Yuna Kim

Eclair said:

hey guys, does anyone remember who would have been sent to worlds 2011 if yuna didn't go? In the 'ban on Carolina Kostner' thread yuna's name was brought up and they were discussing whether it was arrogant of yuna or not that she didn't attend korean nationals that year to 'earn' her spot.
My memory is failing me, but were there actually eligible skaters from korea at that time from whom she took the spot? Somehow I think that there was none. Can anyone recall the situation from then?

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According to the Wiki entry for 2011 Nats, only 3 skaters would have been age-eligible. (Kwak Minjeong, Kim Chaehwa, and Yun Yeaji; Minjeong ended up going with Yuna but failed to advance to the short program.) Chaehwa retired after 2011 4CC, and Yeaji carried on until 2012 4CC (her ISU bio stops there).

paperhearts said:

According to the Wiki entry for 2011 Nats, only 3 skaters would have been age-eligible. (Kwak Minjeong, Kim Chaehwa, and Yun Yeaji; Minjeong ended up going with Yuna but failed to advance to the short program.) Chaehwa retired after 2011 4CC, and Yeaji carried on until 2012 4CC (her ISU bio stops there).

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thanks paperhearts!
I somehow remember that some of them didn't get the minimum score to participate at worlds 2011, so that yuna didn't take away any spots from them, because they couldn't go anyway, is that correct?

For me, it doesn't matter if Yuna participated or not at Korean Nationals. She was the clear no. 1 and the only Korean skater who can win/medal at any international event. She's sooo far ahead of the others plus she's the reigning Olympic Champion. I agree with psusanne's comment in the other thread; that Yuna's very kind to let the other younger skaters have their own chance at being National Champ. If Yuna participated in Korean Nationals all the time, somehow I think that it's demotivating for other skaters because they will never have a chance of winning against Yuna and therefore never having the chance to be Korean National Champion.

Furthermore, I think there's not much upside to Yuna participating in the Nationals during her international reign. Not only is an additional competition physically draining, she doesn't need it to participate in international events. She's got more points than required to participate in any international event. I guess both Yuna's team and KSU valued international events more.

Some posters are just not very appreciative of Yuna so they take every chance to criticize her despite all the good things she's done for the sport and her fellow athletes. I don't get it sometimes. Haters gonna hate.

Eclair said:

thanks paperhearts!
I somehow remember that some of them didn't get the minimum score to participate at worlds 2011, so that yuna didn't take away any spots from them, because they couldn't go anyway, is that correct?

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No problem. I did some digging and found this ISU Communication which talks about the minimum TES for ISU Championships; 15 and 25 for the SP and the LP. Both skaters got them at 2011 4CC, though prior to that Yeaji had gotten them both the preceding season at both her JGPs (SP,FS,SP,FS) and Chaehwa at 2010 4CC (SP,FS).

They were both qualified, but as jenm said I don't think it's a fault of the Federation to choose Yuna over the two, considering that after Kwak Minjeong at 2011 Nats there was a big gap between her and Kim Chaehwa (who was 4th) and Yuna was the reigning Olympic champion just a year ago. She didn't compete at Nats from 2007 up to 2011, there's nothing much out of the ordinary (aside from her not having competed the GP series during the 2010-2011 Season). I just don't see what's arrogant about that, especially since Yuna wasn't the one choosing whether she should go to Worlds or not, haha. By competing at the 2011 World Championships she also gave her country 2 spots which gave skaters like Kwak Minjeong and Suhr Chaeyeon the privilege to advance to 2012 Worlds.

EDIT:
I channeled some negative energy I had a few hours ago into making an edit of Yuna's Nessun Dorma! Her spins are wonderful; I would've liked to use the other one with her hands in a T-position and her free leg up but the angle of the video didn't allow it to be used to I settled for her lovely cross-legged spin.

paperhearts said:

No problem. I did some digging and found this ISU Communication which talks about the minimum TES for ISU Championships; 15 and 25 for the SP and the LP. Both skaters got them at 2011 4CC, though prior to that Yeaji had gotten them both the preceding season at both her JGPs (SP,FS,SP,FS) and Chaehwa at 2010 4CC (SP,FS).

