Ladies SP | Page 19 | Golden Skate

Ladies SP

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
If there was the possibility Mao's previous coach did want to continue to coach her part-time and put his reputation on the line, well it seems Tat is at least willing to do that; and in the K&C area she made a fist as if to say "be strong, Mao" and patted her on the back. I am not sure that Tat is the right coach for Mao at this time (just as I'm not sure if Mao should be worrying about or even incorporating the 3axel into any of her programs right now), but I do believe her intentions are not as "evil" as they appear, nor would I put all fault in her

Tarasova is definetly not evil. I've always liked her honestly. What I like about her is that she seems to have a real love for skating.

But I'm going to say this I don't think Aruturian was wrong at all for putting his foot down about the parttime coaching situation. I'm sure he was worried about his reputation, but he was probably also trying to send Mao a message as well.

If I was a coach I'd feel the exact same way he did. If I'm your coach I'm your coach, and it will have to be a fulltime situation. Not you training by yourself for months and me there for only a couple of weeks. It's my career, so of course I have to be concerned about my reputation! But also because I don't think that's a good training situation for any student. I always felt that in the long run this part time situation would be disasterous for Mao.

I'm not sure how Tarasova, after her experience with Arakawa, couldn't have known that part time coaching wasn't the best plan for Mao. And I wish that someone had knocked some sense into Mao after last year's not so great season.
 
Last edited:

zartian

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
OK, enough from me about Asada- on to the other skaters:

Czisny: Better than I expected. She stood up during the program which is always a positive. However, silly mistake on the 2A after nailing the first two triple jumps...had she hit that, she'd have a comfortable lead now, I'm sure of it.

Wagner: Good start. Seems like she underrotated some jumps because the score was a little low (I was expecting something closer to 58 or something)

Note: I still think they should either make it clear to the viewer on TV whether a jump was underrotated, or lessen the penalty for underrotated jump. I think only clearly visible mistakes should detract from the score but that's another thread. Just for the sake of the audience. suggestion: apply the -1 deduction for underrotation and give 0 points for failed jumps.

Ando: Unfortunate mistake but reasonable start. With Asada struggling, will she assert herself as the top Japanese lady in the field now?

I've been thinking the current US ladies are somehow lacking in charactor. But wow! Alissa and Ashley really has developed their own style and charactor! Alissa is very serene and elegant, Ashley tense and dramatic.. Mirai also had a juvenile flirtatious charactor which I liked when she was 14, but not anymore (I wish her to give up that style and grow up)

I was particularly amazed by Ashley's SP program. Whoever choreo'd it, he/she did a brilliant job: it really highlightens the skater's personality! I would dare to say it has a potential to be a masterpiece, the best program I've seen so far this season. :clap: I just wish her to improve technically (no more downgrades plz) and make her great program a real masterpiece!:rock:
 
Last edited:

Skatetomusic

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
:biggrin: But seriously, something is awfully wrong with Asada. And Joubert for that matter. I have the feeling that Asada is buried under expectations, pressure etc. She needs to get out, have some fun.


I'm sad for Asada as well. I getting used to the pattern of The Japanese Federation putting to much pressure on there skaters overall.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
There's no point in doing the Axel in combination in the SP (nor the LP, for that matter, if she is only going to do 1 of them). She would get so many more points by adding a Triple onto the end of her Flip.

She should do both. Ironically, it is the axel combos that she seems to do better on.
 

SusieH

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
I finanally brought myself to watch Mao's SP. It's really not as bad as I thought. In fact she messed up only ONE element, and the rest of her performance was actually fine. It is because that element affected the following combo and made her subsequent 2A invalid, so much trouble ensued. What's really surprising is that she and her team didn't prepare a PLAN B in advance. She should just improvise a bit, insert a combo, or change her 2A to a triple....or something---that is what plan B is all about. Do they have a plan B? Well, if they don't, I'm sure next time they will.

