JGPF Ice Dance | Page 2 | Golden Skate

JGPF Ice Dance

3T3T

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Country
Ireland
Does anyone know how Pushkash/Guerreiro skated? I really liked their peformances earlier this year but they over 7 points of their best in the OD and nearly 9 in the Free.

I was expecting to be in a battle for the podium but ended up a distant fifth. Surprised that the Shibutanis did not come first
 

samba

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
The Shibs skated really well, I don't see any mistakes. Too bad that they didn't win, they're the favorite to win. However, I like I/K too, she has very pretty long line. This team seems to be Russian future, IMO. Not sure if I like M/K that much.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Does anyone know how Pushkash/Guerreiro skated? I really liked their peformances earlier this year but they over 7 points of their best in the OD and nearly 9 in the Free.

She had a mistake in the twizzles and were sloppy overall.

Like I said, I would have had it:

1. Ilinykh/Katsalapov - Amazing fluidity and skating skills. They get tremendous speed and ice coverage. She, in particular, is fantastic. Lifts were really well done. They were the first team to hold my attention throughout the dance. Only mistake was them being very slightly off-synch in the twizzles.

2. Shibutani/Shibutani - Seemed slow after I/K, especially in the footwork. Didn't quite hold the attention, and the choreography is very open. I find they don't skates in holds very much due to the height difference, and when they do, there's a huge gap. Great technicians, but didn't seem all that special skating directly after I/K. I thought they skated this better in LP.

3. Monko/Khaliavin - They have really fast feet (and therefore good footwork), but it seemed like he made a mistake in the twizzles when you look at the slow-mo. Seemed sloppy after the other 2 teams.

Can I just say how fabulous Asher Hill is? Fantastic natural dancer! :rock: I wish he had a better partner. Kharis Ralph's posture leaves much to be desired.

I liked the Italians a lot too, and would've had them above Cannuscio/Lorello.
 

Kimmie Fan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
What do people think of ILINYKH/KATSALAPOV's FD?
I am pretty sure they meant well but I felt uncomfortable watching it.
and she being killed at the end...yikes.
 
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Fashionista

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
What do people think of ILINYKH/KATSALAPOV's FD?
I think they were absolutely amazing.
Not so many senior teams can provide such a delicate understanding of the theme and show proper emotions so I'm twice surprised to see this ability from juniors.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I haven't watched the FD's yet, but I can't understand M&K's OD being scored over either Shibutanis' Japanese/martial arts drums OD or I&K's Chilean pan pipes OD or for that matter Ralph & Hill, who had the best rendition I've seen of their South African OD they've done. M&K had a very sloppy rendition of a fairly standard issue Russian folk dance. The unison was really bad.

They appeared to be fast, AFAI could tell, but that was their one positive thing.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
What do people think of ILINYKH/KATSALAPOV's FD?
I am pretty they meant well but I felt uncomfortable watching it.
and she being killed at the end...yikes.

Is it the Schindler's List one where she's dressed as a concentration camp victim? If so, I hate it so profoundly that if it was my first exposure to ice dancing, I'd never give it a second look.
 

icedancexpert

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
I too, am disgusted by I/K's program. The machine gun fire at the beginning, the prisoner's garb, and the gun shot at the end are all tasteless, sickening, and inappropriate in all contexts. I can't believe anyone could sign off on a program like this one. For me, it is impossible to enjoy. They even skated it in Poland (earlier this season)! Ughh.

As for Monko/Khaliavin, I understand, "It's A Man's World," (it has been skated to multiple times) but what's with the "opera?" It was one of those programs that seemed to last forever. (Not good IMO)
Both programs are head scratchers for me.

Ralph/Hill skated their OD, the best I have ever seen it. It's a truly unique dance
and I enjoy watching it. Although I don't like their FD as much as their OD, I hope they skate both programs well at Nationals. And while I don't see them breaking the top 3 this year, I hope they continue to improve.

The Shibutani's Tango Rhapsody program is a true dance, and I enjoyed watching it. Their OD was terrific here, as they got a standing ovation from the audience. There is no doubt in my mind, that the Shibutanis are the team of the future. Regardless of how they place this year, I feel they have what it takes...they have something that no other Junior team, this year or last had. Their global fan appeal, backed up by their skating, and often talked about IT factor, have me convinced. While I am disappointed they didn't place higher at this event, no skater can win every competition they enter. It's a tough road, and people experience it at different points.

Regardless of results, or programs, the skating in this year's junior event was stronger than last year's and maybe even stronger than any other. The sport has progressed so much and the future looks bright.

