Mid-Season Report: U.S. Ladies, R.D. Style | Golden Skate

Mid-Season Report: U.S. Ladies, R.D. Style

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mid-Season Report: U.S. Ladies, R.D. Style (Updated Periodically With Articles)

So folks-

It's practically December now. Less than two months to go until U.S. Nationals. Two Olympic spots at stake, more than twice as many contenders. So, where does everyone stand at this cross-roads? Let's start with the Contenders:

CONTENDERS:

Flatt. Her usual rock-solid consistency took a little break earlier in China, where she struggled a bit and finished OTP. Then, in Skate America, she skated a decent SP (even though she took a rare fall on her 3-3). She skated a solid FS to a standing O and put the pressure on Yuna, the last skater (who had a rough outing). She was able to top Yuna in the FS with a really strong score (116) and finished 2nd overall. So the questions are: Is there much room for improvement after SA? Can she max out the points even when she's off? Has she peaked too soon after that freeskate? I think she has clearly set herself up as the front-runner for an Oly spot. Her 5th place finish at worlds shows that she can hang in there and even though she's probably not competitive for an Oly medal except in a "Sarah Hughes" situation, she will likely be the highest finishing American in Vancouver.

What about Nationals? Stay on your feet, really perform your SP to try to get as much of a head-start as possible. I think she is starting to gain some "rep points" from the int'l judges so this might help give her an edge.

Wagner. The dark horse in all this. She surprised most of us by placing a solid 2nd in Russia, then went to Japan with the chance to win the event but slipped and wound up in 3rd. Both her medal finishes were enough to qualify her for the Final, and she is the only American lady heading to the event. So the questions are: How will she do in the GPF? Will her standing there help or hurt her momentum going into Nats? Can she rotate her jumps, and more importantly, does she have the stamina to perform that back-loaded program? I keep saying, if she is on, I think she will be a genuine threat for the US championship. I wouldn't imagine anyone other than Rachel being able to beat her. She still struggles with consistency issues, but all it takes is that right skate at the right time.

What about Nationals? Learn from last year- she cannot afford to make silly mistakes in the SP. She needs to exude that same confidence she expressed in that NYT article. And- most importantly- avoid UR calls.

Czisny. Oh, Alyssa...people wanted you to give up a while ago and here you are, still persisting. Czisny usually tends to peak early in the season, doing really well in the summer events and early GP events, then it's downhill from there. However, while she is still inconsistent, I do think she has gotten better over the years. No more 4-fall freeskate- she usually keeps the falling (and jumping!) to a minimum now. She finished OTP in Russia, but skated a solid SP in Canada and hung on for 2nd. If anything, she is out to prove that her US title wasn't a fluke. She had a chance at the Olympic team in 2006 but has an even better, bigger chance in 2010. This is a HUGE opportunity for Alyssa and Spokane, her 8th (?) senior nationals, could be the biggest one of her career. If she makes the Oly team what an inspiration she will be to all the 2nd-tier US skaters- to never give up and just keep improving and hanging in there.

So- what about Nationals? Repeat your SC SP at Nationals and you're in good shape- you should have the lead once again going into the FS. Focus on delivering a clean (or 1-fall) LP and your Oly chances should be fairly decent. But Alyssa has proved time and time again that she cannot handle the pressure and as the reigning Champ, I think she will crumble (just like in 2006). But I do wish her the best.

Nagasu. Well, well. Mirai is the one that I picked as potential spoiler at the beginning of the season- when she's at her best I don't think any American can beat her. Or so I thought. She did reasonably well in China, or so it appeared- she STILL gets hammered for her jumps. in Canada she skated a very cautious FS but finished barely OTP. I keep saying that if she can fix her jumps, then I think she's "The One" because she seems to have the mental game down (I mean, crying before your FS and still nailing it??). Still, one gets the impression that she is aiming more for 2014 than 2010 (or at least her coach is). Those UR calls will continue to really keep her from being as good as she could be. But it remains to be seen whether the status quo will be good enough to get on the 2010 team. Plus, she really needs a confidence booster. She's never sure of herself and I think it's starting to come across in her performances (SC LP was really bland, I thought). Be like Wagner!

What about Nationals? For her it's quite simple: Fix those jumps. Get some confidence. That's it.