I don't know what has happened to Mao, but I agree with others who said she needs a vacation off. She looked as if the burden of the world was on her. It's saddening to see her like that. :no:

Since her 3As look very inconsistent right now, I hope she can ditch at least one in skating her LP today. She is fully capable of finding her way back to the podium as long as she can somewhat regain her mental strength.
 

pista04

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
First off, Congrats Alissa and Ashley!!! Hopefully Alissa can pull out a great FS like she's known to sometimes, and doesn't let the pressure hit her! Im sure this will look good to the USFS for both of them!

Now, I didn't have time to read every reply, but thought it was worth noting...this reminds me of pre-olympic gymnastics to an extent. Nastia Liukin had ruled the gym...until Shawn Johnson came up. Then, Nastia began finding herself behind Shawn over and over, even nearly faceplanting at one point....but in the end, Liukin pulled it out. I kinda hope that's how it goes here...I must admit, I truly disliked Mao Asada before mid-season last year, but now she's truly growing on me.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Miki's program looked pretty good. As for Mao, I don't know what to say. Nothing is working for her, her programs, her costumes, her jumps... Well I hope she will get her jumps back but her older sister, Mai, started losing her 3lutz,3flip and 3loop around when she was 18-19ish? Their jumping techniques are very similar and equally bad, so maybe Mao can't jump anymore with that weird jumping techniques that she has.

I know some people are pointing out that she should go for 3/3s instead of 3axels.. but I really think Mao no longer has a 3/3. I don't know if she can bring back the jumps with a good technical coach.. it might be too late.


Well, I am looking forward to watching Miki's LP tomorrow!! Go Miki!!
 

hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
Actually, it was exactly the other way around. Rafael didn't want to fix the Flutz, he thought the compulsory deduction for flutzing was unfair. Possibly he wanted to wait with fixing the wrong edge take-off until the off-season, but by that time Mao switched away from him.

I think that part of the reason that Mao clings to her 3As is that it simply is one of the few triples that Mao feels comfortable with...

3Lz - fixed flutz, but in result - not a stable jump, often popped or doubled
3F - fixed "toe hammer" (lifting free leg too high, almost above the head), in result - slow approach into the jump, not much flow out, difficult to tack on a triple on the end.
3L - used to be Mao's most favourite jump - for some reason UR at TEB and in practice here at CoR. Fatigue?
3S - in the summer clips, looked perfect with changed technique (more height and take off a'la Miki), but not very stable in competitions.
3T - actually, probably Mao's most stable triple jump right now, though acquired fairly recently.

In the meantime she worked on 3F-3L, 3F-3T, 3A-3T, 3F-3L-2L, 3L-3L, 3L-3L-2L, 'Tano jumps, not to mention on basic skills, spins, spirals, etc.

I think Mao should just give up on some things (like 3F-3L, 3S, 3A-2T) and instead concentrate on those jumps that she could reasonably master until Olympics (solo 3A, 3L-3L looked fab in practice, much better than 3F-3L, 3Lz looked great when done on fresh legs).

Maybe something like:
3L-3L
3F/3Lz
2A

and

3A
2A-3T
3Lz
3L-3L
3F-2L-2L
3F
2A

would have worked much better. However, to master that jump layout Mao would probably have to miss the GPF and instead find a jump doctor (Lee Barkell, maybe?) and work, work, work.

Thanks for reminding me of Rafael situation and her summer practices. I do hope that she will hire a fulltime jump coach, gets her confidence back, and enjoy skating again.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Now, I didn't have time to read every reply, but thought it was worth noting...this reminds me of pre-olympic gymnastics to an extent. Nastia Liukin had ruled the gym...until Shawn Johnson came up. Then, Nastia began finding herself behind Shawn over and over, even nearly faceplanting at one point....but in the end, Liukin pulled it out. I kinda hope that's how it goes here...I must admit, I truly disliked Mao Asada before mid-season last year, but now she's truly growing on me.