They were both qualified, but as jenm said I don't think it's a fault of the Federation to choose Yuna over the two, considering that after Kwak Minjeong at 2011 Nats there was a big gap between her and Kim Chaehwa (who was 4th) and Yuna was the reigning Olympic champion just a year ago. She didn't compete at Nats from 2007 up to 2011, there's nothing much out of the ordinary (aside from her not having competed the GP series during the 2010-2011 Season). I just don't see what's arrogant about that, especially since Yuna wasn't the one choosing whether she should go to Worlds or not, haha. By competing at the 2011 World Championships she also gave her country 2 spots which gave skaters like Kwak Minjeong and Suhr Chaeyeon the privilege to advance to 2012 Worlds.

EDIT:
I channeled some negative energy I had a few hours ago into making an edit of Yuna's Nessun Dorma! Her spins are wonderful; I would've liked to use the other one with her hands in a T-position and her free leg up but the angle of the video didn't allow it to be used to I settled for her lovely cross-legged spin.

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Thanks again paperhearts!
In the mean time some people in the carolina thread have also added, that there is a rule in korea that if you podium at worlds you're guaranteed a worlds spot next year

Now that I think about it, Yuna has not participated in nationals that much in her career. In fact, from what I know, she only participated in 2013 nationals to get a spot for worlds, and she only participated in 2014 nationals because she only had participated in the Golden Spin of Zagreb that season and it would've been a bit more difficult to have the next competition be the Olympics right away.

I can't help but think of Yuna in the current figure skating world. With all the inflated and insane scoring going on, it's very likely that someone will be breaking Yuna's two WRs very soon. Yuna, along with Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki, and Carolina Kostner were some of the most artistic skaters ever and they were all respected veterans. Nobody in the current field (other than Mao herself, of course) is topping them in artistry right now, and I have a feeling that it will stay like that for a long time.

randomfan said:

I can't help but think of Yuna in the current figure skating world. With all the inflated and insane scoring going on, it's very likely that someone will be breaking Yuna's two WRs very soon. Yuna, along with Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki, and Carolina Kostner were some of the most artistic skaters ever and they were all respected veterans. Nobody in the current field (other than Mao herself, of course) is topping them in artistry right now, and I have a feeling that it will stay like that for a long time.

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I've been thinking about this as well. The Men's world record keeps getting broken, but the ladies WR hasn't changed in the last five years besides Mao Asada's SP at 2014. I used to think that only Mao was capable of beating Yuna's record, but with elevated tech (and PCS that automatically inflates along with it), I'm curious to see how soon it'll be broken. Officially, that is (since nationals scoring can be a bit ... )

paperhearts said:

[English isn't my main language, I'm sorry for rambling... I just had some Yuna feelings after Christmas Day.]

It's Nationals season once again (though not yet in Korea) but I was just rewatching Yuna's lovely short program from her final Nationals. I was reading about Send in the Clowns for a small project a few days ago and read a quote by Stephen Sondheim, the writer of the song:



I think that along with Adios Nonino, it's a very meaningful goodbye from her. Perhaps it has been discussed many times before, but it's always interesting for me to know about the meanings behind the music each skater chooses. I interpret it as something like "Loved too early and reciprocated too late," regretful because of what could've been and anger because of what should've been, so send in the clowns to distract from all that is falling apart. Considering the mood of regretfulness, I do wonder what Yuna regrets in her career. Knowing the meaning of the song she chose, her short feels even more poignant and touching.

I always thought her Les Miserables was her greatest program post-Vancouver and that it should've had the honor of being skated as her final Olympic performance with all it's power and spirit, but I've grown to appreciate her two final programs too. SITC was her regrets, Adios Nonino was her proper goodbye. It was written by Piazolla after his father's death and he was quoted as saying:



It was as if Yuna left all of her memories of her career in that final skate in Sochi, much like how Piazolla left his memories of his father in his Adios Nonino. I still think Les Miserables was Yuna's greatest program post-Vancouver, but it wouldn't have carried as much meaning as Adios Nonino and/or Send in the Clowns.

Did that make sense? I'm sorry, it's late and midnight + rewatching my faves always gives me feelings... :sad21: I don't know if that made sense to anyone else but me, but I hope y'all understood what I mean, haha. Now I must .