Zhang. Probably the biggest surprise for many, as coming into this season many folks already had her name written on the Olympic team roster. This GP season seems to have really taken its toll on her mentally, and physically too. Perhaps she needs a break? Anyway, she started off ok at TEB, finishing a respectable 4th in a really tough field, although she didn't seem to be happy with her FS scores. Then we all know what happened at SC- she seemed to hit rock bottom. She needs a major turnaround to become a contender again, otherwise she might find herself behind some 2nd-tier skaters at Nats. As for her so-called "mule-kick" jump technique, that would take at LEAST a couple of years to fix (if it can be fixed at all). So doing that now is out of the question. She is also another one that could use some confidence but I'm more worried about her than I am about Nagasu. I don't think that confidence will come until she starts getting the scores she wants, and that's not going to happen unless she overhauls her jump technique and/or seriously raises the level of the rest of her skating to make up the point difference (like last year at 4CC's).

What about Nationals? Well, I'm not too sure what to say about Caroline here- she needs help, and FAST if she wants to make the Olympic team. Her lethargic showing at SC isn't really going to help matters much, though...I do fear that she has let her best shot at being an Olympian slip right away and quite frankly I don't think she'll get another chance in 2014.


OTHER:

Gilles. She surprised me (and many others, I think) at TEB by really coming out and showing her own, hanging tough with the "big leaguers" like Asada and Kim. I think this season will be a learning experience for her and I do not have her up in the "Contenders" section because I do not think 2010 is her time. It might be 2014, or she may peak sometime in the middle of the 2014 cycle- or she could move on to other things in life. Her SA performance was a complete disaster for her.

Hughes. Em has shown a lot of determination and fight (IMO) in taking time off college to come back and try for her 2nd Olympic team. Judging by her performance at SA, she's got a looooong way to go. But the framework IS there for a potential shocker if she can get her jumps back. Unfortunately, I don't think two months is enough time for her to do so and get back to the level she was once at. But I do have to admire her courage and willingness to just go for it and not be afraid of failure.

Liang and Bereswill. They had GP events this year (IIRC?), the former has been to Worlds before and can boast a top 10 worlds finish. But she is way too inconsistent and only got to Worlds that year because so many above her were not old enough to go. I bet she has her own goals this Nationals; if she is ambitious, one of them would be making the Oly team but I don't see it happening even under the best of circumstances (for her). If by some miracle she got in the top 2 I think she will be passed over for someone with more international experience anyway. As for Bereswill...well, hometown girl :love: not too much else to say though.

Cohen. A no-show, as expected. While various articles are hyping her excitement for Nationals, insider reports strongly indicate that her comeback attempt is not going to work out for her.

___________________

So that's my take. What's yours? I think this US Nats is going to be one of the most exciting in a long time- for me, since 2005.
 
Last edited:

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
<entire post>

Pretty much agree with your take on things. I think Sasha will be a no-show. If she had kept up her jumps over the last 3 years, she would have had a fighting chance to get in there and mix it up, but that wasn't the case and a comeback is probably a non-starter at this late date.

If Flatt and Wagner skate pretty well (and Wagner also gives a good accounting of herself at GPF even if she doesn't podium), I think that's the likely team. With Alyssa my dark horse, Mirai for 2010 even darker horse. If I was USFS, I'd feel pretty stupid at sending Alyssa and watching her melt down at major intl competition again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Mirai is the one who shows the most long-term (2014) promise and Frank's always got a strategy up his sleeve, make no mistake about that.

Zhang is possibly done after this Nationals. Short of being completely under the influence of illicit substances, I cannot imagine any USFS committee that would send her to 2010 Olympics or Worlds, or even anything else major on the intl circuit--even if by some strange confluence of events she podiums at Nationals (which I'm not expecting). Unless she REALLY takes a year off to fix her problems...and there are no signs that she and her camp are willing and able to make the effort and sacrifice required...she probably needs to retire from competitive skating and do something else with her life. Unlike most other people, I never understood the hype about her when she was a junior--thought she was overrated and overscored in spite of bad technique. All this has now caught up with her in a sad and ugly way.

Others: agree. Gilles is one to watch for future, though no guarantees. Bebe is pretty much a non-factor, Bereswill seems to be a one-off lucky winner of last year JGPF and non-competitive with the elites now in seniors. Emily I admire her personal qualities but seriously, her competitive career on the National level is essentially over, she's no longer able to keep up with the best of them (if she ever was), and she should keep moving forward with her life.
 
