Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP | Page 23 | Golden Skate

Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Let's make it clear. Yuna didn't make two major mistakes here but just one (singled flip). The other mistake, in my opinion, was made by the technical panel.

Have you seen her SP, by the way? Her SP was great except the poped flip.

I can not agree more with so_proud.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Let's make it clear. Yuna didn't make two major mistakes here but just one (singled flip). The other mistake, in my opinion, was made by the technical panel.

Have you seen her SP, by the way? Her SP was great except the poped flip.

I have seen the SPs of Yu-Na, Miki, and Joannie (and I'm in the process of watching Alena's but waiting on it to buffer). I guess more than anything, I'm just so frustrated over Yu-Na's problems with the 3flip this season; 3 times now, it has failed her. I'm frustrated that Joannie is not skating up to her capabilities too. Yu-Na is truly a beautiful lady with wonderful expression and exquisite speed and playful, willowy quality to her musical interpretation and body line. She captures the character of this music so well and she deservingly gets high levels on her elements! I agree that aside from the two jump errors, it really was a beautifully skated program. It just saddens me to see these skaters not skate up to their potential.
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
You should buy a pair of glasses. You need to corrrect your eye-sight. Do you have a decent health insurance to cover it?

Knock it off with the personal attacks.

How can you explain the gap btw technical specialist's DG call and 1.6 GOE from 9 judges?

Because the judges can give or take GOEs away by their own call of UR. The tech specialist can call UR but his own judgement and it'll show up on protocols BUT the judges will not see the UR mark. Thus, they'll have to decide on their own and give or take GOEs accordingly. This removes the double penalty.

That's what people have been asking for last season, to remove the double penalty and take away some from for the tech caller.

You gotta be kidding. I see huge gap between Miki's mechanical/boring style and Yuna's elegant/exciting style. Are you kidding? Did you forget about the difference in the score when Yuna won 2009 world title? She is in her class of her own.

Style has influence but there's no literal score component for that. Did you forget that 2009 worlds judging was rather chillaxed in comparison to the year before? From Joannie's 69 to Mao's ratified 3-3, despite it being clearly URed. The year before, the judging was considerably harsher, except Carolina got the benefit of it in Europe.

You're missing museksk8r's and Red Dog's point. The SP is the program where everyone is essentially doing the same reqs (jumps may vary). It true is a check list program, both in the CoP and in the 6.0. The point is that, UR aside, Yu-na missed the flip. Steps into a solo triple is a requirement. What they're saying is that her score is still rather high, despite missing a requirement.
 

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
I have seen the SPs of Yu-Na, Miki, and Joannie (and I'm in the process of watching Alena's but waiting on it to buffer). I guess more than anything, I'm just so frustrated over Yu-Na's problems with the 3flip this season; 3 times now, it has failed her. I'm frustrated that Joannie is not skating up to her capabilities too. Yu-Na is truly a beautiful lady with wonderful expression and exquisite speed and playful, willowy quality to her musical interpretation and body line. She captures the character of this music so well and she deservingly gets high levels on her elements! I agree that aside from the two jump errors, it really was a beautifully skated program. It just saddens me to see these skaters not skate up to their potential.

museksk8r. Please provide the basis of your accusation that Yuna made two mistakes yesterday. It does not make sense at all.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
museksk8r. Please provide the basis of your accusation that Yuna made two mistakes yesterday. It does not make sense at all.

The tech panel downgraded her; it's said and done. Tomorrow with the LP is a new day. Yu-Na must put this behind her and skate her best. End of story!
 

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Knock it off with the personal attacks.



Because the judges can give or take GOEs away by their own call of UR. The tech specialist can call UR but his own judgement and it'll show up on protocols BUT the judges will not see the UR mark. Thus, they'll have to decide on their own and give or take GOEs accordingly. This removes the double penalty.

That's what people have been asking for last season, to remove the double penalty and take away some from for the tech caller.



Style has influence but there's no literal score component for that. Did you forget that 2009 worlds judging was rather chillaxed in comparison to the year before? From Joannie's 69 to Mao's ratified 3-3, despite it being clearly URed. The year before, the judging was considerably harsher, except Carolina got the benefit of it in Europe.

You're missing museksk8r's and Red Dog's point. The SP is the program where everyone is essentially doing the same reqs (jumps may vary). It true is a check list program, both in the CoP and in the 6.0. The point is that, UR aside, Yu-na missed the flip. Steps into a solo triple is a requirement. What they're saying is that her score is still rather high, despite missing a requirement.

Jumps are not the only requirement for SP. There are spins, steps and PCSs. You are still missing my point. I am talking about DGing her jump.
 

DragonPhoenix

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Er... Sorry, but I can't possibly agree with you.
I suggest you get a chance to see them compete right at the scene.
If you can't tell the difference after that, I suggest you go see an eye doctor ASAP. I was totally blown away by Yu-na's skating. Faster, higher, more powerful than anybody else. Such a beautiful skater.

