want to go), and you can argue that things "worked out very well in the end", but I guess I don't really see this as proper parenting. I usually try to avoid such judgmental pronouncements, but I guess I do have a strong opinion on this one.

Buttercup said:

You know, an American would not only call it soccer, they would also refer to a field rather than a pitch. Pitches are in baseball! Though baseball pitch is not the actual field of play.

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There's not way you'd get a Brit to call it a soccer field! See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_pitch

Ant

But what if you're not quite good enough to win?

What's sad here is that not everybody is talented enough to win a gold medal. It sounds like some parents feel that the sacrifices are worth it for everybody as long as the kid WINS. (I know parents like this.) The problem is that some kids will just be talented enough to be competitive, but not win. If that's the best you can do, then it is, and for some kids no amount of training will change this. I'd love to hear what Jenny would say about this issue. When are the sacrifices worth it or not? And when the kid wins, are the overbearing parents somehow justified?

Ptichka said:

The example that always baffles me is Evgeni Plushenko. No, his parents didn't push him - he was the one who wanted to skate-skate-skate. However, his parents allowed him to go off on his own to Saint Petersburg when he was 11 years old! Yes, this was what he wanted to do - but did I mention he was just 11 years old?! And it wasn't like the skaters who went off to train to another city during the Soviet days - hard as the experience has been on, say, Berezhnaya, she lived in a dorm with adult supervision, her basic needs such as food where taken care of, etc. In Plushenko's case, though - he lived in a communal apartment, had to buy his own groceries and cook... I'm sure his parents did what they thought was in his best interest (and, as I've said before, he certainly did want to go), and you can argue that things "worked out very well in the end", but I guess I don't really see this as proper parenting. I usually try to avoid such judgmental pronouncements, but I guess I do have a strong opinion on this one.

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Plushenko's case is disturbing - not only did he live in a communal one-room apartment with a bunch of adults he did not know, hundreds of miles from his parents, when he was only eleven, but at least some of those adults were drunks and the situation in the apartment included violent fighting. Plushenko has mentioned that he was "terrified" until his coach, Mishin, discovered how bad it was and arranged for him to live in a somewhat-improved communal apartment somewhere else. In addition, the other skaters at Mishin's rink shunned young Evgeni and sometimes bullied him - he was younger than the rest of them but could already jump better than most, and was seen as a threat. He has said that he had no friends.

But Plushenko has always maintained that he wanted to stay in St. Petersburg, as bad as it was, because he knew becoming a success in skating was the only way he could help his parents. It was a huge sacrifice for such a young boy, but perhaps none of us can really understand the circumstances his family was under and why it was necessary.

Gah! I teach skating and some of those parents make me want to scream at them! If you are paying me money to teach your child, nothing can be gained from you shouting down the bleachers about posture or knees or anything else. I once saw a parent shove her child onto the ice and then shut the door to off ice, trapping her on the ice. The kid would stand at the door and cry.
Overzealous skating parents make me crazy. And they probably don't do much for their children, either. I try to kid them into stopping, saying things like, "Would you like to make this a group lesson? Come on out!"
Or I tell them about the sign my mechanic has up at his shop that says something like:
Hourly rate: $30
Hourly rate if you want to supervise: $60
Hourly rate if you want to help: $90

megsk8z said:

Gah! I teach skating and some of those parents make me want to scream at them! If you are paying me money to teach your child, nothing can be gained from you shouting down the bleachers about posture or knees or anything else.

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:think: Then why get a coach in the first place? :scratch:

Great article! Jenny is really a good writer and very candid

I did witness that 10-year-old girls skating about 15 hours per week, and one even got injured. From what I heard, for girls to be competitive, that's what they need to do. I always wonder whether that level of training is too harsh on the young developping bodies. But I guess if you want to be really competitive as professional, that what you need to do in any sports. So it's up to the parents to be sure whether that's really their kids' goal or the parents' goal. And remember, parents are there to provide guidence to the kids.

callalily said:

In the sport of hockey, it's the dads.