Last edited:

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
I think EVERONE has room for improvement. Because Rachael had the best showing, I'll pick her to discuss in depth. In her SP at SA, she fell on the 3/3 and managed only a level 2 layback. With those done properly-she could receive a 62.50+ (didn't change PCS). In the LP, she landed 7 triples, however her last spin did not count and she only managed a level 2 spiral. With adjustments, that LP could be worth 121.12+ (again, didn't change PCS). So, her total score could raise to a 183.62, probably add a few more to both SP and LP PCS marks and she's mid 180's. Pretty good!

I'd like to see how Ashley fares at the GPF to truly assess where she is. I think she showed glimmers of potential, and love her programs, but her marks are pretty low due to URs. I think she focuses too much on winning, getting ahead of herself, so unless she paces better, I think nerves will get the best of her.

I'd love for Alissa to have a strong Nats, but 3 triples shouldn't do it. She has all the pieces, she needs to believe she belongs out there. If she can come out with a strong SP, I think she'll be way ahead once again, but I think this year Rachael can close the gap if she lands the 3/3 and all else is clean. Alissa is another that has given away points with spins not being level 4's and we all know she is capable of that.
edited...Looking back at the scores from SC and what Alissa lost points in, I think the best score she could get may be low 180's. She left a couple points on the table in the SP and probably close to 15 points in the LP...she REALLY needs to land those jumps!!!

Mirai has shown she COULD skate a lights out SP, and has tremendous potential to be the next Star, but she HAS to fix her URs to be in the mix. I believe she has it in her, but I don't know if there's enough tim before Nationals.

I would love for Caroline to show up on fire and prove to the naysayers she's not done. I do feel this season is over for her, but a strong Nationals should put her in good stead for the next quad. I hope she has a wake up call, reevaluates and gets her career on the right track to 2014.

Right now, I expect the above 5 are a given for the last flight. If Sasha comes back, insert her as well. If not, Alexe (especially if she can repeat her TEB SP). Maybe Becky if not Alexe. I just don't see Emily making it, sorry RD, or Bebe.
 
Last edited:

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think EVERONE has room for improvement. Because Rachael had the best showing, I'll pick her to discuss in depth. In her SP at SA, she fell on the 3/3 and managed only a level 2 layback. With those done properly-she could receive a 62.50+ (didn't change PCS). In the LP, she landed 7 triples, however her last spin did not count and she only managed a level 2 spiral. With adjustments, that LP could be worth 121.12+ (again, didn't change PCS). So, her total score could raise to a 183.62, probably add a few more to both SP and LP PCS marks and she's mid 180's. Pretty good!

I'd like to see how Ashley fares at the GPF to truly assess where she is. I think she showed glimmers of potential, and love her programs, but her marks are pretty low due to URs. I think she focuses too much on winning, getting ahead of herself, so unless she paces better, I think nerves will get the best of her.

I'm in agreement here. My concern for Rachel is that she should make sure that she paces herself to peak at the right time. The mistakes are hopefully easy to fix. I also agree about Wagner. My hopes aren't too high for GPF, but on the other hand, say she does get excited and carried away at the GPF and then slips up. Perhaps it might calm her down a little come Nationals? Hmm. Food for thought.

I'd love for Alissa to have a strong Nats, but 3 triples shouldn't do it. She has all the pieces, she needs to believe she belongs out there. If she can come out with a strong SP, I think she'll be way ahead once again, but I think this year Rachael can close the gap if she lands the 3/3 and all else is clean. Alissa is another that has given away points with spins not being level 4's and we all know she is capable of that.

Rachel has never been a really strong SP skater IMO. If she can hit that 3-3 and perform her SP like at SA, then perhaps she can break 60 and be right in it. She could also capitalize on others' mistakes if she is one of the last skaters in the FS. Or, she could lay down the gauntlet and put the pressure on Czisny (with all due respect to Alyssa, best possible situation for the other skaters, particularly if she's leading), or Wagner, or whoever else is ahead of her.


I would love for Caroline to show up on fire and prove to the naysayers she's not done. I do feel this season is over for her, but a strong Nationals should put her in good stead for the next quad. I hope she has a wake up call, reevaluates and gets her career on the right track to 2014.