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You are sooo right in your observation. Actually I have noticed all of her post Vancouver programs can be seen in context of Yuna - the skater, the human being, the artist experienced and expressed as extension of her true self at the time. As a result, I really think she lived, worked, thought and expressed like an Artist (sensitivity, stubbornness, purity in pursuing a vision of the program) , even though she has only ever refer to herself as an athlete. Her programs very much covers many concepts of her emotional state and bring aspect of her self reflection in that particular season. She is the rare skater who truly deliver these to her work. Each of her program chronologically shows her growth as a person, an artist, as a procession. None of the program were done too early or too late... in what they eventually becomes, they were earnestly sequenced to tell a tale of Yuna Kim perfectly. Any of the program done earlier or later, would seem wrong.

For any artwork to be considered a masterpiece, the end product does not exist in isolation, for it must be observed in context, how it came to be, the process behind it. What happened before and after it, and whether the progress and concept behind it are of quality decision making and execution. I don't think there's anything I'd like to change, weirdly, even the bitter sweet ending which seem to reflect the mood of Adios Nonino so well. That the music of solitary figure, blues, jazz, gypsies, rule breakers, farewell...


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It is fairly clear what ISU/Russia are trying desperately to do these past 2 seasons by inflating the score so much. Attempting to mask unprecedented level of inflation during Sochi season by establishing this ALL NEW trend, so Sochi season inflation wouldn't look so outrageous. It is perfectly predictable they'd do this... but how artificial they did with a newbie skater after the Russian veterans failed really show their true colours (partly to close the gate in case of other nationality high PCS veteran skaters returns.) it just how unnatural the whole sport is behaving and how ridiculous it has become.

solar said:

I've been thinking about this as well. The Men's world record keeps getting broken, but the ladies WR hasn't changed in the last five years besides Mao Asada's SP at 2014. I used to think that only Mao was capable of beating Yuna's record, but with elevated tech (and PCS that automatically inflates along with it), I'm curious to see how soon it'll be broken. Officially, that is (since nationals scoring can be a bit ... )

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Evegnia might break the long and combined WR at Euros. If not Euros, then Worlds. I feel a bit disgusted by that bc her PCS is outrageous. As good as she is, her current LP and execution of it do not deserve to be held up as the standard of female skating.

lilahozi said:

Evegnia might break the long and combined WR at Euros. If not Euros, then Worlds. I feel a bit disgusted by that bc her PCS is outrageous. As good as she is, her current LP and execution of it do not deserve to be held up as the standard of female skating.

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Ehhh I'm not too sure how I feel about that. I guess what irritates me is that PCS seem to just automatically rise when the technical score is high. They should be scored separately. But that's off topic I loved the refined quality that Yuna skates with. Her movements are so effortless - especially her jump landings! Some skaters have kind of 'awkward' landings that seem slightly unrefined, but hers always seemed extraordinarily graceful. Her and Mao were the first two skaters I really watched, so my standards were set quite high from the start

Eclair said:

Thanks again paperhearts!
In the mean time some people in the carolina thread have also added, that there is a rule in korea that if you podium at worlds you're guaranteed a worlds spot next year

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No problem! Wow, I didn't know that-- that makes Yuna even more commendable after competing at 2014 Nats even being the World Champ.

OS said:

You are sooo right in your observation. Actually I have noticed all of her post Vancouver programs can be seen in context of Yuna - the skater, the human being, the artist experienced and expressed as extension of her true self at the time. As a result, I really think she lived, worked, thought and expressed like an Artist (sensitivity, stubbornness, purity in pursuing a vision of the program) , even though she has ever just refer to herself as an athlete. Her programs very much covers many concepts of her emotional state and bring aspect of herself and self reflection in that particular season. She is the rare skater who truly deliver these to her work. Each of her program chronologically shows her growth as a person, an artist, as a procession. None of the program were done too early or too late... in what they eventually becomes, they were earnestly sequenced to tell a tale of Yuna Kim perfectly. Any of the program done earlier or later, would seem wrong.

For any artwork to be considered a masterpiece, the end product does not exist in isolation, for it must be observed in context, how it came to be, the process behind it. What happened before and after it, and whether the progress and concept behind it are of quality decision making and execution. I don't think there's anything I'd like to change, weirdly, even the bitter sweet ending which seem to reflect the mood of Adios Nonino so well. That the music of solitary figure, blues, jazz, gypsies, rule breakers, farewell...