Your missing some important facts here. First of all Nastia had a major injury right before 2006 Worlds. She had ankle surgery and it took a long time for her to rehabilitate. She lost probably a year of training. her landings and could only really train bars and beam. She messed up 2007 Nationals because going there she and only just started landing on hard floors. She looked better at 2007 Worlds, but it was clear that her gymnastics didn't have the polish that it use to have.

Yes, Shawn was beating Nastia in 2007, but she was beating a recovering from injury Nastia. In 2008, Nastia was looking a LOT better. She even beat Shawn at the American Cup. While yes she was making some mistakes, it was clear that her gymnastics was a lot more polished and it was just a matter of peaking her at the right time. Something her father is very good at. (He's a former Soviet gymnast and they were all about peaking their athletes) Shawn was also over scored at US internal competitions.
 
Last edited:

*Sniper*

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Just finished watching Alissa's SP.
She is gorgeous when she doesn't fall! :)
I loved her dress, too.

I had completely written her out for the two Oly spots because of her inconsistency, but I might have to change my mind depending on how the LP goes. :biggrin:

Good luck!! :thumbsup:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Am I dreaming, or is Czisny in SECOND PLACE after the short? Oh, my paws and whiskers! This is marvelous. I'll try to hunt up her short program tomorrow. Golly, maybe this is the year she keeps her cool and lives up to her potential. And to see Julia Sebestyen sitting at the top of the heap is a delight. She's a trouper--did someone say it's going to be her fourth Olympics?--and obviously a woman of persistence and strength.

But alas for Asada. That poor girl is melting down in full view of the world.

I understand the reasons for Kim's supremacy right now, and I enjoy and admire her skating. But I also have a huge affection for Asada: there's a lightness and fluidity to her skating that no one else has. Skating can't afford to cast her aside, and in an Olympic year, no less. How could the people around her allow her to lose touch with her confidence like this? What--they're only coaching her from the ankles down?
 

Tango_D_R

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
First time ever to post,

I've been watching this forum for almost 3 years now, but at last.. I finally pushed myself to actually sign-up today.
Since I've missed the COR this year and only checked the results from ISU,
I'm very much surprised at the outcomes in the Ladies section.:think:
Mao in 6th huh.. probably crushed on her 3X again and struggled on the remaining jumps I guess..?
While her technical scores were way down the earth, her PCS were highest out of all the ladies, so..
: She messed up on her jumps or made a huge crash but managed to get a grip of herself and performed an outstanding(compared to the other ladies) skating : this is my guess, judging by the ISU results.
..can't wait to check out the protocols or clips of her SP to confirm.

BTW had it not been her PCS she might have scored forty-something..:eek:
Knowing what she's capable of.. this is pretty shocking news for me.

-----------------------------

Quick question, is there any live feed to watch the LP?
 
Last edited:

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Thanks for the links.
I enjoyed Alissa's program - and after a day of so much huffing and puffing about Mao/Tat, Alissa's gentle and elegant skating made me realize how much I enjoy figure skating.
I recommend to some of those who are still so worked up over Mao to take a look at Alissa. Maybe not the best, but surely lovely and full of grace.
Way to go Alissa! :love:
Yes! Figure skating is not just about Mao and Yuna.
I also liked Ashley and Julia.

Which is wrong, by the way. There is no other sport where you can suck and at the same time get big points. There needs to be a basis in my opinion. One double Axel and one Triple Flip is no basis. Plus, it's not like she skated the lights out. Some skaters, e.g. Lambiel, can make you forget some mistakes with their fantastic presentation. The judges shouldn't be influenced by that either, but that's more understandable than reputation judging.
I agree. Her program did not deserve 1st place in PCS.

Note: I still think they should either make it clear to the viewer on TV whether a jump was underrotated, or lessen the penalty for underrotated jump.
This would be so useful to see downgrades on the screen!

