Dube and Davison Bring Judges To Tears | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Dube and Davison Bring Judges To Tears

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
*cough* Shen/Zhao *cough*

Yes, they have more of a connection than the others but I would say that Jess and Bryce are better at displaying it, imo. I don't quite get all the excitment over S/Z this year. I love them but their programs don't do much for me.

Anyways, I really loved S/P's Orchid too. I certainly would be griping about the pairs debacle at 2002 SLC a lot less if S/P had skated to Orchid perfectly in the LP. If I recall correctly, S/P switched away from Orchid to Love Story because they weren't able to skate to Orchid cleanly all season--I would hazard a guess and say they chose Love Story because it was easier to skate to cleanly than Orchid, which had more complex choreography.

Their SC performance of it was exquisite - she only doubled a throw I think. I so wish they had stuck with it.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Oooooh, i love to skate, them's fighting words about Shen/Zhao.

I'm actually surprised at how much the D/D long program lacked schmaltz, truth be told. The music is definitely sappy, but the story itself (both in the film and on the ice) is cannier than that.
 
N

n_halifax

Guest
They deserve only scorn for that hopelessly schmaltzy long program. I know the French love cheese, but apparently, so do French Canadians. A judge that is emotionally susceptible to that mess is as suspect as one susceptible to bribery of any other kind.

Human beings have these things called emotions.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I think D/D's connection is very overrated. Honestly, I think Jessica's been phoning it in for a while and fainting schoolgirl is the only thing she can pull off on the ice, hence all their lovey dovey programs. I sometimes wish Bryce had a different partner so he could try different styles. Also their programs are really empty, choreographically speaking! (though they're not the only ones)

They had a solid skated here, but unless the top skaters make mistakes, I can't see them medaling.
 
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aurora100

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Dube and Davison skated fine enough, their best all season. But I don't believe they skated any where near Sale and Pelletier in 2001/02 season, which some (Canadian Journalists) compared them to. D & D, especially Dube is way too cautious and reserved, nothing like Sale with her mega watt spark and confidence that went right up to the rafters. I saw them win the Nationals and the Words in person. She dared us, with her "look to kill" to think of them anything but the best and they were the best. They truly believed it. They worked it and they willed it. I don't see and have not in four years, anything near that in performance, confidence or attitude in D & D. I know they were supposed to take S & P mantle for Canada but it's a heavy burden to meet and they have not. With their best performance, they would do well to be in top 10 at the Olympics. And I am an ardent Canadian figure skating fan.
 

Axel Rose

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
I can see why people would compare this to Love Story. I certainly thought of it. Schmaltzy music, grey costumes, and the re-enactment of key moments from the movie - for Love Story, it was the snowball fight, while for The Way We Were, it's the Hubbell Hair Tussle. I think they performed their program beautifully, but while I usually feel like I'm drawn to them when I watch them for the first time, I do find that I don't want to watch their performance when it's replayed.

Then again, judges only need to watch it once, when it's live.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Wow...A bit harsh on Jessica...I was at that world's. It was swe-e-e-et , to say the least. I adored Jamie's spunk but I can appreciate a gentler on ice-persona equally. You certainly can't fault Jess on her air positions, daring..her jumps may be stronger..

You can tell from my previous posts that I don't want to compare the couples outright. Let them be individual. However, if we must...if there's a weak link here , it's Bryce. I can't see that he's ever put much work into his extensions ,e.g. He may be sure footed and a reliable partner. I believe he is, but he's never really tried to look her equal. I don't know how he can go out on the ice looking like he's just someone they grabbed out of the stands or the parking lot ( This costume is not the first trangression.)
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I know they were supposed to take S & P mantle for Canada but it's a heavy burden to meet and they have not. With their best performance, they would do well to be in top 10 at the Olympics. And I am an ardent Canadian figure skating fan.

I'm sorry, but in four Worlds and one Olympics, D/D have never been out of the top ten. I don't think it requires their best performance. I don't know if they can crack the top five (which would be an estimable achievement with this field), but top ten is assured barring a disaster.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Yeah, what he/she (ImaginaryPogue) said...

There's no use pretending that they are top contenders for gold ,or even (in this rich,rich year ) for the podium .They are very good. They need to skate their very best. Then it will all depend on how many teams can do that... that's sport.

And L/H could be right there with them , if they keep progressing the way they have.
 
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~tapdancer

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Canadian judges must cry a lot.

Seems like I heard this very same thing about V/M's FD at Thornhill.
 

Fae

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
This LP is slowly growing on me...like mould :) (And yes, their costumes sadly remind me of mould...why...WHY! would you put such 2 attractive people in such a blahhh costume. It's not even...BAD.....it's just...blah)

I wish they would do something else a bit more different but they don't seem to be very comfortable doing non-romantic stuff. (Case in point --> Requiem for a Dream SP. Meh)

Glad they did well for the nationals...Am so psyched for the pairs event at olympics! =D
 

nevergonnadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
I don't think Bryce is the weak link. I think Jessica might have stronger individual skating skills, if even that - maybe just stronger extension and line, but I think Bryce is the stronger, more natural performer and pairs skater. He creates the team in that team. Bryce especially uses his hands very well, phrases the music and choreography very organically with them and is the one who creates what emotional shadings there are in the program. Of the two, he's way more dynamic and a pairs team needs a little of that.