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I don't think I can add much more to what you have said because you summarized my feelings perfectly. Kudos to her and David Wilson for making a storybook of sorts through her programs, telling the epic of the legend, Yuna Kim.

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As for Evgenia possibly breaking the WR, I can't help but feel like it's not yet the right time for her to claim the top spot. She's a wonderful skater, perhaps one of the best Russia has produced, and much like Yuna she's got nerves of steel and amazing consistency (based on her first senior year) but I think it would not be beneficial to her growth to be given that title as of now. She's growing and learning, the added pressure of competing with the WR might affect her mentally and emotionally and I'm sure there will be more critics of her.

I don't think she's at the level of Mao, Yuna, Caro, Akiko, etc either, but if the judges will give her high PCS and TES scores on a silver platter anyway then I hope she works on it.

solar said:

Ehhh I'm not too sure how I feel about that. I guess what irritates me is that PCS seem to just automatically rise when the technical score is high. They should be scored separately. But that's off topic I loved the refined quality that Yuna skates with. Her movements are so effortless - especially her jump landings! Some skaters have kind of 'awkward' landings that seem slightly unrefined, but hers always seemed extraordinarily graceful. Her and Mao were the first two skaters I really watched, so my standards were set quite high from the start

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Agreed. :agree2: Her landings are just wonderful, off the top of my head I remember her 2nd Lutz from her 2010 Olympic FS and her landing and exit was breathtaking.

You know, I don't mind Yuna's records being broken - when someone puts in a performance worth it like Mao did at 2014 Worlds; both technically and artistically!

paperhearts said:

No problem! Wow, I didn't know that-- that makes Yuna even more commendable after competing at 2014 Nats even being the World Champ.



I don't think I can add much more to what you have said because you summarized my feelings perfectly. Kudos to her and David Wilson for making a storybook of sorts through her programs, telling the epic of the legend, Yuna Kim.

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As for Evgenia possibly breaking the WR, I can't help but feel like it's not yet the right time for her to claim the top spot. She's a wonderful skater, perhaps one of the best Russia has produced, and much like Yuna she's got nerves of steel and amazing consistency (based on her first senior year) but I think it would not be beneficial to her growth to be given that title as of now. She's growing and learning, the added pressure of competing with the WR might affect her mentally and emotionally and I'm sure there will be more critics of her.

I don't think she's at the level of Mao, Yuna, Caro, Akiko, etc either, but if the judges will give her high PCS and TES scores on a silver platter anyway then I hope she works on it.



Agreed. :agree2: Her landings are just wonderful, off the top of my head I remember her 2nd Lutz from her 2010 Olympic FS and her landing and exit was breathtaking.

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I think it's not that difficult for prepubertarian 15 year olds (even with flawed technique) to have high technical content - e.g julia lipnitskaia. But if the sport continue to reward that, then we'll have a different 16 year old world champ every year, while the last one getting buried under puberty.

Evgenia getting pcs as high is Mao is just a travesty. We don't see Boyang getting Hanyu's PCS either just because his tech content is so high. No, Boyang gets Voronovs PCS range (even a little below that) and Evgenia should be treated the same.

I honestly don't understand what the judges are thinking..

paperhearts said:

I channeled some negative energy I had a few hours ago into making an edit of Yuna's Nessun Dorma! Her spins are wonderful; I would've liked to use the other one with her hands in a T-position and her free leg up but the angle of the video didn't allow it to be used to I settled for her lovely cross-legged spin.

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you know, whenever i watch her Nessun Dorma she reminds me of a porcelain doll and you just made it real

OS said:

You are sooo right in your observation. Actually I have noticed all of her post Vancouver programs can be seen in context of Yuna - the skater, the human being, the artist experienced and expressed as extension of her true self at the time. As a result, I really think she lived, worked, thought and expressed like an Artist (sensitivity, stubbornness, purity in pursuing a vision of the program) , even though she has only ever refer to herself as an athlete. Her programs very much covers many concepts of her emotional state and bring aspect of her self reflection in that particular season. She is the rare skater who truly deliver these to her work. Each of her program chronologically shows her growth as a person, an artist, as a procession. None of the program were done too early or too late... in what they eventually becomes, they were earnestly sequenced to tell a tale of Yuna Kim perfectly. Any of the program done earlier or later, would seem wrong.