Two months is a lot of time, and the GP is almost always a poor indicator of what will happen later in the season. I look at skaters like Meissner who never really shone at the GPs but improved enough to be right in the mix at the big events.

Right now, I expect the above 5 are a given for the last flight. If Sasha comes back, insert her as well. If not, Alexe (especially if she can repeat her TEB SP). Maybe Becky if not Alexe. I just don't see Emily making it, sorry RD, or Bebe.

First, the bolded comment- I don't either. It's not like I was predicting her to do that much anyway. But we'll see if she has any of her big sis in her come January. :biggrin:

I don't see Gilles, Cohen, Bereswill or Liang being a factor (hence why I put them in the "Other" category).
 
Last edited:

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Pretty much agree with both of you. I'd say Alissa is the wildcard and Mirai the darkhorse though....at this point I think Mirai has more talent than Alissa, she is much faster, her jumps are bigger, and she falls less. Alissa has been getting better though, and if only she had done well at worlds one of the two times she went maybe things would look better for her. But I mean, say she makes the Olympic team, watch this be the one time she pulls through and skates her best. Granted, I don't think that will be enough to get on the podium there, but I could see her coming in somewhere between 4th and 10th with good skates. Nationals might be too high pressure for her though, esp being defending champ, so she might pull her usual there and not make the team. Rachael I'd say is a near lock, then Ashley and Alissa are next in line-Ashley with a slight edge for now, then probably Mirai, though if she rotates her jumps and presents she is easily as good if not better than the rest of them. Hard to know about her though, esp where she's growing so fast, I hope she does well, her teenage angst is worrisome. Zhang is out of the picture it seems, I doubt Sasha will come back and if she does she'll probably fall on or double her jumps. After SA i'm starting to wonder about Alexe...sometimes she's great, but seems to be very hot and cold.

One fear: If the Oly team is Mirai and Alissa and they implode. I love them so much as skaters though so I would be happy if they got chosen, but the chance of poor placement is high unfortunately. What do people think the likelyhood of team Mirai Alissa is?
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What do people think the likelyhood of team Mirai Alissa is?

Well, in order for that to happen, either a) both have the SOHL or b) Flatt has a meltdown or WD (IMO, that's the only way she takes herself out of contention). Or both happen.

I'd rather Nagasu than Czisny but honestly, I don't think either one gives us a really solid chance at top 5.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Yeahhh. I've never seen Rachael have a meltdown before so that is doubtful. I just watched her worlds performances from last year again and the fact that she came in 5th at her first worlds is super impressive...especially because she did not skate her best there, no 3-3 and she was a shaky on a couple of her jump landings, but she still managed to do well. If Rachael on an off day can come in 5th at worlds and skate well enough at SA to scare Yu Na Kim into making mistakes and win the freeskate, then she should have no trouble coming in 1st or 2nd at nationals considering the competition there.

Czisny. No more 4-fall freeskate- she usually keeps the falling (and jumping!) to a minimum now.
I don't think Alissa has ever fallen 4 times in a freeskate....maybe I'm wrong though. Before she probably averaged 2-3 falls in the freeskate and now that average has been lowered to about 1-2. Her problem though is that when she falls, she falls hard and rarely completes her rotations.....so she loses points for not rotating and falling and her GOE. The other thing is that her skating has gotten slower, and resultantly, her jumps that she lands are often called UR. I mean, in her 2007 and 2009 worlds long programs, I thought she had nailed it, both times falling just once I believe, then the scores came up and they were low because so many jumps were downgraded. Her and Mirai are similar in this respect, though Mirai falls less and has better technique and speed, and her flexibility, spins, and lines are all of about the same quality. Alissa expresses much more with her face and body and her maturity and good carriage help her really present....that's the only reason she beats Mirai. And actually, Mirai didn't get any of her triples downgraded at SC and Alissa got 3 triples downgraded (2 were falls).

