Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP | Page 13 | Golden Skate

Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
But can it easily be converted to 1-2 decimal points?

It's not like the ISU is counting the degree of rotations with lasers or other extremely exacting tracking technology. The ISU is using humans to determine the degree of rotation with their eyes in a limited amount of time. Maybe you have the benefit of the time to watch Yu-Na's 3-3 closeup in super-high HD on a huge screen 50 times before you make your 1-2 decimal point calculations.

The tech callers don't.


It is a lame excuse for poor judgement. If human can not do the fair call, please ask machines to take over their jobs. It is cheap to buy high qulality HD TV and just watch it. It is non-sense
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
:disapp:

Where should I start? Should I even bother?
Start anywhere, and please "bother". I would like to hear.

I just watched the YuNa video, I'm happy that YuNa popped her 3Flip-->1Flip if she didn't feel confident about nailing it (way better than falling and hurting herself.)

I feel that often times, this season, lady skaters got UR calls for jumps that were slightly UR'd but not by more than 1/4. It is disheartening for the skaters and unfortunate for the sport, but I accepted that that's how stringent CoP was going to be when the call could go either way.

However, YuNa's 3Lz-3T looks almost completely rotated to my naked eyes. So I don't get the UR call on the 3T at all. YuNa has had less rotation at another competition this year and was not downgraded. Here, the flow out of the jump wasn't completely smooth, but I don't see the underrotation. Not even by 45 degrees...
 

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Yu Na not in first? Joannie in 4th? :eek: So much for Ladies being predictable.

Eh that 3-3 looks fine to me. Weird downgrade (maybe there's a very strict tech controller).

I can't tell edge calls, URs and levels very well either, unless it's an outright mistake. I will honestly tell you I still don't know what makes a Lvl 4 Step Sequence and what doesn't. And of course, there are our favourite DGs, ! and e.

Couple days ago, I was arguing on FSU that FS is highly prone to subjectivity because of PCS.

Well, now I'll take my words back and say even TES is subjective too.

Hasn't the ISU learnt from the recent WC qualifying match between France and Ireland, with Henry's controversial handball? With all the technology at their disposal, you'd thought Speedy and co would use it (do they? don't really know). Hmph.

OTOH, this makes for an exciting LP! I hope everyone skates better tomorrow (don't beat yourself up Yu Na, you're a GREAT skater and you CAN land that damn 3 Flip. Believe Yu Na and go kill the LP!)


----------------------

It was not a strict tech. If it were, she/he should have down graded Miki combination jump as well. Yuna's 3-3 jump was not even in a grey area. It was clearly an excellent and fully rotated jump.
 

figurejennah

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
I agree that ethnicity/race plays in to many things, but I just really hated the fact that you jokingly referred to a Japanese lady. I see your argument in the level 1s & all, but still it sounded really racist to me & that's one thing my dad taught me from his experience growing up in Korea as a mixed child. Don't ever assume or snub someone based on race/ethnicity or looks. And I definitely understand how Koreans & Japanese always have an underlying tension with the historical past & current ones like Dokdo, but still both are part of my heritage & I hate it when there is so much hatred going on. And, I mentioned Yuna recieving a +1 GOE at SA for the LP because I saw a shameful comment saying that judge MUST be Korean because all the other judges gave her minus GOEs. I'm not saying whether a GOE is deserved or undeserved, but people make so much assumptions out of biases.

Hey, I am sorry to hear that you thought I was making racist comments, but it wasn't like OMG, Japan raped Korean women during WWII, so they must hate Yuna kim and needed to downgrade her jumps. Eermm... no.

If anything, it will be Yuna vs. other Strong Japanese ladies. Also, I understand why you hate to hear about Korea and Japan's past issues, but really there is sadly absolutely nothing you can do about it.. It is really up to the governments to fix it because the deep hatred between these two nations are just huge. All I can say is maybe Japan apologize to the world like the Germans did and try to make changes instead of hiding the history? (I am trying to be neutral here, since I got both Korean and Japanese friends! )Come on, just because Germans would hate to hear it, it doesn't mean the world will stop talking about what Nazis did. (And, I was greatly impressed when I visited Berlin that there were all these WWII memorials and museums... And I made tons of sweet German friends! :) )

Please, I didn't mention anything about the history, so let's not bring it to skating?? And I really thought today's tech was that Japanese lady Junko, and she was not, and people corrected me (she was referee or something.) It was the tech who gave Yuna "e" in 2008 COC.
 