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right, that's why Sarah Palin "came up with" the joke about hockey moms and pitbulls... (which was a tired joke when SHE said it, and became overly annoying afterwards)...

women are passionate, as are men, and when it comes to their kids they do some oddball things (good and bad)...


I don't think Jenny hates the sport. I think she is fine and even enjoys skating... it's what goes on around it - all of the negative - that she's speaking out against. The only way to change it is to reveal all the ugly... we're all blinded by the glitz and glam

http://trueslant.com/jenniferkirk/2009/08/04/the-overzealous-skating-parent/

Jennifer, I tried commenting on your blog when you wrote your first article, but was unable to, even though I got as far as registering, but then bam I hit a block, lol.

Anyway, if you're reading this, I just want you to know that your latest article really hit me hard, can't stop thinking about it, very emotional. I think it's your greatest one yet. Your article combined with what Louis wrote over on FSU was a real eye-opener. Its caused me to lose some of my love & joy for this sport, temporarily though, same thing has happened to me many times before, lol. Seriously, the implementation of COP stopped me in my tracks, the 2006 Olympic Free Skate of Sasha Cohen brought me back in. Also, the madness after Tara won in 1998 was a real downer. I watched the boards but didn't really participate. It gets crazy sometimes.

But your article has affected me differently, it brought back my caseload from my social work days, some of the things in those files would have you on your knees, especially the home visits. What a very brave thing you've done, Jenny, very brave. Putting a spotlight on what isn't talked about. Not really, though I recall reading a book "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes", but that mainly had to do with gymnastics. It's a whole other thing to come from a skater themself. I'm pretty sure reverberations from this will be felt for a long time to come.

You've found your niche, writing , and I read something recently that stated you would be doing a charity show, skating. Now maybe you can skate with the heart of a child again, recall what you love about skating, leastways I hope so. Lol, I still roller skate (though rarely), and I still feel the joy!

I still love this sport, it combines everything I love (beauty & art & athleticism) but will be taking a temporary hiatus, lol my business has suffered a bit from my overzealous excitement about this upcoming Olympic Season, now its back to what I love to do & am fortunate enough to be able to do.

P.S. and I'm looking forward to your next article.

^ if you REALLY want to make sure she sees it, an option is to type it somewhere and tweet the link to her. (I was considering asking you if you wanted me to tweet her a link to your post (in single view mode), but then again, I'd rather not send her any link of any kind to these forums, even if she's admitted to reading them in the past- curiosity might get the better of her as there's a way to view the whole thread from the single post window, and then you know the rest of the story. )

Red Dog said:

:think: Then why get a coach in the first place? :scratch:

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That's why when the skater parent asks me how much I owe, I tell them, "$90. What part of you are paying me to coach your child are you having difficulty with?" Of course, it never comes to them actually forking over, but most of the parents are much more quiet the next lesson.

Meg's comment about the parent yelling from the bleachers is more common than you might think. We have a skater at our rink at the Senior (international) level who has gone through that with her mother incessantly. There was one day where I had to cover my ears as the skater was in the middle of a 3 way argument with her mother and coach. The mother was at the top of the bleaches, the skater in the middle of the rink, and the coach in the team hockey box.

Nadine said:

Then there are those I've always wondered about (e.g. Michelle's mom seemed like the loving caring one, whereas her dad I'm not so sure, but then again I'm sure his pushing was the impetus of her success). How's that old saying go about opposites attracting & there being a fair balance.

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On a downside, I recall reading in Ekaterina Goordeva's book that Sergei didn't like to skate, he even told Scott Hamilton that he hated it. He said he skated because he had to. What he really wanted to do was travel the world & enjoy life. So sad, this coming from a 2-time Olympic Gold Medalist. But then again I recall Katia said that Sergei was disappointed with how he performed in the 1994Olympics because of his mistake on singling one of his jumps, and he seriously wanted to compete in the 1998 Olympics. So who knows...