I think Alissa should get a new coach who will just make her jump all the time. She is a very athletic girl, I don't know why her jumps are puny and often not rotated, you'd think they'd come easy to her. Plus Julie has been her coach for FOREVER and seems like her mom more than her coach. Caroline probably should find someone new too. They are both lovely, but need jump boot camp! :laugh:
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
I just wanted to come to Ashley's defence (I know, I'm going to get a bad rep at this forum being the endless Ashley defender); she's really been working on fully rotating those jumps and is not at all that prone to them as she was last year; here's a quick comparison of the top 5 US Ladies after checking the protocols:

Caroline Zhang:
2 downgrades at TEB (both LP)
3 downgrades at SC (1 SP, 2 LP)

Ashley Wagner:
1 downgrade at RC (LP)
1 downgrade at NHK (SP)

Alissa Czisny:
3 downgrades at RC (LP)
3 downgrades at SC (LP)

Rachael Flatt:
No downgrades at COC
No downgrades at SA

Mirai Nagasu:
5 downgrades at COC (LP..ouch)
2 downgrades at SC (LP)

Ashley does get dinged on edge calls... I didn't make a comparison on US Ladies on that matter.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't think Alissa has ever fallen 4 times in a freeskate....

But hasn't she? I remember a specific event- I think it was a GP or so a couple years ago where she did fall 4 times...bad even by her standards. But it wasn't a real surprise, given that she usually fell multiple times in performances anyway.


Trewyn said:
whole post

Well, I do want her to do well- almost as much as you do. ;)
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Trewyn: I don't think you have to feel defensive where Ashley is concerned. I think most of us want to see her succeed. This is just a thread about where we feel the Ladies are at this point in the season. So far, she seems to be on par with Alissa, not Rachael. She has had some great showings in the SP and then faltered in the LP. Rachael has shown she COULD be a front runner of US Ladies' if she goes clean because she has cleaned up her "e" calls, lands 7 triples and has had her 3/3 ratified.

Looking at Ashley's 2 GP events this season, I think she did well, just leaves SO much on the table. She easily lost 12 points on jumps in NHK. In her LP, she had 2 Level 3 spins and a Level 3 spiral. And her step was a level 2, so there is a lot of room for improvement. In Russia, she did a bit better overall, but still only managed a 163.97 total score. Given Rachael is set up to score over 180 points if she is clean, Ashley has her work cut out for her. She's been changing her jump layout, so hopefully she finds one that works best for her. But she needs to get her spins and spiral up to a Level 4, and her FW Level 3 to max her points better.

Obviously anything can happen from competition to competition. If I were to go solely based on this fall, I would think Rachael is a front runner, and Alissa and Ashley are fighting out for #2. But we've learned many times the GPS is not a good gauge for the rest of the season!
 
Last edited:

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
If Rachael on an off day can come in 5th at worlds and skate well enough at SA to scare Yu Na Kim into making mistakes and win the freeskate, then she should have no trouble coming in 1st or 2nd at nationals considering the competition there.

I don't think Kim's problems in the LP at Skate America were a result of being shaken by Flatt's good LP. She kept tying and untying her boots before she took her starting position for the LP, just as Rochette did before the LP at Skate Canada. For whatever reasons, both Yu-Na and Joannie were not secure with their skates at Skate America and Skate Canada before the LP. Besides, Yu-Na skated right after Miki Ando at 2009 Worlds and wasn't spooked by Ando's impressive performance, and Ando has a more impressive resume than Flatt at this point.
 
Last edited:

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Plus, there were rumors even at TEB that Yu-Na was struggling with her flip and coping with the pressure. She was in tears after the SP and she set a record there. Then at SA Orser said she had been having "mini-meltdowns" over the 3flip. I can imagine it's tough to skater after the home favorite no matter who you are, but I doubt it was Rachael who unsettled Yu-Na.
 
Last edited:

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I just wanted to come to Ashley's defence (I know, I'm going to get a bad rep at this forum being the endless Ashley defender)

I don't think you'll get a bad rep... Ashley is awesome and well liked here :rock:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't think you'll get a bad rep... Ashley is awesome and well liked here :rock:

It's fine. No biggie. As long as there's no putdowns
of posters involved (A few of the Kwan and Cohen defenders are constantly guilty of this ;) )

also, I'd like to remind people that this is a thread about the American ladies, not their international competition, which likely deserves a separate thread.
 
Last edited:

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
But hasn't she? I remember a specific event- I think it was a GP or so a couple years ago where she did fall 4 times...bad even by her standards. But it wasn't a real surprise, given that she usually fell multiple times in performances anyway.

