Will Mao make the Oly team?

☆Genie · Dec 11, 2009

The JSF invested too much into Mao to see her just sit at home and rack in cash from commericals. SHe has like huge sponsors in Japan...
Her situation reminds me of Nastia Liukin. She is the 2008 All-around champion for the olympics. She was beaten by Shawn Johnson (Like Yuna) all year because her skills were very difficult. But at the olympics Nastia had perfect performances and won.

Hopefully fierce mao will be ready

silverlake22 · Dec 11, 2009

☆Genie;440032 said:
The JSF invested too much into Mao to see her just sit at home and rack in cash from commericals. SHe has like huge sponsors in Japan...
Her situation reminds me of Nastia Liukin. She is the 2008 All-around champion for the olympics. She was beaten by Shawn Johnson (Like Yuna) all year because her skills were very difficult. But at the olympics Nastia had perfect performances and won.

Hopefully fierce mao will be ready

Yeah, Mao will be at the Olympics. Idk if she is like Nastia, I tend to think Yuna has more natural talent and Mao just can do more difficult jumps (though inconsistently). COR was definitely a disapointment but I didn't think Mao's performance at TEB was bad for the first competition of the season. She hit both her 3As in the long, got credit for the combination and the second one was just slightly 2-footed. 175 is really a pretty good score for that early in the season.

The one thing though is I think the technical callers will be very strict on the 3A like they are 3-3s....if a skater does a jump that few others do, I feel like if the rotation is borderline the judges won't give it to them whereas if it was a solo triple they might. Caroline and Rachael got downgraded at nats last year on their 3-3s and both were very close to being fully rotated. Mao's 2nd 3a at TEB also looked very close to fully rotated and it was downgraded. What's worrisome though is that Mao has been losing points on her non 3a jump elements as well, getting UR calls on a lot of her loops. If the tech callers are that strict on the 3a, and she doesn't have a 3-3, she'll be at a disadvantage

Tinymavy15 · Dec 11, 2009

janetfan said:
Hmmm.....maybe this sounds silly - but watching Mao do the first 3A looked great. On the second one, her doom music is playing and she pops the 3A.

Is this dark and dreary music causing Mao's problems?

It's possible. Also (and I don't know if you are a skater or not) but skaters find it harder to do thief elements in any program. In practice guys will be landing quad/triple / triple but when the music starts you have to consider being on time with the music, doing the jump in an exact spot so you can go into the next element / step properly, and the there is the whole pscological factor of "okay you have to do this." This is why skaters who train thier full programs, skated all the way through everyday come out on top. Tara and Sarah were both trained this way and look where they ended up.

hellcat · Dec 11, 2009

schiele said:
Amen to that...
Just came across the training vid of Mao posted on FSU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2_BLcHQ6zs
Well, in practice her 3As look good as usual but we can't know if her confidence is actually back.
I guess whatever happens in Vancouver, if Mao decides to stay on after it, she must make some important changes overall.

Are you sure her 1st 3A is fully rotated? It almost looks like she's jumping backward. Also, was it 1 success out of 6? Was it 1 out of 6 in the real thing or practice? That can't be during practice, right?

ehdtkqorl123 · Dec 11, 2009

hellcat said:
Are you sure her 1st 3A is fully rotated? It almost looks like she's jumping backward. Also, was it 1 success out of 6? Was it 1 out of 6 in the real thing or practice? That can't be during practice, right?

The first one was undoubtedly pre-rotated

silverlake22 · Dec 13, 2009

Sure looked pre-rotated to me. Amazing that she's such a powerful jumper though, she is so tiny!

schiele · Dec 14, 2009

ehdtkqorl123 said:
The first one was undoubtedly pre-rotated

Well she tends to pre-rotate most of the time. Unless she lands clean with no UR, her pre-rotation is within the boundaries I think. Of course I'm no expert tho..

bekalc · Dec 14, 2009

☆Genie;440032 said:
The JSF invested too much into Mao to see her just sit at home and rack in cash from commericals. SHe has like huge sponsors in Japan...
Her situation reminds me of Nastia Liukin. She is the 2008 All-around champion for the olympics. She was beaten by Shawn Johnson (Like Yuna) all year because her skills were very difficult. But at the olympics Nastia had perfect performances and won.

Hopefully fierce mao will be ready

Shawn was beating Nastia because Nastia was having issues going clean. In 2007 Nastia, was recovering from a major ankle injury and in 2008, she was clearly peaking. It also helped that Shawn was a bit overscored in domestic competitions. Nastia did beat Shawn though at the American Cup.

This being said you cannot compare Nastia/Shawn to Mao and Yu-na because Nastia/Shawn represented two very different aspects of this sport. With Nastia representing the beauty/artistic side and Shawn respresenting difficult tricks side. In someways, I kind of personally feel that neither was very complete in that aspect because the best gymnasts like Khorkina combine both artistry and really difficult skills. In contrast both Mao and Yu-na combine both aspects of the sport very nicely.