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Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
In my opinion, the matters are quite clear. The judges gave Kim +1.6 GOE on her 3Lz-3t. Meanwhile, the tech specialist downgraded the same jump. Is it normal for the judges to give that kind of GOE for an underrotated jump? I don't think so. The tech specialist was clearly WRONG, or the nine judges were. Nine against one. Simple mathematics.

It's because rules were changed since last season. Last season judges saw the scores that tech specialist gave, and knew about UR, edge calls, law levels, etc. And they gave negative GOE's for DG jumps because they knew that it was DG. This season judges don't see scores that tech specialist gave to a skater when decide what GOE they'll give and it's not their job to decide is jump was UR more or less 1/4. that's why UR jumps now may have positive GOEs
 

hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
Junko is a terrible judge. I do not find any consistency in her judging calls. Also she is severely biased for Japanese and non-Japanese skaters.
It is not professional at all. I would turn off TV if she become a technical judge in Olympic games. You know what? Japanese skater swill take over the podium no matter what they do in the performance.

Oh Yoko Junko potato potato... who the f cares?
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0910/SEG011OF.HTM
Do you see this Junko person's name here? Didn't think so.

This reminds me, I still can't get over how the evil German judge Jan Hoffmanh gave Baiul Gold over Kerrigan!!!!!
 
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prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
I think it's most appropriate to stick to the current competition and what we see instead of speculating too far.

Let's not yet go into sinister motivations of judges/tech panelists, and also, do not use the fact that YuNa has had !/e or underrotation calls, before.

Also, I am not that bothered. I just want YuNa to feel glad and happy because she skated well. Miki skated better, but they are both in strong contention to place first, and now it's up to either of them to skate a clean, good LP to win--just like it was in the olden days. ;)
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Junko is a terrible judge. I do not find any consistency in her judging calls. Also she is severely biased for Japanese and non-Japanese skaters.
It is not professional at all. I would turn off TV if she become a technical judge in Olympic games. You know what? Japanese skater swill take over the podium no matter what they do in the performance.

This is the most ridiculous post I've seen today. Firstly, Junko Hiramatsu is not a judge. Secondly, what concrete evidence (preferably in the form of protocols) do you have that she is 'severely biased' for Japanese and non-Japanese skaters? If anything, you're the one who seems to be the severely biased person here.

True, she did give Yu-Na a Level 1 step sequence at a competition over 2 years ago. But if you actually check the protocols of the event, you can see that Hiramatsu gave practically every skater low levels on their step sequences, even the only Japanese skater at that event, Fumie Suguri. Yu-Na was far from the only skater to get a Level 1 for her steps at that event. Just because Hiramatsu's an extremely strict caller doesn't she's severely biased or completely inconsistent.
 
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camion

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
figurejennah, I was just referring to how u mentioned your friends fight whenever it comes down to history. Anyways, I agree with prettykeys. Yuna didn't deserved to be dinged today & it has to do with consistency. Judges, tech panel need to have a seminar or something. I don't get how Yuna could be dg . It seems rather random.
 
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S

sweethinker

Guest
It's because rules were changed since last season. Last season judges saw the scores that tech specialist gave, and knew about UR, edge calls, law levels, etc. And they gave negative GOE's for DG jumps because they knew that it was DG. This season judges don't see scores that tech specialist gave to a skater when decide what GOE they'll give and it's not their job to decide is jump was UR more or less 1/4. that's why UR jumps now may have positive GOEs

Thanks for explaining, but I am aware of that. What I'm trying to say is that if the jump really was worth DG, the judges would probably not give it +1.6 GOE. According to my knowledge, no other skater got more than +1 GOE with a downgraded jump this season.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Thanks, that's the problem with jumping around from board to board :eek:

I missed Akiko today - but am not surprised in the least if she was under marked.

