Yuna Kim | Page 110 | Golden Skate

Yuna Kim

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Both Michelle and Tara were roundly criticized for their Lutz edge in the season leading up to the 1998 Olympics. There was a running battle of words between Frank Carroll and Richard Callaghan, each accusing the other's skater of terrible technique while denying (publicly anyway) that there was anything wrong with his own girl's.

Tara in particular was marked down for it in the 1997 Grand Prix series. (She was forgiven by the time of the Grand Prix Final, though, where she won against five other skaters all of whom had pretty good Lutzes, as I recall -- Szevczenko. Butyrskaya. Slutskaya, Sokolova and Hubert, Michelle not participating.)

I don't know why North American and Asian ladies cannot do this jump (YU-NA EXCEPTED!!! (where are the run-and-hide and slink-away smilies?)) It is hard to name two U.S. ladies who don't flutz. (I can name one -- Alissa Czisny -- she lips. :) )

I used to think that the mechanics of the jump are such that only a man can do it. Something about how the hips join up with the pelvis, together with upper body strength. But there are quite a few European ladies who have excellent Lutz technique, so I guess that's not it.
 
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kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I have mixed feeling about her LP, as fantastic and gorgeous as it is, I think it would work best as a exhibition where she doesn't have all these COP limitations and she can have complete freedom to express from within. It is one of those rare 'heart on a plate' type of program, and putting it through the COP shredder is just *shudder* inducing. If there's any program that need to be bring back from the past, I'd love it to be the Lark Ascending.

Thanks for this (I'm a little sick of all the sniping about lack of loop here and flutzing here...why not talk about what's actually going on with Yu-Na).

I agree with the assessment that the heart of the program would be conveyed better without the pressure and constraints of COP. BUT, with a few tweaks, and if performed to it's fullest, this could be a real gem.

ITA, Lark was a push-the-limits type program that deserves a revisit...It's be great to see her re-do given her higher level of maturity and presentation...
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Gosh, Prettykeys - you always make me so happy when you bow at the feet of That's all I ask: that she is worshipped and adored...

(Ok, I'm sorry. I won't interrupt again...)
LOL, I'll make sure I do it more often. Is :bow: THE KWEEN :bow: the most well-rounded skater up to date? Yes. Does she have the most prolific body of exceptional programs/skates? Yes. Are her non-CoP scoring skills divine? Yes. Still the best? Grudgingly...yes.

(But only by this -> <- much. ;) )
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
..."mastery of the full vocabulary of figure skating"...

Don't mind me. I just think that phrase is cool, so I am constantly on the lookout for opportunities to throw it into the conversation.

Patrick Chan? Why, the boy exhibits total mastery of the full vocabulary of figure skating! katarina Witt? ...

I got this language off one of the the official ISU documents -- the one and only time I was impressed (rather than bewildered) by "ISU English." :yes:
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Both Michelle and Tara were roundly criticized for their Lutz edge in the season leading up to the 1998 Olympics. There was a running battle of words between Frank Carroll and Richard Callaghan, each accusing the other's skater of terrible technique while denying (publicly anyway) that there was anything wrong with his own girl's.

Tara in particular was marked down for it in the 1997 Grand Prix series. (She was forgiven by the time of the Grand Prix Final, though, where she won against five other skaters all of whom had pretty good Lutzes, as I recall -- Szevczenko. Butyrskaya. Slutskaya, Sokolova and Hubert, Michelle not participating.)

I don't know why North American and Asian ladies cannot do this jump (YU-NA EXCEPTED!!! (where are the run-and-hide and slink-away smilies?)) It is hard to name two U.S. ladies who don't flutz. (I can name one -- Alissa Czisny -- she lips. :) )

I used to think that the mechanics of the jump are such that only a man can do it. Something about how the hips join up with the pelvis, together with upper body strength. But there are quite a few European ladies who have excellent Lutz technique, so I guess that's not it.

I believe Agnes has a true lutz with great distance and height.
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
ONE REAL REASON WHY POPULARITY DECLINED IN THE US...LIKE a DOWMWARD SPIRAL !

IF you just think about...Miki continuosly beats Mao in competitions...The Popularity in Japan will surely...DECLINE !
Miki reminds me Michelle...a consistent skater who is capable of winning... without a facinating trick or beauty.
If it's not beautiful...why do people watch skating?...they will rather watch SECTACULAR GYMNASTICS or somethingelse instead.

Even though Michelle created her fans more than any other skaters in the US history by winning so many competitions...
I strongly believe...Michelle's long reign in the US...damaged the popularity of skating...more than any other factors.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
ONE REAL REASON WHY POPULARITY DECLINED IN THE US...LIKE a DOWMWARD SPIRAL !