As it is ice dance, there is no doubt in my mind that politics may have played a role in how the results turned out. First of all, the U.S. has won the past two JW titles in ice dance and they won the junior final last year. This can't be pleasing to several countries in particular. Also, with Davis/White (or even if V/M had won) winning the senior event before the junior event even started, it would be unprecedented for there to be an American/North American sweep of the dance events.

Although this may belong in a different thread, I like V/M's FD much more than D/W's phantom and I hope they win the OGM. Kudos to D/W for their OD, IMO, it is the best this year. Both teams deserved to win at the GPF, they are both terrific.
 

Kimmie Fan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Imo, it was incredibly tacky for I/K to be at KnC saying hi to their moms and blowing kisses just moments after they depicted shooting death of a Jew at a Nazi concentration camp. Just too bizarre!

Can you imagine D/W dancing to the music from the TV series Roots and Charlie and Meryl portraying black slaves?
Unthinkable!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, but unthinkable in one country is very thinkable in another.

I recall Winkler and Lohse doing Let My People Go dressed up as slaves, not to mention A&P's OGM winning Martin Luther King speech.

By the way, are either I&K Jewish?

I don't think Jr. Dance has been this good since 2006, when V&M, D&W and C&L were the top 3 at the JGPF:

http://www.tracings.net/2006jgpf.html
 

Fashionista

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
I
As it is ice dance, there is no doubt in my mind that politics may have played a role in how the results turned out. First of all, the U.S. has won the past two JW titles in ice dance and they won the junior final last year. This can't be pleasing to several countries in particular. Also, with Davis/White (or even if V/M had won) winning the senior event before the junior event even started, it would be unprecedented for there to be an American/North American sweep of the dance events.
Oh, boy, another round of snots about politiking!
Always happens when people can't deal with favorite team's loss. And I should already got used to it.

Do you really think Shibs were better than two Russian teams? Do you really think their choreography is something interesting compared to Russians? Do you really think they came anywhere close to Russians in term of emotional interpretation of the program?
To me they're great technicians and sweet kids but not more so far. Wish them good luck and hard work on their emotional side.

Also WTF about I/K and all these talks about them not to be Jews. Do you really think only Jews have a right to interpret this theme? Or you all as ignorant as IN's writers who have no idea how many Russians died in Nazi camps together with Jews?
 

Kimmie Fan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Oh, boy, another round of snots about politiking!
Always happens when people can't deal with favorite team's loss. And I should already got used to it.

Do you really think Shibs were better than two Russian teams? Do you really think their choreography is something interesting compared to Russians? Do you really think they came anywhere close to Russians in term of emotional interpretation of the program?
To me they're great technicians and sweet kids but not more so far. Wish them good luck and hard work on their emotional side.

Also WTF about I/K and all these talks about them not to be Jews. Do you really think only Jews have a right to interpret this theme? Or you all as ignorant as IN's writers who have no idea how many Russians died in Nazi camps together with Jews?
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in an open discussion forum
That means sometimes people disagree with yours. :p

As for I/K, the issue is not whether they are qualified to interpret nazi atrocities, but whether it is a suitable theme for figure skating.
I personally don't think so. I think I/K went too far with her concentration camp uniform and simulating death by shooting. Its not appropriate for figure skating.
Maybe it would have worked better as an exhibition program.
 

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
I really don't understand the uproar over I/K's music and program choice. I can recall numerous people who have skated to the same music...including German's last year! Were people this upset when S/S debuted their program last year? I don't recall any uproar, and I don't think there should have been.

I thought they were extremely mature with their interpretation. The program, IMO, was moving and beautiful.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in an open discussion forum
That means sometimes people disagree with yours. :p

As for I/K, the issue is not whether they are qualified to interpret nazi atrocities, but whether it is a suitable theme for figure skating.
I personally don't think so. I think I/K went too far with her concentration camp uniform and simulating death by shooting. Its not appropriate for figure skating.
Maybe it would have worked better as an exhibition program.

As the person above said, Schindler's List was used for YEARS before this even by a pair team representing Germany. And how many "deaths" to we have in skating as well. As for her chose of clothes, I actually kind of give her credit for being willing to go out there NOT all dressed up and with if you noticed no makeup etc, in a sport that is all about the glam.

I found that throughout the performance while they were on the ice their demeanor was appropriate too. . I don't see the big deal while after her performance was over that she smiled at the kiss and cry.