I agree with Marie_S. Before I saw the live competition of Miki and Yuna at 2008 SA, I thought that they were in the same league. However, it was not. There is clearly huge gap btw two. Of course I liked Miki's powerful jumps and skatings.

Oh really, I suggest you open your mind a little before telling others to see an eye doctor. Maybe your eyes could use a little adjusting as well. There is such a thing as different taste, although I can see you forgot about that.

In my opinion, they are both great skaters, and there are other great skaters as well. My favorite is Miki, but I like both Miki and YuNa.

Here are quotes from people who saw both Miki and YuNa at last Worlds.

You’re welcome to read the full reports at the Live - Random posting/musings from L.A and Practice Reports-3/22 in this forum


Here are some quotes


Raatkirani said:
Standouts to me were:

1. Miki Ando: just fabulous. Very elegant and spot on with her jumps. The first competitor to hit the triple-triple combo. Left me breathless that she did it! Her doing the combo was almost like a statement "Move over girlies, the big guns are in the building." A relief after the number of falls that I saw that day.


5. Yu-Na Kim: fantastic!! Really on fire, technically superb, deserves the top spot, no doubt. Her triple-triple combo was authoritative and confident. Her skate was perfection and she looked well-trained.

and from the practice reports

Ms.Anthrope said:
Ando looked wonderful and her posture & stroking, which look so labored on TV, didn't look bad in person. Didn't do a whole of jumps but they were big & nicely landed when she did attempt them.


Penny said:
Miki looked great. Her jumps are so big and she is so slender and pretty in real life.

These are just a few. There are so many others who have reported similar things when they saw Miki live.

That is a fact.
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
It just saddens me to see these skaters not skate up to their potential.

Most of the top ladies have at least four years of CoP programs and training under their belts; some even a bit more. The CoP (combined with the skaters' competitive drives) is physically exhausting and of course, during the Olympic year, athletes train harder, instead of smarter. The fatigue is going to set in eventually. After this season, I wouldn't be surprised if the next season is going to start rather slow.
 

Phoenix347

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
I almost feel like this thread should be now closed... so much angry back and forth. I don't like seeing this here.
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
I'm frustrated that Joannie is not skating up to her capabilities too.

I agree that Joannie has not skated up to her capabilities this year. She has been to Asia three times this season already though and it is around a 14 hour flight to Japan. Not an excuse but just pointing it out the travel and jet leg could be a factor.

Also, even if Joannie doesn't been skating up to her potential I love that she is a fighter - she fought through that short program! Just as she fought through her long program in China and fought through bad take offs on some of her lutzes - for example; last year's short at Worlds and this year's Skate Canada Lp. It is an admirable quality in her - even if a program isn't perfect I love to see her fight for every jump and landing. :)
 

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
The tech panel downgraded her; it's said and done. Tomorrow with the LP is a new day. Yu-Na must put this behind her and skate her best. End of story!

museksk8r.

If you get a ticket which you dont deserve to get, what would you do? Can you just forget about it and move on? I am not the person who can forget about unfairness. It is really frustrating if you say me to do so.

Unfairness can happen again if I dont fix it now.
When I identify a problem. I need to fix it. That's my attitude.

If you dont want to talk about it anymore, just stop writting threads. It is THAT simple. I am not happy with the decision and I will keep talking and complaining about it until it is fixed.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Most of the top ladies have at least four years of CoP programs and training under their belts; some even a bit more. The CoP (combined with the skaters' competitive drives) is physically exhausting and of course, during the Olympic year, athletes train harder, instead of smarter. The fatigue is going to set in eventually. After this season, I wouldn't be surprised if the next season is going to start rather slow.

I just hope they all find their way by the time the Olympics begin. I guess we fans just have to be patient for our beloved athletes to peak and show us what they really are capable of in Vancouver. *HOPES*
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Yuna's 3-3 downgrade was bogus, but that's hardly the CoP's biggest problem. Last year's nationals, when Alissa beat Rachael, I was so mad. How many successful triples did Alissa do in her long? 3. How many did Rachael do? 7. NBD. Also Joannie's massive scores at SC, 182.90 after doing a LP with 3 clean triples? Yeah... And Laura Lepisto beating Mirai? I think Laura did 2 clean triples!

The ladies short here is another example. I though Ashley, Akiko, Leonova, and Miki (Joannie maybe too, though she had a few more mistakes) should all have gotten basically the same score. There programs were all pretty much equal and yet there is a 12 point gap between Ashley and Miki. Am I the only one who thinks the judging has become unpredictable and very random?
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Jumps are not the only requirement for SP. There are spins, steps and PCSs. You are still missing my point. I am talking about DGing her jump.

No. I'm not still missing your point. I'm elaborating on RD and museks8r's points. In fact, it seems like you're selectively reading when the answers are already given but let's go through what I can:

1. Yes there are other reqs in the SP. The fact is that she missed her jump and jumps are bigger point getters for the SP. That's why R.D. and musesks8r are confused.

2. Her 3T was DG but she still got +Goe because she didn't have the double penalty. How is that so hard to understand? I already explained it.
 