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Since the USFSA asked the Kwan's to speak to the parents of other skaters, I think that they probably struck the right balance between support and pushing both Michelle and Karen. Based upon what Michelle has said about her father, it seemed that he was trying to ensure that she did not become a diva and that she had a responsibility to respect her fans.

I think a lot depends upon the person. In the Kwan family, it seems that Michelle had a greater drive for succesful skating as compared to Karen. Michelle's parents could have tried to push Karen more than Michelle, but there didn't seem to be a problem when Karen decided to stop skating and go to Boston for college instead. By all reports, the Kwan's have pushed their children to continue their educations. Stereotypical, but emigre's usually put the emphasis on the long term success of their kids via education vs fame.

One of my friends as 2 kids. The oldest beats herself; so, they don't push her unless she's not meeting her responsibilities. The younger is more happy go lucky and needs to be pushed. Their father told me that he asked for the swim teacher that would yell and push him vs the teacher that would baby and coax him into pushing himself.

I think most parents do push out of love more so than for the reflected glory. They think they are helping their child gain the child's dream and forget to stop and make sure that the child's dream has stayed the same. The parents got too wound up in the details to step back and look at the big picture. While athletes do need to train to push back the pain, I also think that it's wrong of the parents to ignore the possibility of a real injury that can have much longer term effects as compared to stopping to allow the injury to heal. It's certainly tempting to ignore when a big competition is just around the corner, but realistically a sports career is a lot shorter than the ongoing pain an athlete can suffer the remainder of his/her life and I think it is the parent's responsibility to look at the long term vision. If I had a child involved in athletics, I would only allow them to participate if they maintained their grades and lived an age appropriate lifestyle (i.e. don't let your 15 yr old go out late and party on a school night). With the brevity of an athletic career, the child has to be educated enough to not have to rely totally on handlers to manage everything for them and to consider what they want after sports is 'over'. The ones who aren't taught these lessons end up on the headlines for the wrong things (Tonya, Nicole, etc.)

With regard to Sergei, I didn't get the impression that he hated skating, but rather hated the regimen imposed by the Soviet system. In many books & interviews where people have mentioned G&G as a team, Sergei was the fun one and Katia was the driving force in the team. She mentions in her book that Sergei taught her to enjoy life and not just obsess over skating well. They were the right balance for each other.

overzealous skating parent

I would appreciate articles like this if they were from skating parents. Jenny Kirk was a skater and now she is trying to be a successful writer; writing about a sport that is only interesting to a small portion of the population. I don't know if anything she says is true and because her mom has passed away we can't hear her side of the story.

katiedear said:

I would appreciate articles like this if they were from skating parents. Jenny Kirk was a skater and now she is trying to be a successful writer; writing about a sport that is only interesting to a small portion of the population. I don't know if anything she says is true and because her mom has passed away we can't hear her side of the story.

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It would be very hard to find an "overzealous" skating parent that would be willing to write an article on all the mistakes they have made as a parent. They would have to admit to their over-demanding ways and how they controlled their children. Most controlling parents do not see the mistakes in judgement they have made and often fail to take responsibility and accountability for their actions.

I don't see why Jenny would make something of this nature up - especially considering her mother has passed away.

Sometimes they reflect on their past behaviors. The mother of a world-famous violinist Midori was a typical overzealous parent. I read a biography of her mom (母と神童―五嶋節物語 (小学館文庫) (文庫) ) based on interviews with both Midori and her mom. Since Midori's mom, Setsu, had been forced into unwanted marriage by her parents, Setsu tried to achieve what she wanted through her talented kid, Midori. Midori owes her success so much to her mom. But her mom was also so dominant in her psychology. Setsu later on regretted how she treated her as a kid.

Tinymavy15 said:

It is good that Jenny wrote about this issue, but lashing out at her mom? I feel like Jenny almost hates the sport and is using this blog to vent all her frustrations.

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You know... that's not a bad theory. Her articles have all been negative about different aspects of skating, haven't they? The one's I've seen anyway... locker room pressure... eating disorders... insane parents... hmmmm.