IF you just think about...Miki continuosly beats Mao in competitions...The Popularity in Japan will surely...DECLINE !
Miki reminds me Michelle...a consistent skater who is capable of winning... without a facinating trick or beauty.
If it's not beautiful...why do people watch skating?...they will rather watch SECTACULAR GYMNASTICS or somethingelse instead.

Even though Michelle created her fans more than any other skaters in the US history by winning so many competitions...
I strongly believe...Michelle's long reign in the US...damaged the popularity of skating...more than any other factors.

lol oh boy!!... please kindly create a separate thread, leave Yuna news alone! :p

FYI, according to an aunt joyce's old poll on 'who would you like to win world championship 2011'
Yuna got 631 votes (74%)
Mao Asada 70 votes (8%)
Miki Ando 30 votes (3%)
Alissa Czisny 119 votes (14%)

The US No.1 Rachel Flatt is left out. Before you blame Michelle (Sacrilege!!), may be you should consider current US ladies and the skater the federation favours. I still think Mirai is the way to go (Even without medalling, you need to have a star, a personality, someone to root for, to remember by despite what ever fault they might have), but that is for another thread.
 
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SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
lol oh boy!!... please kindly create a separate thread, leave Yuna news alone! :p

FYI, according to an aunt joyce's old poll on 'who would you like to win world championship 2011'
Yuna got 631 votes (74%)
Mao Asada 70 votes (8%)
Miki Ando 30 votes (3%)
Alissa Czisny 119 votes (14%)

The US No.1 Rachel Flatt is left out. Before you blame Michelle (Sacrilege!!), may be you should consider current US ladies and the skater the federation favours. I still think Mirai is the way to go (Even without medalling, you need to have a star, a personality, someone to root for, to remember by despite what ever fault they might have), but that is for another thread.

Michelle...at least...won...many competitions for her fans.
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
And that is why she's the Kween, your point being?

I just want to clarify the REAL REASON of declining popularity of skating to Michelle fans.
As an athlete...Michelle is a Kween or whatever...
But as an artist...she is nothing more than average.

Overall...Michelle was JUST OK.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I just want to clarify the REAL REASON of declining popularity of skating to Michelle fans.
As an athlete...Michelle is a Kween or whatever...
But as an artist...she is nothing more than average.

Overall...Michelle was JUST OK.

First of all - this is the wrong thread to continue this line of discussion.
Second of all: Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

JUST OK? Me looking at your nick SkatingAnalyst weirdly! :unsure: :think:
(wonder where you qualify your Analyst bit?)
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
LOL, I'll make sure I do it more often. Is :bow: THE KWEEN :bow: the most well-rounded skater up to date? Yes. Does she have the most prolific body of exceptional programs/skates? Yes. Are her non-CoP scoring skills divine? Yes. Still the best? Grudgingly...yes.

(But only by this -> <- much. ;) )

:love: Big ol' kisses sent to you...

ONE REAL REASON WHY POPULARITY DECLINED IN THE US...LIKE a DOWMWARD SPIRAL !

IF you just think about...Miki continuosly beats Mao in competitions...The Popularity in Japan will surely...DECLINE !
Miki reminds me Michelle...a consistent skater who is capable of winning... without a facinating trick or beauty.
If it's not beautiful...why do people watch skating?...they will rather watch SECTACULAR GYMNASTICS or somethingelse instead.

Even though Michelle created her fans more than any other skaters in the US history by winning so many competitions...
I strongly believe...Michelle's long reign in the US...damaged the popularity of skating...more than any other factors.

I have all kinds of snark for this statement but I will put that on the shelf and be mature... The decline of US Skating is because of the US Federation. Period. Their lack of vision and marketing skill is the reason skating has declined in this country. Kwan's long reign of terror was gift to USFSA and instead of leveraging the passion ignited by her fans and detractors alike, they just sat around in their ivory tower and didn't do the work necessary.

Its also silly to put that at Kwan's feet that casual fans left in droves once she moved on - you can't blame her that with the exception of MiRai the new generation didn't have the "IT Factor" or Star Quality to draw the crowds. That's like blaming the ice cream because you're fat.

Michelle...at least...won...many competitions for her fans.

Don't get it twisted, Kwan won for herself - and maybe for her daddy. And that's why we love her...

I just want to clarify the REAL REASON of declining popularity of skating to Michelle fans.
As an athlete...Michelle is a Kween or whatever...
But as an artist...she is nothing more than average.

Overall...Michelle was JUST OK.

And chili cheese fries are JUST Ok. Jimmy Choos are JUST Ok. Cash held in a Swedish Bank Account is JUST Ok. Do you see where I'm going with this? Silly rabbit.

First of all - this is the wrong thread to continue this line of discussion.
Second of all: Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

JUST OK? Me looking at your nick SkatingAnalyst weirdly!
(wonder where you qualify your Analyst bit?)

rofl: Stop it... you're killing me...
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
:love: Big ol' kisses sent to you...



