Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

silverlake22 · Dec 4, 2009

DarkestMoon said:
Wouldn't that be biasness? You know, the stuff many in this thread has complained about in favor of other skaters in previous comps, like I don't know the Canadians. Hypocritical statements are hypocritical.

Yeah, I suppose. But about the bias, national bias is different than this situation with Yuna. I think everyone pretty much likes Yuna just because she's so damn good. When she poped the jump in the short, it left the door open: she would either win by a small margin or come in second by a small margin. She ended up being in second by a point, and while I definitely think her 3t was rotated, the judges were being hard on all the ladies today, I thought Ashley and Akiko deserved higher scores, maybe even Joannie too. As for Alena and Miki, maybe they are great to watch in person and it's just hard to see it on TV.

The other thing is it might be GOOD for Yuna to come in second here (doubt that will happen but yeah) so some of the pressure is off her, unless she messes up the flip again, then it could be worse. If she nails the flip in the long but makes other mistakes I don't think people will freak out that much. But maybe I'm wrong, this is all just speculation, and I bet Yuna will win by a lot anyways

623 · Dec 4, 2009

silverlake22 said:
The other thing is it might be GOOD for Yuna to come in second here (doubt that will happen but yeah) so some of the pressure is off her, unless she messes up the flip again, then it could be worse. If she nails the flip in the long but makes other mistakes I don't think people will freak out that much. But maybe I'm wrong, this is all just speculation, and I bet Yuna will win by a lot anyways

You are right. I really hope that she will land her flip tomorrow. This is her last competition before the Olympics and making a mistake on the flip in the long programme would have a detrimental effect on her confidence in February.

DarkestMoon · Dec 4, 2009

silverlake22 said:
Yeah, I suppose. But about the bias, national bias is different than this situation with Yuna. I think everyone pretty much likes Yuna just because she's so damn good.

Bias is still bias; whether it's based on sentiment or nationality.

chloepoco · Dec 4, 2009

DarkestMoon said:
Bias is still bias; whether it's based on sentiment or nationality.

In total agreement with this statement!

enlight78 · Dec 4, 2009

Ice Network showed a freeze capture slow mo of Yu-Na 3/3 ; it was obviously 1/4 short and even a little more. A definite UR. In real time I admit it looks good; but the panel gets to use slo mo. So I don't know why you guys are causing such a ruckes; she underrotated and got caught big deal.

Blades of Passion · Dec 4, 2009

DarkestMoon said:
It's rather insipid that some of you have to scum down to poking fun of people's nationality. Deal with it. Making fun of someone's name because it sounds FUNNY and suspicious to you? Are some of you still wearing diapers?

Oh jeez.

I said she was suspicious because of her fashion choices.

Which is clearly a joke in and of itself.

Poking fun at her name (not making fun of her) was just an added bonus.

ehdtkqorl123 · Dec 4, 2009

enlight78 said:
Ice Network showed a freeze capture slow mo of Yu-Na 3/3 ; it was obviously 1/4 short and even a little more. A definite UR. In real time I admit it looks good; but the panel gets to use slo mo. So I don't know why you guys are causing such a ruckes; she underrotated and got caught big deal.

It looks UR to some people but it doesn't look UR to others. Maybe everyone has a different definition of UR.

DarkestMoon · Dec 4, 2009

Blades of Passion said:
Oh jeez.

I said she was suspicious because of her fashion choices.

Which is clearly a joke in and of itself.

Poking fun at her name (not making fun of her) was just an added bonus.

I was talking about the references to the tech specialist's name. I was referring to several posters as well.Thanks.

It looks UR to some people but it doesn't look UR to others. Maybe everyone has a different definition of UR.

Which is why -GOEs vary. Judges have to determine for themselves if it is UR. The tech caller can call it < but the judges won't see it when they're judging.

so_proud · Dec 4, 2009

enlight78 said:
Ice Network showed a freeze capture slow mo of Yu-Na 3/3 ; it was obviously 1/4 short and even a little more. A definite UR. In real time I admit it looks good; but the panel gets to use slo mo. So I don't know why you guys are causing such a ruckes; she underrotated and got caught big deal.

Could you show the slow mo from the Ice Network, which you are thinking that is a definite UR? I would want to see that.
Please see the slow motion from the link that Inside Edge has posted and tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNplsDi7_R0

Moxie · Dec 4, 2009

I will be pleasantly surprised if Miki doesn't have a meltdown tomorrow. She always looks so unhappy skating in Japan. Which probably has everything to do with the intense media scrutiny. And no Mao here to be a buffer.

But hopefully everyone will skate well tomorrow. I can't wait to see a clean LP with no skipped jumps from Yu-na. I love that Gershwin program so much.

Basics · Dec 4, 2009

it's vicious, isn't it? last year, it was edge call, now it's UR call from a same technical caller. oh yeah, there was also her boss Ms. Junko HIRAMATSU. sigh~ honestly, it looked even better than the ones at SA and TEB. were they watching the stupid videos posted by Japanese trolls on youtube, while yuna was actually performing?

Blades of Passion · Dec 4, 2009

enlight78 said:
Ice Network showed a freeze capture slow mo of Yu-Na 3/3 ; it was obviously 1/4 short and even a little more. A definite UR.