Whether the subject is appropriate or not, I thought it was clear they took the subject seriously.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I agree with bek - I thought they handled the subject very maturely and appropriately especially considering they're only 15/18 years old. Elena herself said in an interview that she knew the program would be controversial but that they wanted to take it on. I also found their interpretation moving.

But whether you like the program or not, the fact that they have amazing basic skating is undeniable. They covered the ice with great speed and were halfway across the rink in a couple of strokes. No other team (including, yes, the Shibutanis) did that. Their lifts and footwork were also outstanding. Amazing potential in this couple. I would have given them the gold.

I don't think that the choreography of their program did the Shibutanis any justice. It's very open and nothing about it says tango, aside maybe one lift. I agree also that while they are fantastic technicians, they do need to work more on the emotional side of their skating. I think that the fact that they skated after I/K highlighted this. I don't have any problem with the judges putting them behind I/K in the free dance (though personally, I would have had M/K third).
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I really don't understand the uproar over I/K's music and program choice. I can recall numerous people who have skated to the same music...including German's last year! Were people this upset when S/S debuted their program last year? I don't recall any uproar, and I don't think there should have been.

I thought they were extremely mature with their interpretation. The program, IMO, was moving and beautiful.

It's NOT the music I object to, though I will say I have yet to see a Schindler's List program I really love. The score to Schindler's List is so unbearably sad that I'd much rather be with my own thoughts as opposed to figure skating (which seems so trivial in comparison). For another similar situation, Brian Joubert skating to Safri Duo doesn't do anything for me because frankly, if I'm listening to Safri Duo, I'm gonna be dancing my ownself.

a) When Anissina/Peizarat used Martin Luther King Jr.'s speech, they did several things correctly. Firstly, the used it in tandem with a larger theme (of freedom/liberty). It used the speech, but it wasn't specifically about the Civil Rights Movement/MLK. So they paid attention to the mood, texture and cadence of the speech which lent the whole thing a wonder oral quality (unsurprising, since MLK was one of the great orators of modern times). Additionally, the little nuances they brought to the skating helped (A/P at their best are better than I/K now. Not an insult or even a fair comparison, but if you're gonna do something gutsy like that, you'd better have the skills to back it up) - in particular, I loved the pendulum lift. And finally, they didn't condescend or look down on the subject.

b) No, there wasn't much uproar about I/K's program. But if you go back to the thread where they debuted it on the JGP, you'll see that I'm pretty upset about it. So I'm consistent in that regard.

c) So, what do I/K do wrong?
i: The Costumes
bekalc, you give credit for them going a more "de-glam" route. I'll argue the opposite. By her wearing and dancing in what essentially amounts to ghetto-chic, she almost glamorizes the holocaust, precisely because she's wearing the concentration camp uniform in an environment that is largely glamorous. If she were to wear it on a runway, I'd be up in arms. I don't see how what essentially amounts to posing, dancing and preening in the concentration camp uniform is any different.

ii: The Music
It's not Schindler's List. It's the inclusion of the gunshots. It's unecessary, jarring and COMPLETELY destroys any illusion/story they're telling.

iii: The Skaters
Simply speaking, as skilled as they are (loved their CD and OD at the JGP debut this season), they aren't at the level required (for me, I should add) to pull this program off. I don't doubt that their hearts are in the right place, but I don't think they even come close to achieving what they need to for this program to work.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
i: The Costumes
bekalc, you give credit for them going a more "de-glam" route. I'll argue the opposite. By her wearing and dancing in what essentially amounts to ghetto-chic, she almost glamorizes the holocaust, precisely because she's wearing the concentration camp uniform in an environment that is largely glamorous. If she were to wear it on a runway, I'd be up in arms. I don't see how what essentially amounts to posing, dancing and preening in the concentration camp uniform is any different.

If it was on a runway they'd be calling it high fashion, which would be ridiculous and offensive. In this case, they are portraying a Holocaust victim and so I don't see it as glamorizing. I mean is it glamorizing to have that kind of costume in a movie??? Or on a theater stage?
 

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
I don't think they glamorized anything about the holocaust. If anything, they reminded people of the brutal reality of the events that occurred. They didn't trivialize the story and kept a very mature expression and interpretation throughout their program. I applaud them for taking on such a heavy program.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
If it was on a runway they'd be calling it high fashion, which would be ridiculous and offensive. In this case, they are portraying a Holocaust victim and so I don't see it as glamorizing. I mean is it glamorizing to have that kind of costume in a movie??? Or on a theater stage?

No, but movies and theatre are artforms. Ice dancing is a sport, not an art.
 
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