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Phoenix347

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Yuna's 3-3 downgrade was bogus, but that's hardly the CoP's biggest problem. Last year's nationals, when Alissa beat Rachael, I was so mad. How many successful triples did Alissa do in her long? 3. How many did Rachael do? 7. NBD. Also Joannie's massive scores at SC, 182.90 after doing a LP with 3 clean triples? Yeah... And Laura Lepisto beating Mirai? I think Laura did 2 clean triples!

The ladies short here is another example. I though Ashley, Akiko, Leonova, and Miki (Joannie maybe too, though she had a few more mistakes) should all have gotten basically the same score. There programs were all pretty much equal and yet there is a 12 point gap between Ashley and Miki. Am I the only one who thinks the judging has become unpredictable and very random?

I think you do have some points here. Lepisto should not have beaten Mirai in SC. Akiko was probably too underscored... as she often is. However, I do think Miki was a step better then those ladies over all.
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
I just hope they all find their way by the time the Olympics begin. I guess we fans just have to be patient for our beloved athletes to peak and show us what they really are capable of in Vancouver. *HOPES*

Me too. They can't control when they peak but certainly proper body prep can help. Then again, during the night of their competitions, I wouldn't be surprised if adrenaline kicks in and eliminates any fatigue.

If you get a ticket which you dont deserve to get, what would you do? Can you just forget about it and move on? I am not the person who can forget about unfairness. It is really frustrating if you say me to do so.

In the US, you can petition the ticket in court and the fine will get reduced if the judge finds the ticket unreasonable. Most tickets are hardly ever erased. :p
 

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
No. I'm not still missing your point. I'm elaborating on RD and museks8r's points. In fact, it seems like you're selectively reading when the answers are already given but let's go through what I can:

1. The SP reqs are: a combo jump consisting of at least one triple jump.(either a 3-2 or a 3-3 but not 3-1s), steps into a solo triple, a double axel and a layback spin. These are the traditional requirements of the SP. Of course, you'll add in the spins, steps, and spirals but the aforementioned reqs in the previous sentences are the defining elements of the SP. The fact is that she missed her jump and jumps are bigger point getters. That's why R.D. and musesks8r are confused.

2. Her 3T was DG but she still got +Goe because she didn't have the double penalty. How is that so hard to understand? I already explained it.

Yuna did miss her triple flip. Other than that, all of her performances were as great as before. Let's not talk about whether 65 is good score or not for now. To me it is not as important as DG call.

Let me ask you one very important question. You appear to have decent knowledge about figure skating. Can you explain why Yuna's 3-3 jump is down graded to 3-2? Are you agreeing with techinical specialist call? or not? If you do, please provide me the reason. Majority of people can not get the DG call. Also more frustrating thing is inconsistency. Please do not provide lame excuse that human can make mistake.
 

figurejennah

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Yuna did miss her triple flip. Other than that, all of her performances were as great as before. Let's not talk about whether 65 is good score or not for now. To me it is not as important as DG call.

Let me ask you one very important question. You appear to have decent knowledge about figure skating. Can you explain why Yuna's 3-3 jump is down graded to 3-2? Are you agreeing with techinical specialist call? or not? If you do, please provide me the reason. Majority of people can not get the DG call. Also more frustrating thing is inconsistency. Please do not provide lame excuse that human can make mistake.

Rossdale, can't you see that some people here are in fact absolutely thrilled that Yuna got downgrades? Why do you think Yuna is the only one who has "Is Yuna's score inflated" thread....? :rofl:

I can't agree with you more about this DG issue. It's unfair and shameful. I honestly think that if Yuna should be punished with downgrades on her beautiful 3-3, then no one should ever get full credit for her 3-3. I asked earlier if there was an example of a better 3-3 than Yuna's and no one has replied. The simple truth is that Yuna's 3-3 is perfect, and it will always be. It is not just my personal opinion, and I have quotes to back it up from Shizuka Arakawa, Kristi Yamaguki, Scott Hamilton, Michelle Kwan, etc. I am sure these people know about skating just a little. lol

I, too, don't care about her score, because it is true that she missed the 3Flip. However, the fact that she got DG really depresses me.

Why don't they go ahead and give level 1 for Caroline and Alissa's spin and spiral sequence? :rock: Woo hoo
 
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DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Let me ask you one very important question. You appear to have decent knowledge about figure skating. Can you explain why Yuna's 3-3 jump is down graded to 3-2? Are you agreeing with techinical specialist call? or not? If you do, please provide me the reason. Majority of people can not get the DG call. Also more frustrating thing is inconsistency. Please do not provide lame excuse that human can make mistake.

The reasoning is her 3T looks within the grey area upon landing. She slightly wiggles her blade when she lands on her 3T. I keep watching the replays and I think I'm going to agree. Sometimes even two-footed jumps are DG. Yu-na's 3lz-3toe was the best at Eric Bompard so far.

I'm even sure what you mean by "Majority of people can not get the DG call." Many do.
 
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