For any artwork to be considered a masterpiece, the end product does not exist in isolation, for it must be observed in context, how it came to be, the process behind it. What happened before and after it, and whether the progress and concept behind it are of quality decision making and execution. I don't think there's anything I'd like to change, weirdly, even the bitter sweet ending which seem to reflect the mood of Adios Nonino so well. That the music of solitary figure, blues, jazz, gypsies, rule breakers, farewell...


-------

It is fairly clear what ISU/Russia are trying desperately to do these past 2 seasons by inflating the score so much. Attempting to mask unprecedented level of inflation during Sochi season by establishing this ALL NEW trend, so Sochi season inflation wouldn't look so outrageous. It is perfectly predictable they'd do this... but how artificial they did with a newbie skater after the Russian veterans failed really show their true colours (partly to close the gate in case of other nationality high PCS veteran skaters returns.) it just how unnatural the whole sport is behaving and how ridiculous it has become.

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Interesting theory. I don't know if I agree with it however I can see how increasing scores can be PERCEIVED as diminishing previous record scores. I don't agree with that either. If everyone today can still talk up skaters like Sonja Henie, Witt, etc. then they are just as likely to continue talking up Yuna's preeminence in the same fashion. Her detractors have always been her detractors and they might try to throw shade her way via these greater scores but people willing to look past their prejudices acknowledge that she is more than just her scores in a way that is pretty much unlike any skater who came before her. No one can dispute that she was like this bright comet coming from the most unlikely of far away places and she shined brightly like no one before her ever had. I have no problem with young up and comers and their high scores because even with those high scores they have yet to reach her levels of charisma; that ability to suck the air out of every room or ice rink she ever entered. She is still the most charismatic skater since Kwan and probably even more so; Kwan at least had the benefit of a strong skating culture and ice federation. Yuna had neither. And only someone like Yuna could lose in the Olympics and yet become even more legendary. No, I'm not losing sleep worrying about Yuna's legacy.

By the way, has anyone seen this little gem I happened on? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyrVfDeV-wE It's a retrospective of Yuna's full career with her commentary. I especially loved how elegant she looks here. Absolutely beautiful and I think I like her best with her hair up like she is here. Just so.... I don't understand Korean but I didn't care; some new stuff I never saw before and of course the divine one herself.

creaturelover said:

You know, I don't mind Yuna's records being broken - when someone puts in a performance worth it like Mao did at 2014 Worlds; both technically and artistically!

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Same here. But by the way the scoring works right now, we might see premature world records by Europeans or Worlds 2016.

I remember I was too excited when Mao broke Yuna's WR with her Nocturne SP at Worlds 2014. I think in the field then, she's the only one worthy of it. Although in my opinion, as I have stated multiple times, Send in the Clowns should have been the new WR and should have broken 80 pts like Yuna's score in Korean Nationals. And people thought her score of 80 pts there was inflated. Look at what's happening now. lol

My very first post here. Although I'm a fan of Yuna, I joined the GS after her retirement and the whole Sochi things, so I was not so inclined to leave posts here in a cheerful mood which I usually do in other skaters' fanfests. I always think that skaters in active for competition need extra supports and feedback from fans, while she seems doing pretty well after the retirement.

However, I think being a fan of her here is demanding a great amount of energy and time to people like me who wants to remain a casual figure skating lover. I lurked the forum sporadically before GS allowed the viewing to only registered users, and sensed that many sensible people left the forum or quit leaving posts after Sochi; totally understandable. It is kind of weary to talk with people with different views including trolls. I wonder why people can't be happy just with their favorite skaters.

I hope to her new EX programs and shows in a near future because we know she is so special on ice.

She is such an incredible and unique athlete, I would never rule out the possibility that she would consider a return just for the 2018 Pyeongchang Olympics. Just sayin'

Tallorder said:

She is such an incredible and unique athlete, I would never rule out the possibility that she would consider a return just for the 2018 Pyeongchang Olympics. Just sayin'

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I would. I take her at her word that Sochi was her "Swan Song". I wish people and especially fans would stop questioning her resolve and by resolve I mean to the degree that it also includes any "official" pressure as well.

Some news about Yuna
http://www.soompi.com/2016/01/04/yuna-kim-to-model-for-cosmetics-brand-its-skin/