*sigh*

I have taken a screenshot of the moment you are talking about.

She has NOT landed at this point. Her toepick and blade are about to press down onto the ice but they haven't yet. All of her body weight is still in the air.

When she actually lands her blade is at least 45 degrees past the 1/4 turn mark. Which is absolutely normal.

This is one of the most ludicrous calls ever made and it is absolutely perfect proof why underrotated jumps need to have their own scale of values. Other than the fact that an underrotated Triple is more difficult than a Double, it is ridiculous how many points skaters are losing in competitions these days because the tech specialist made a "mistake".

I am tired of competitions being decided on the whim of a technical specialist having horrible judgment or making a "mistake".

Blades of Passion · Dec 4, 2009

And, wow, that screenshot stretched my post out weirdly.

Good to have a clear visual, though.

Mods, PM me if you need it to be resized.

Phoenix347 · Dec 4, 2009

Blades of Passion said:
*sigh*

I have taken a screenshot of the moment you are talking about.

* Image removed to save bandwidth *

She has NOT landed at this point. Her toepick and blade are about to press down onto the ice but they haven't yet. All of her body weight is still in the air.

When she actually lands her blade is at least 45 degrees past the 1/4 turn mark. Which is absolutely normal.

This is one of the most ludicrous calls ever made and it is absolutely perfect proof why underrotated jumps need to have their own scale of values. Other than the fact that an underrotated Triple is more difficult than a Double, it is ridiculous how many points skaters are losing in competitions these days because the tech specialist made a "mistake".

I am tired of competitions being decided on the whim of a technical specialist having horrible judgment or making a "mistake".

Thank you for your excellent and constructive post.

Basics · Dec 4, 2009

enlight78 said:
Ice Network showed a freeze capture slow mo of Yu-Na 3/3 ; it was obviously 1/4 short and even a little more. A definite UR. In real time I admit it looks good; but the panel gets to use slo mo. So I don't know why you guys are causing such a ruckes; she underrotated and got caught big deal.

You never can tell whether a jump is UR or not with just a snapshot photo. You actually have to see the point when the surface ice start to splash! ok?

DarkestMoon · Dec 4, 2009

Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?

The question is really whether you're all upset over a bad judging call or upset because Yu-na got a bad call. If you truly about the first over the latter, yeah, I do hope that many of you will ride in like a white knight for EVERY "misjudged" skater.

For these problems and complaints, I'm surprised there is no Universal tech caller from ISU, like a Nellie Kim in gymnastics, as the honcho who is called onto the floor when needed to make tough calls.

DarkestMoon · Dec 4, 2009

GoPC2018 said:
You never can tell whether a jump is UR or not with just a snapshot photo. You actually have to see the point when the surface ice start to splash! ok?

Usually when a skater lands on the toe pick first is a good indication of a UR. Some are glaringly obvious and some are in the gray area.

Kypma · Dec 4, 2009

GoPC2018 said:
You never can tell whether a jump is UR or not with just a snapshot photo. You actually have to see the point when the surface ice start to splash! ok?

Actually, you probably can. If, for example, a snapshot shows that the skater's toe pick is already in the ice before even reaching the quarter-turn point, then the jump is definitely under-rotated. If, on the other hand, the skater has rotated past that quarter-turn mark but is still in the air, then the jump wasn't under-rotated (assuming we are indeed looking at the final rotation, but that's pretty much implied here).

The cases where it is undecided is if the skater's blade is already in contact with the ice after the quarter-turn mark, or if the skater is still in the air before the quarter-turn mark.

Blades of Passion · Dec 4, 2009

DarkestMoon said:
Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?

I have been angry about bad calls and the way in which underrotated jumps are graded since early 2007. I have been campaigning against this horrible judging constantly.

Mathman can tell you this (with regards to my activity on this message board, in any case).

2007 U.S. Nationals, when Kimmie Meissner received full credit for what was clearly an underrotated 3-3, is what set off bells and released the demons.

Since then, we have seen major victims of jumps being downgraded. Yukari Nakano placing 4th at 2008 Worlds was a disgrace and showed how flawed CoP is.

The current rule revision in CoP for negative GOE not being automatically given to underrotated jumps was partially my doing and I intend to push more changes through.

wonderlen3000 · Dec 4, 2009

figurejennah said:
I am not being nationalistic here, I am from the states........??

I am sorry, but to be honest, I really cannot accept this downgrade with her 3T. Seriously, first her step, then her 3F, and now 3T. Now what?(And if it's that one/two same people who are giving these problems, then I will be bitter...... lol)

And, Ando got positive GOE for her 3-2 (which was supposed to be 3-3). BAH...??

Ando got +GOE for doing a great 3+2 with no underrotation or shabby landing. +GOE doesn't apply not only to skater to do 3+3. Then how would you defend your case for skaters getting +1, +2GOE on solo jump?

Most video replay doesn't really show any other wise. Maybe the tech caller is looking for when the ACTUAL middle of the blade touch the ice. Not the tip of the blade.

Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

silverlake22

623

DarkestMoon

chloepoco

enlight78

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

ehdtkqorl123

DarkestMoon

so_proud

Moxie

Basics

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Phoenix347

Basics

DarkestMoon

DarkestMoon

Kypma

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

wonderlen3000

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