Shawn though was regarded as having absolutely NO artistry. And in fairness to Nastia she did have enough difficult skills to be competitive. Her bars were of course awesome, but in some other events she really was kind of a code user.

However at the Olympics, the politics was clearly going Nastia's way. Because the sport's leaders were getting very tired of seeing the tricksters win, and artistry not rewarded. They missed Soviet style gymnastics. Reports were the head of the FIG, made it clear that they wanted gymnasts to start being deducted for lack of artistry. Personally I agree with them on Nastia being the right direction for the sport.

silverlake22 · Dec 14, 2009

bekalc said:
Shawn was beating Nastia because Nastia was having issues going clean. In 2007 Nastia, was recovering from a major ankle injury and in 2008, she was clearly peaking. It also helped that Shawn was a bit overscored in domestic competitions. Nastia did beat Shawn though at the American Cup.

This being said you cannot compare Nastia/Shawn to Mao and Yu-na because Nastia/Shawn represented two very different aspects of this sport. With Nastia representing the beauty/artistic side and Shawn respresenting difficult tricks side. In someways, I kind of personally feel that neither was very complete in that aspect because the best gymnasts like Khorkina combine both artistry and really difficult skills. In contrast both Mao and Yu-na combine both aspects of the sport very nicely.

Shawn though was regarded as having absolutely NO artistry. And in fairness to Nastia she did have enough difficult skills to be competitive. Her bars were of course awesome, but in some other events she really was kind of a code user.

However at the Olympics, the politics was clearly going Nastia's way. Because the sport's leaders were getting very tired of seeing the tricksters win, and artistry not rewarded. They missed Soviet style gymnastics. Reports were the head of the FIG, made it clear that they wanted gymnasts to start being deducted for lack of artistry. Personally I agree with them on Nastia being the right direction for the sport.

Yeah, the whole gymnastics business was pretty interesting, although I feel like artistry should be less important in gymnastics than in skating. In gymnastics, only the floor routine is set to music, so there's really not much room/need to be artistic in the other events.

Mao and Yuna are both athletic and artistic, which seems to be a trait of most asian figure skaters these days, and is probably why they do so well. Artistry alone won't get you to the top as we've seen with skaters like Alissa Czisny and Laura Lepisto (I know they won US nationals and Euros but I think you get the point i'm making) and neither will technique alone as we've seen with Rachael Flatt, who out of fairness to her is quite musical, or Caroline Zhang last year at nats with the Ave Maria program with no choreography. You need both, but if you are going to skimp out on one, it's much better to be stronger technically than artistically. Rachael and Shawn both prove this. Artistry is nice to see, and it will hold a skater/gymnast up when they are struggling, but if the technique is there and the artistry is a little lacking, you can still rake up enough points to be competitive.

bekalc · Dec 14, 2009

You need both, but if you are going to skimp out on one, it's much better to be stronger technically than artistically. Rachael and Shawn both prove this. Artistry is nice to see, and it will hold a skater/gymnast up when they are struggling, but if the technique is there and the artistry is a little lacking, you can still rake up enough points to be competitive.

Click to expand...

Rachael/Shawn aren't really good comparisions. Shawn was really spectacular when it comes to tricks. She had G skills on every event (even her bars which other than that dismount was very weak for her) She had no code whring whatsover. She didn't have the greatest technique, but you can't deny that she was truly doing some very difficult skills.

In contrast, I don't think Rachael is all that special technically. Once in awhile she may do a 3flip/3toe but that's actually kind of rare from her. She has all the jumps but I wouldn't call them spectacular. Like Kim/Ando's/Mao's can be...She's just consistent.

Probably a good comparision between Shawn and a skater would be someone like Ando or Irina S

Yeah, the whole gymnastics business was pretty interesting, although I feel like artistry should be less important in gymnastics than in skating. In gymnastics, only the floor routine is set to music, so there's really not much room/need to be artistic in the other events.

Click to expand...

The name of the sport is artistic gymnastics. Music isn't the only thing about artistry. Its also how skills are presented. Beam is something that should also be artistic. Bars can be made beautiful too and a well done vault should have good form amplitude, not just be chucked. See tapes of the old Soviet gymnasts.

silverlake22 · Dec 14, 2009

bekalc said:
In contrast, I don't think Rachael is all that special technically. Once in awhile she may do a 3flip/3toe but that's actually kind of rare from her. She has all the jumps but I wouldn't call them spectacular. Like Kim/Ando's/Mao's can be...She's just consistent.

Probably a good comparision between Shawn and a skater would be someone like Ando or Irina S
.

Click to expand...

You are probably right about Ando or Irina being more like Shawn, but I have to say that IN COMPARISON TO THE COMPETITION RIGHT NOW, Rachael is pretty special technically. 6 or 7 triples almost every time, always two 3flips and two 3lutzes, and her 3 jump combo is super solid. That's more than I can say about Rochette, Ando, and Asada this season. Rachael also doesn't have as much of the flutz edge call ! UR business as most of the other top ladies today, which is probably why she scores so well

prettykeys · Dec 14, 2009

schiele said:
Well she tends to pre-rotate most of the time. Unless she lands clean with no UR, her pre-rotation is within the boundaries I think. Of course I'm no expert tho..

