OD - 12:00 EST - Saturday, November 21 | Page 3 | Golden Skate

OD - 12:00 EST - Saturday, November 21

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Can't wait for the GPF with the 3 north american teams...and tessa and scott will hopefully have a phenomenal FD, redeem themselves, and truly earn their gold medal
 

nevergonnadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Just to reiterate - I think the other two were possibly scored too high. I just didn't think this was a very strong field (prior to V/M taking the ice). On the level of basic skating P/B are not impressive.
 

figuristka

Medalist
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Iam sorry i missed this, forgot about the time. I adore V/M's OD, the style, character of the dance is superb. Sounds like they didn't skate it like they did previously. What a shame, was wanting to see it skated well.
 

beep_beep

Medalist
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Just to reiterate - I think the other two were possibly scored too high. I just didn't think this was a very strong field (prior to V/M taking the ice). On the level of basic skating P/B are not impressive.
Ok, but 10 points better??
It's like their clear stumbles didn't even happen....
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I would have given it to Weaver and Poje over P/B. I got on W/P bandwagon a few years ago just noting talent. After Olys, everyone will be on their bandwagon. JMO.

What was interesting was P/B's use of American country music, and it was Blue Grass - not all that CMA stuff. Skating to American folk music is always risky. Not sure if P/B just copied it from Hollywood movie scenes which were never authentic according to the blue grass people. That George Clooney movie demonstrated blue grass very well.

Anyhow happy that W&P are beginning to be recognized.
 

nevergonnadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Ok, but 10 points better??
It's like their clear stumbles didn't even happen....

I don't know - but I was watching P/B and thinking they were NOT good - they were sloppy in their individual skating, off time with the music at times, and lacked unison. No "mistakes" but it was a semi-labored effort - I was really surprised.

There's always this debate between "clean" versus "mistakes and higher level skating" always, in cases like this. IMO V/M's edge depth and speed even today are extraordinary versus the field at SC.

If P/B had skated stronger overall (not just clean) IMO they would have a better case for the scores to be closer but it was really not cohesive.

Weaver and Poje need more strength in their skating. The program kicks a$$ and it's all there in the structure, but the actual skating is kind of flamenco lite.

Just .02. I'm not saying V/M were 60 but I don't know about P/B's score either. If their compatriots were here, maybe they wouldn't have gotten 56 or 55, whatever they got, and maybe because they did, V/M had to get 60 for a lesser (for them) effort.
 

nevergonnadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Exactly. One thing: the OD wasn't 10 points better. It was 4.5 points better. Those clear stumbles should've knocked away that difference without a beat.

I don't agree with you. I'm never on the side of higher level with mistakes gets leveled with a clean team that has mediocre (IMO) skate quality.

But if you think P/B are better than I think they are, I get your point. I didn't think they were good.
 

Dyan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Belbin/Agosto only got a 60.95 at SA. I have no technical eye for ice dance...but this would suggest that B/A are not near V/M or D/W (who scored a 63-something at NHK)

or is this just a 'you can't compare across competitions'? because a 3 point difference in the OD seems like a lot. and V/M getting virtually the same score as a clean B/A seems to say that there is a big difference in their skating, despite B/A clearly beating them at Worlds.

Reading through the PBP and comments at first I felt better seeing that V&M received a 60 something which is what B&A have received at both of their events. But to read a little bit farther and see that V&M had two falls and still posted a 60? Even pre-Linichuk I feel that B&A were still competitive with V&M (as you said last season the judges seemed to agree) and this year they are closer in skating skill.

Scout like you I had been thinking that the judges were marking the skaters in comparison to the fields they are skating in so I still wasn't worried about B&A. However, IMO while there is a huge drop off in skating skills between V&M and the rest of skaters from S&B/W&P down the list, P&B (IMO) are good enough to beat a horrible performance by V&M. Maybe there is something to the comments that the judges aren't even going to give B&A a fair shot at the olympic gold. Perhaps not even a medal. :frown: :scowl:

For the record V&M are one of my favorite teams.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Dyan, there weren't two falls in the sense that there were two deductions. Neither stumble counted as a fall. But the stumbles were noteworthy enough that if Moir hadn't been supporting her, she would have fallen. I remember Brodeur/Mattatal having a spin that went awry like that and they counted it as a fall (his support was necessary in the specific position they were in). I thought that would've happened here. It didn't. Because neither stumble was on an element, the TES were unaffected, but they were considerably gifted in the PCS. It was a disappointing performance, no doubt, but their marks were even moreso.
 

Dyan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
ImaginaryPogue, thanks. I haven't seen the OD's and don't usually comment before I have seen them but it threw me a little when I saw people refer to "falls" in their posts. I took that to mean that Tessa actually was down on the ice twice.

IMO P&B's skating skills have improved a lot over the past few years and while V&M are still superior skaters overall I do believe because of V&M's issues today the gap between them and P&B could have been closer even if P&B didn't outright win the OD.

I've been checking the schedules but is Universal airing any of the dance competition? From what I saw it doesn't seem so which is a shame as I would have liked to get V&M's, P&B's and W&P's FD's on tape.
 

1795

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
i can't wait to see the protocols for V/M's twizzles and the footworks :agree:

good acting.
 

sktgirl6

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
3rd. canadian team

where is this team from? They looked like they just moved up from junior. Does anyone know!
 

nevergonnadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
IMO P&B's skating skills have improved a lot over the past few years and while V&M are still superior skaters overall I do believe because of V&M's issues today the gap between them and P&B could have been closer even if P&B didn't outright win the OD.

P/B's skating skills may have improved a lot but it didn't show today and I believe there was still a marked gap between them and V/M despite V/M's stumbles. P/B's skating was not strong today - not as good as at TEB, IMO.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
where is this team from? They looked like they just moved up from junior. Does anyone know!

They've been together since 2007. Individually, they competed on the junior grand prix, but not together. They've been strictly senior together, but have only done two international competitions before this year.
 

Atena

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
i can't wait to see the protocols for V/M's twizzles and the footworks :agree:

good acting.

as much as like them V/M scores were just a joke, is good OD and good CD, but that high marks...sorry but no way
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
where is this team from? They looked like they just moved up from junior. Does anyone know!

Here's their background, and competitive history. If you clink on the names of their previous pairings, you will see the profile of their former teams.

http://www.tracings.net/chon-gfel.html

They competed at Skate Canada last year.

You could not say they were just up from Juniors, as Andrea is 22 and Gfeller is 24.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
i can't wait to see the protocols for V/M's twizzles and the footworks :agree:

good acting.

Twizzles: 0.2, with one judge giving them a 2 (WTH?)
CiSt3: mostly 1s and 2s, which is right - the mistakes came later.
NtMiSt2: ditto.

The mistakes were in the transitions/linking footwork/movement, but that was still scored in the eights. I don't see how they got 9.00 from one judge in interpretation/timing, and the 9.50 in choreography (same judge) definitely feels like a "lets see how to get this score higher" maneuver.
 
Top