Maybe you are thinking of the 07-08 season, that was particularly rough. She might have fallen 4 times at Cup of China where she came in 9th but i'm not sure. I know at 08 nationals she fell once in the short and messed up her other 2 jumps, then in the long she fell 3 times and the jumps she didn't fall on were pretty scary looking. I think it was because the jump re-learning process takes 2 years and that was only after 1 year. She's doing better now though, esp in the SP which she now nails nearly every time. Now that's she's national champ though we'll have to see how the pressure effects her, especially if she wins the short program which she probably will. With one skate between her and the olympics, it will be interesting to see how she does, especially if Flatt throws it down like she did at SA right before she skates. Maybe this is Alissa's year though, she certainly has been patient waiting.

Also I'm wondering if anyone knows if Alissa, Ashley, or Mirai are planning on putting in a 3-3 in their programs? I know Mirai used to, but I think I've seen Alissa do it in competition once (years ago-it was downgraded) and I don't think I've seen Ashley ever do one in competition. Caroline's 3-3 is usually downgraded while Rachael's is not so if Rachael is the only one to do a ratified 3-3 that should help her stand out among the others. If Caroline abandons hers b/c it keeps getting downgraded Rachael may be the only US lady to do a 3-3. Plus she does it in the short and long and also tends to do a 3lz-2t-2lo at the end of her LP which she rarely misses. Where Mirai got her doubles downgraded at SC she might abandon most of her combinations, Alissa usually only does two 2-jumps combos and she only tacks on 2toe not 2loop, Ashley tacks on double loops which I assume are worth more than a double toe (anyone know for sure?) and though Caroline does 3-3s and 3-2-2 she's having issues so I don't expect her to come in 1st or 2nd. Maybe she will though. So yeah, Rachael really does have a leg up technically on all the others
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
It's fine. No biggie. As long as there's no putdowns
of posters involved (A few of the Kwan and Cohen defenders are constantly guilty of this ;) )

also, I'd like to remind people that this is a thread about the American ladies, not their international competition, which likely deserves a separate thread.

I am warming up to Ashley and like her programs this season.
I only wonder about her ability to compete. Miki was totally beatable at both of her GP's and I think a young Michelle or Sasha would have taken a gift when it was handed to them.

If a skater can't rise to the occassion then they have very limited potential for winning international medals.

Kimmie showed us how you can seize a moment, and she did it more than once in her career.

I am waiting for the new girls to show us that they just don't want to win - but also know how to win.

Now if you had defended Emily - that might have brought out the bashers ;) :laugh
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
It's fine. No biggie. As long as there's no putdowns
of posters involved

Definitely no putdowns! I definitely know and feel Ashley is liked on this forum :) I just wanted to point out that she URs less than she used to :). I just felt like I was posting too much about Ashley and I would start sounding like a broken record. But I actually do like lots of other skaters :).


Also I'm wondering if anyone knows if Alissa, Ashley, or Mirai are planning on putting in a 3-3 in their programs? I know Mirai used to, but I think I've seen Alissa do it in competition once (years ago-it was downgraded) and I don't think I've seen Ashley ever do one in competition.

I do think Ashley at least plans to get a triple-triple in her program by Nats. She's landed a triple lutz-triple loop combo at 2008 Nats both in the SP and LP. I also think she landed that combo at Skate Canada 2007 but it got downgraded. She now has abandoned the loop combo (I think) because of the fear of it being downgraded (look at Miki Ando); it's such a difficult combo so I guess I understand that she just doesn't bother anymore since it nearly always gets downgraded in competition. She intended to have a triple flip-triple toe in her programs last Nats and apparantly landed a great one at the Skate Wilmington Send-off but after her disaster SP at Nats it didn't happen that season. I *hope* she'll have it this year, because she might need it, especially if she wants to beat Rachael.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Mirai has added a 2a/3t this year. I doubt she'll attempt a 3z/3t at Nats-she is capable of scoring in the 60's if she is clean w/o the 3/3, so may be better off sticking with that plan.

Alissa was working on a 3f/3t but I doubt she has had much success with it. The only 3/3 I recall her landing in competition is a 3t/3t. Right now, she does have 3 combos-3lz/2t, 3lp/2t and a 2a^2a sequence.