I think you're right, schiele. I've seen male skaters pre-rotate their 3A's in the same way.

bekalc · Dec 14, 2009

silverlake22 said:
bekalc said:

You are probably right about Ando or Irina being more like Shawn, but I have to say that IN COMPARISON TO THE COMPETITION RIGHT NOW, Rachael is pretty special technically. 6 or 7 triples almost every time, always two 3flips and two 3lutzes, and her 3 jump combo is super solid. That's more than I can say about Rochette, Ando, and Asada this season. Rachael also doesn't have as much of the flutz edge call ! UR business as most of the other top ladies today, which is probably why she scores so well

Click to expand...

Well Kim could do two lutzs and two flips but instead she chooses to do a harder combination to get the extra points. And there's nothing particularly special about Rachael's jumps. They are smallish.

silverlake22 · Dec 14, 2009

bekalc said:
silverlake22 said:

Well Kim could do two lutzs and two flips but instead she chooses to do a harder combination to get the extra points. And there's nothing particularly special about Rachael's jumps. They are smallish.

Click to expand...

I suppose you're right. Anyone know why Yuna does 3 double axels in her long program? I was just thinking about it and if she switched one of her 2a with a triple she'd have an 8 triple long program . I mean I know she obviously doesn't need that extra triple but she probably could land it and then she might be the first woman ever to land 8 triples in one program!

ImaginaryPogue · Dec 14, 2009

If you're only allowed to repeat two triples, the eighth would have to be a triple axel, right?

Tinymavy15 · Dec 14, 2009

silverlake22 said:
bekalc said:

You are probably right about Ando or Irina being more like Shawn, but I have to say that IN COMPARISON TO THE COMPETITION RIGHT NOW, Rachael is pretty special technically. 6 or 7 triples almost every time, always two 3flips and two 3lutzes, and her 3 jump combo is super solid. That's more than I can say about Rochette, Ando, and Asada this season. Rachael also doesn't have as much of the flutz edge call ! UR business as most of the other top ladies today, which is probably why she scores so well

Click to expand...

Rachael has the jumps, which is pretty good for an american lady, but she does not compare to Miki, Rochette or Asada in the height she gets in her jumps. Like Caroline, most of her jumps are very small and often skated into slowly which does not give her the appearance of a "natural jumper."

silverlake22 · Dec 14, 2009

ImaginaryPogue said:
If you're only allowed to repeat two triples, the eighth would have to be a triple axel, right?

There are five different triples not including the triple axel, and each one can be attempted twice I thought, just one of the times had to be in combination. You are allowed seven jumping passes, and two can have two jumps, one can have three, and you aren't allowed to do more than three double axels. So could she do 8 triples this way?:
3lz-3t
3fl
3s-2t-2lo <-- replace the 2a in her program now with a triple that isn't lutz or toe
3fl-3t <-- loop could also be a 3sal or 3flip i believe. In her program now she is doing a 2a
3s
3lz
2a

8 triples!

schiele · Dec 15, 2009

silverlake22 said:
There are five different triples not including the triple axel, and each one can be attempted twice I thought, just one of the times had to be in combination. You are allowed seven jumping passes, and two can have two jumps, one can have three, and you aren't allowed to do more than three double axels. So could she do 8 triples this way?:
3lz-3t
3fl
3s-2t-2lo <-- replace the 2a in her program now with a triple that isn't lutz or toe
3fl-3t <-- loop could also be a 3sal or 3flip i believe. In her program now she is doing a 2a
3s
3lz
2a

8 triples!

Silverlake22, I don't think it works. As I have just been informed myself on "Answers for Johnny" thread, due to Kayak rule or smth you cannot repeat more than 2 jumps regardless of the combination rule you mentioned. So if she followed that layout, the 3T and 3F would be the repeats and her final repeat 3S wouldn't count..

mskater93 · Dec 15, 2009

It's the Zayak rule named after former World Champion Elaine Zayak who did 15 (ok, I exaggerate) triple toes in her surprise World title long program.

Once again, you can only repeat 2 jumps that are 3 or more rotations, no more than 2x and at least one of those attempts must be in a combination.
You must do a minimum of one jump combination/sequence and a maximum of 3 and only one combo or sequence can contain more than 2 listed jumps.

seniorita · Dec 15, 2009

If Mao is not in the Olympic team I will abandon figure skating and root for curling like Mm. I cant believe they dont send her to Olympics after all the fuss in 2006 and I cant imagine a skater like Mao being on the list of the ones who didnt attend Olympics. Even if she is placed 5th at Nationals.

Will Mao make the Oly team?

☆Genie

silverlake22

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

hellcat

ehdtkqorl123

silverlake22

schiele

bekalc

silverlake22

bekalc

silverlake22

prettykeys

bekalc

silverlake22

ImaginaryPogue

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

silverlake22

schiele

mskater93

seniorita

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