Reputation is everything in CoP and as much as I enjoy Akiko's skating her rep is not as big as some of the other girls.

I hope she skates well tomorrow.

I thought Akiko should've gotten a better score myself. She was great to watch.
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
According to my knowledge, no other skater got more than +1 GOE with a downgraded jump this season.

And no other skater this season didn't have as high GOE's as Yu-Na even for fully rotated jumps. Yu-Na's GOE's for jumps are always higher than other skaters and this time it was the same, especially because judges didn't know that the jump was DG by tech specialist
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Thanks for explaining, but I am aware of that. What I'm trying to say is that if the jump really was worth DG, the judges would probably not give it +1.6 GOE. According to my knowledge, no other skater got more than +1 GOE with a downgraded jump this season.
sweethinker is correct. Y'all can point to the rulebook and defer judgment, yadayada, but what's actually happening out there is that judges usually still judge jumps and hand out GoE's while making rotation considerations.

Personally, I hope YuNa will not force herself to change her 3Lz-3T technique or effort because of this outcome (because consciously trying to change it may ruin her technique), but I am actually happy YuNa is in this challenging moment. It's not a bad thing that she is faced with doing a clean LP or possibly lose.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I thought Akiko should've gotten a better score myself. She was great to watch.

I will try and catch her SP later today. It is a shame that she hasn't been given good marks all season for her SP. At COC she skated good but her SP marks felt low.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
And no other skater this season didn't have as high GOE's as Yu-Na even for fully rotated jumps. Yu-Na's GOE's for jumps are always higher than other skaters and this time it was the same
Does any other skater have the speed, rotation, height, and air-form like YuNa does?
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
It is a lame excuse for poor judgement. If human can not do the fair call, please ask machines to take over their jobs. It is cheap to buy high qulality HD TV and just watch it. It is non-sense

Well, then, please invent the machine to make UR calls and send it over to the ISU as soon as possible.

Also, what I was trying to say before is that even with HD-TV, it is still difficult to objectively determine the exact (or as you say, 1-2 decimal) rotation of a jump with the naked eye, especially within a limited timeframe. Why don't you actually give it a try, and tell me how it goes.
 

hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
I think it's most appropriate to stick to the current competition and what we see instead of speculating too far.

Let's not yet go into sinister motivations of judges/tech panelists, and also, do not use the fact that YuNa has had !/e or underrotation calls, before.

Also, I am not that bothered. I just want YuNa to feel glad and happy because she skated well. Miki skated better, but they are both in strong contention to place first, and now it's up to either of them to skate a clean, good LP to win--just like it was in the olden days. ;)

:clap:
The hoopla over tonight's result goes to show how YuNa IS indeed the queen of the ladies' skating now. Like Michelle was.

I agree YuNa's UR call was way too harsh tonight. Miki skated really well (I loved the fact she had speed), but she could do better. Her 3/3, spins, even more fire.

Can't wait till tomorrow!
 

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Well, then, please invent the machine to make UR calls and send it over to the ISU as soon as possible.

Also, what I was trying to say before is that even with HD-TV, it is still difficult to objectively determine the exact (or as you say, 1-2 decimal) rotation of a jump with the naked eye. Why don't you actually give it a try, and tell me how it goes.

I will. Thanks for encouraging me

By the way, you are not paying my salary so is there any reason why I need to report my progress? I am just kidding ^^
 

Phoenix347

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
This reminds me, I still can't get over how the eveil German judge Jan Hoffmanh gave Baiul Gold over Kerrigan!!!!!

I'm glad Baiul got gold over Kerrigan. She deserved it and I didn't like Kerrigan's bad attitude (especially about Mickey Mouse).

Having watched Yuna's SP in the highest quality I could find on YT, I thought it was a fine performance except for the popped 3F. I don't see how they can call the 3T part of 3Lz/3T combo under rotated. It was a very good jump. Definitely a bad call. But it is what it is. In the kiss and cry, both Yuna and Brian looked a bit surprised by the score. I can't blame them. Nevertheless, I hope this will be a catalyst for Yuna to go all out and smoke the free skate with massive fire. Kick butt tomorrow and show that fire in your belly, Yuna!
 
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