I didn't realize Mirai doesn't include the salchow, I thought she did??? Is this a recent move? Alissa doesn't do the salchow either. Rachael and Caroline do all the triples (minus 3a). Ashley hasn't shown us a 3toe attempt this year, but I suspect it is intended to be in combo with the 3f, so we'll see it when ready!
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
I just wanted to come to Ashley's defence (I know, I'm going to get a bad rep at this forum being the endless Ashley defender); she's really been working on fully rotating those jumps and is not at all that prone to them as she was last year; here's a quick comparison of the top 5 US Ladies after checking the protocols:

Caroline Zhang:
2 downgrades at TEB (both LP)
3 downgrades at SC (1 SP, 2 LP)

Ashley Wagner:
1 downgrade at RC (LP)
1 downgrade at NHK (SP)

Alissa Czisny:
3 downgrades at RC (LP)
3 downgrades at SC (LP)

Rachael Flatt:
No downgrades at COC
No downgrades at SA

Mirai Nagasu:
5 downgrades at COC (LP..ouch)
2 downgrades at SC (LP)

Ashley does get dinged on edge calls... I didn't make a comparison on US Ladies on that matter.

First - Defend away... it makes for much more enjoyable reading! Plus, it gives those of us who haven't been paying attention a reason to go back and really evaluate a skater who is not on our radar. At least that's true for me. :yes:

Looking at your list of downgrades, it makes me very nervous for the US ladies at 2010 Worlds... if this group of talent cannot figure out how to fix their technique, then the US is in for a couple of bumpy years in this sport. Very unfortunate.

It's fine. No biggie. As long as there's no putdowns
of posters involved (A few of the Kwan and Cohen defenders are constantly guilty of this ;) )

Oh, stop your whining... you can handle it. :p:p

Anywho - back OT.

I see Rachael and Ashley making this two-person team with Alyssa as the alternate because out of the top five, these are the two who seem the best equiped to thrive under the very special pressure that is the olympics. Young skaters who can embrace it, tend to do well and without the pressure to medal, they also throw down skates of their lives... which is in my opinion that which makes the games so very cool... I also see this as the best combo to earn three spots at the following Worlds - which in the US's case is the biggest event of the year.

IMO, it would be better for both if neither Mirai or Caroline make the trip to Vancouver because you just don't get the feeling that either would be excited to just make the team...both give off a vibe of "win or die" which is great when you have the other pieces in place and unfortunately neither do - yet. It would be a sad day if Caroline hangs up her skates before 2014... she is so talented and with a little work could be amongst the best in the world. Even with the mule kick.

Plus, I'm sick of skaters that hang around for just a year or two and then fade away...ala Kimmie & Emily. Doesn't it seem like just yesterday these two young women were being touted as the US's best chance of medals against Mao? But like my hubby always says - that's why we play the game...
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Alissa was working on a 3f/3t but I doubt she has had much success with it. The only 3/3 I recall her landing in competition is a 3t/3t. Right now, she does have 3 combos-3lz/2t, 3lp/2t and a 2a^2a sequence.

I didn't realize Mirai doesn't include the salchow, I thought she did??? Is this a recent move? Alissa doesn't do the salchow either. Rachael and Caroline do all the triples (minus 3a). Ashley hasn't shown us a 3toe attempt this year, but I suspect it is intended to be in combo with the 3f, so we'll see it when ready!

I didn't know a sequence counted as a combo, cool. And Alissa did 3lz-3t at skate america in 2005 where she got silver, but i'm pretty sure it got downgraded and then she abandoned it. I don't know why she'd work on 3f-3t when she has so much trouble with her flip, she'd be better off trying 3lz-3t again because her lutzes always take off on the right edge and she rarely falls on them (it's her best jump), plus it's worth more points than a flip. Only Yu Na does 3lz-3t right now...

About the salchow....I wonder if Mirai and Alissa don't use it on purpose. It's worth less points than any other triple (except toe?) so they are probably better off doing another flip or lutz instead of a salchow. Then again, salchow is the easiest jump for most people. I think Alissa should put a salchow in place of her loop though, her loop is almost always UR, and she has such a strange take off. Mirai might also want to consider the salchow because she keeps getting edge calls on her flip and lutz and therefore would be better off doing a 3sal even though it's worth less points on its own. Mao doesn't do salchow either....why??? I thought it was the first triple people learn
 
Top