As for Mao, I don't know what to say. Nothing is working for her, her programs, her costumes, her jumps... Well I hope she will get her jumps back but her older sister, Mai, started losing her 3lutz,3flip and 3loop around when she was 18-19ish? Their jumping techniques are very similar and equally bad, so maybe Mao can't jump anymore with that weird jumping techniques that she has.
It is interesting that now, when she has problems with jumps people start pointing out that she has bad technique. I remember, few years ago, when she was a jumping bean, everyone on different boards was prizing her for her technique.. Oh well.
 

SXTN

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
another big problem is that mao loses her reputation with performances like that... judges don't like that... yuna for example is solid as a rock and the judges say thank you by giving her pcs around 66+ in the freeskate...

mao looked like a wet noodle yesterday.. i think tarasova as a person is too intimidating for her.. mao is so shy and sensitive , maybe this is the problem...
i don't think she has physical issues.. it's definetely mentally... maybe also because she was used to be better than yuna a couple of seasons ago.. plus she was always judged better.. when they both skated a clean short program, mao was usually ahead.. and now yuna is unstoppable.. this is not easy for an 18-year old girl.. in addition the pressure caused by the media ( this whole "yuna-mao" thing) etc etc etc... i wanna see you skate brilliant programs under these circumstances.... i think she's really going through a lot of hard stuff at the moment (pressure, competition with other skaters, reworking her techique)

if i were in her shoes i wouldn't skate the fs today... just go home and prepare silently for the upcoming competitions in 2010 ( preferably without the woman from russia:laugh: )... just in complete silence without tv sessions where everybody expects her to do 100 3axels in 10 minutes =))
 

figurejennah

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Well, actually Yuna didn't FIX her edge problem. As you know, Yuna hadn't got any edge problem until the last season, which means that she essentially had the right technique to do 3F with inside edge. When she got ! mark on her 3F in the last season, she said that because she had to think too much about putting 3T after 3F, her edge was changed slightly to flat. Now, she is doing 3F as a solo jump, and she is very comfortable with her 3F taking off with inside edge because she doens't have to think about putting 3T after 3F anymore.

See, I mean that's what I thought. I watched all of her programs since jr, and I never thought she had any flip edge problems. During last season, maybe her flip was slightly neutral and appeared like her ankle twisted outwards when she took off, but that doesn't mean that her edge take off was wrong. But it was so crazy on youtube and even on this forum that I was confused..... :cool: To look back, people made such a big deal out of her alleged "Lip" so.... I guess it does prove that yuna is a text book jumper?
 
Last edited:

figurejennah

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
I have followed Brian Orser's career since his memorable performance at the Sarajevo Olympics.

Nothing I have seen in Brian's long skating and now coaching career would point to him behaving as a previous poster had suggested. To the contrary Brian has shown grace, compassion and loads of class throughout his long career.

Brian Orser is just so amazing. I really have tremendous respect for him and without Brian Orser, Yun wouldn't be the same Queen yuna that we see today!!! :) I am just glad to see him happy to live that Olympic dream again through his talented student...
 

ilunga1965

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
See, I mean that's what I thought. I watched all of her programs since jr, and I never thought she had any flip edge problems. During last season, maybe her flip was slightly neutral and appeared like her ankle twisted outwards when she took off, but that doesn't mean that her edge take off was wrong. But it was so crazy on youtube and even on this forum that I was confused..... :cool: To look back, people made such a big deal out of her alleged "Lip" so.... I guess it does prove that yuna is a text book jumper?


You've said what I had tried to say. Even though I said a few times(in another forum) then that there was nothing wrong with Yuna's flip when she got the 'attention' marks, people thought that I was a bit biased 'cause I'm a Korean.

Brian Orser thought of an official complaint, bur later he decided not to(with an interview with a Korean media). He might think that sort of complaint may give a negative influence both on judges and on Yuna in further competitions. I think he's a fantastic coach.

I also think both Korean and Japanese media should stop putting too much emphasis on the 'Mao-Yuna thing'. Some Korean Yuna fans even say that the biggest weakness of Yuna is her nationality.
 
Last edited:
Top