I have all kinds of snark for this statement but I will put that on the shelf and be mature... The decline of US Skating is because of the US Federation. Period. Their lack of vision and marketing skill is the reason skating has declined in this country. Kwan's long reign of terror was gift to USFSA and instead of leveraging the passion ignited by her fans and detractors alike, they just sat around in their ivory tower and didn't do the work necessary.

Its also silly to put that at Kwan's feet that casual fans left in droves once she moved on - you can't blame her that with the exception of MiRai the new generation didn't have the "IT Factor" or Star Quality to draw the crowds. That's like blaming the ice cream because you're fat.



Don't get it twisted, Kwan won for herself - and maybe for her daddy. And that's why we love her...



And chili cheese fries are JUST Ok. Jimmy Choos are JUST Ok. Cash held in a Swedish Bank Account is JUST Ok. Do you see where I'm going with this? Silly rabbit.



rofl: Stop it... you're killing me...

I'm always sorry for Michelle fans whenever I write about Michelle's skating.

but...

It is about time for Michelle fans...to stop hype about Michelle...ESPECIALLY the ARTISTIC SIDE of HER SKATING.
She was NOT GREAT AT ALL to GENERAL AUDIENCE !
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
But that's simply not true and you know it... Its one thing to say you didn't like her skating but to make this blanket statement when it flies in the face of all logic and truth is just silly and you aren't a silly person. What? Did she suck her way to all those medals? I am not a fan of several skaters that others simply love - the best examples are Sasha and Yuna - but I can't claim any form of personal integrity or respect for this sport if I'm all "to a general audience, she was nothing special!" because that's not true. People love all three and all three have made the sport of figure skating better, more popular and certainly more profitable.

Fandom has nothing to do with that simple fact.

C'mon Skating Analyst - keep it real.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
OK. This thread has gotten out of control. Enough with the Michelle and Yuna bashing. :sheesh: Why do people feel the need to bash one in order to prop the other? Personally, I love both of them.

Michelle was what drew me into skating as a casual fan back in the late 90's and early 2000's. I lost interest after she left while her "heirs" did not rise to the challenge. Last time I watched was in 2006 stupidly hoping to see Sasha do the impossible win the Olympics. Didn't happen, and Kimmie bored me so I skipped the next two seasons. (Yes, the promising juniors Mao and Yuna did not catch my eye at the time since I completely ignored juniors then.) I returned for the 2008-2009 season and the US ladies were still a mess, but I finally found someone I liked and could root for--Yuna!
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
LOL! When a thread approaches the 150 page mark - rational, non bashing posting has long flown the coop! :) Fans will be Fans - espcially in the off season!
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
But that's simply not true and you know it... Its one thing to say you didn't like her skating but to make this blanket statement when it flies in the face of all logic and truth is just silly and you aren't a silly person. What? Did she suck her way to all those medals? I am not a fan of several skaters that others simply love - the best examples are Sasha and Yuna - but I can't claim any form of personal integrity or respect for this sport if I'm all "to a general audience, she was nothing special!" because that's not true. People love all three and all three have made the sport of figure skating better, more popular and certainly more profitable.

Fandom has nothing to do with that simple fact.


C'mon Skating Analyst - keep it real.
I'm really sorry for you...but I'll tell you where Michelle stands in Japan.

Michelle is practically NOBODY in Japan...Michelle is known to few as a silver medalist who was defeated by Tara.
Eight US TITLE does not mean anything to foreign skating fans.

Sasha is much more well known in Japan for her BEAUTIFUL SKATING despite of not-many winning.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I'm really sorry for you...but I'll tell you where Michelle stands in Japan.

Michelle is practically NOBODY in Japan...Michelle is known to few as a silver medalist who was defeated by Tara.
Eight US TITLE does not mean anything to foreign skating fans.

Sasha is much more well known in Japan for her BEAUTIFUL SKATING despite of not-many winning.

Your remarks lead me to believe you could not analyze your way out of a wet paper bag.

Many years ago another American skater won the OBM in Japan. She is still remembered in Japan today because of the way she skated.

The Japanese fans have shown they appreciate good skating and I doubt if there are many Japanese skating fans who do not know who Michelle Kwan is.
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Why be sorry for me? I have a great life. Last time I was in Toyko I had the opportunity to visit many spectacular sites and enjoyed the warm hospitality of the Japanese people. The most surprising thing? Not one person felt pity for me because I was a Michelle Kwan fan vs. a Sasha Cohen fan... Actually, most skaters and fans alike were discussing the Mao vs. Yuna rivalry. I was also blown away by the talent of the next generation of your skaters. But since I enjoy all that skating has to offer and try not to get hung up on others' bitterness, I will have to take your word for it on the opinion of the Japanese skating community.

So feel sorry for me all you like - I'm quite the happy camper and feel we should agree to disagree. Even though you are wrong.

And that's TEN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, FIVE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS for Kwan.
 
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