I don't think the program is empty choreographically - there's nice in betweens, the ina bauers into the second throw, the sweep Jessica does around the ice and back to Bryce after the first throw, some of the transitions, the mood changes in the final pairs spin expressed by position changes - I think it's well put together. However, Canada makes a huge deal that chemistry is the thing that D&D bring to the table that the other couples lack, and IMO that's delusional. S&S have a very similar program in Out of Africa (thwarted love, lovers turning away and separated at the end) and a lovely connection on the ice. S/Z have beautiful presentation, especially her, AND a lovely connection on the ice. Both of those teams skate with heart that D&D cannot claim to surpass.

Zang and Zang, I'll give it to D&D every day of the week. M&T - they don't exude warmth, but they are very LIGHT, clean and smooth, and sometimes D&D clunk.

Bryce once said that what they really need to work on is GOES and I agree with that and I look to Jessica for it. For example, even in this skate, she audibly "thunked" down from one lift, and the first time she skated Way We Were, she dropped her skate down heavily coming up out of a death spiral. She's got lovely "static" positions - positions when they are held, but sometimes when she's actually moving out of them she can be a little leg heavy or body heavy in how she holds herself.
 
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i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
I don't think Bryce is the weak link. I think Jessica might have stronger individual skating skills, if even that - maybe just stronger extension and line, but I think Bryce is the stronger, more natural performer and pairs skater. He creates the team in that team. Bryce especially uses his hands very well, phrases the music and choreography very organically with them and is the one who creates what emotional shadings there are in the program. Of the two, he's way more dynamic and a pairs team needs a little of that.

I don't think the program is empty choreographically - there's nice in betweens, the ina bauers into the second throw, the sweep Jessica does around the ice and back to Bryce after the first throw, some of the transitions, the mood changes in the final pairs spin expressed by position changes - I think it's well put together. However, Canada makes a huge deal that chemistry is the thing that D&D bring to the table that the other couples lack, and IMO that's delusional. S&S have a very similar program in Out of Africa (thwarted love, lovers turning away and separated at the end) and a lovely connection on the ice. S/Z have beautiful presentation, especially her, AND a lovely connection on the ice. Both of those teams skate with heart that D&D cannot claim to surpass.

The program is very well put together, I agree. I also agree that S/Z have a connection but I wouldn't say that S/S have near as much of a connection as Jess and Bryce. What seperates Jess and Bryce from S/S in the area of connection, is that their story is real - they were together and now they aren't and this whole year and program has been dedicated to them getting back to that positive space they had when they were together. S/S are a very good team and have great tricks but connection is not something I see from them, IMO. Besides, S/Z, Jess and Bryce or the only team which bring honest chemistry to the ice.

Bryce once said that what they really need to work on is GOES and I agree with that and I look to Jessica for it. For example, even in this skate, she audibly "thunked" down from one lift, and the first time she skated Way We Were, she dropped her skate down heavily coming up out of a death spiral. She's got lovely "static" positions - positions when they are held, but sometimes when she's actually moving out of them she can be a little leg heavy or body heavy in how she holds herself.

I think it was the short program at TEB where she dropped her foot - as their arms kind of weakened at the spiral collapsed on the exit. One thing I really noticed an improvement in was her body position in the one hand overhead lift. Usually, she is leaning forwards but her position was much more upright than it is been in the past. As for lines, the spiral sequences for pairs should be scrapped as many of them men cannot achieve a nice position - such as Bryce's. Jessica lowered her leg this time in the first spiral though, so their line was matched, which I was happy to see.
 

nevergonnadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
We're going to disagree on S&S - Out of Africa brought the audience to its feet the first time it was skated. I think they have a very natural and palpable chemistry in both their short program and their new long.

A personal history may have meaning to the skaters and help them perform, but that's not the type of thing that matters to CoP or even under the 6.0 system. I don't think "it's real" makes much difference. It's what is actually present on the ice that matters, not where it came from.

Ideally, I think, a sense of performance instead of just rote element execution helps the program and the judges are looking for that, so D&D, S&Z and S&S all can create that. However, it's not a void D&D fill. They can't count on being the ones who skate like a pair while everyone else has the "big tricks". The other two have big tricks, skate like a pair, and create a beautiful performance as well. And what M&T do, while not warm and fuzzy, is clean and pretty, sharp and smooth, which also creates a mood (IOW, it's not necessarily about acting or "emotion")
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
A personal history may have meaning to the skaters and help them perform, but that's not the type of thing that matters to CoP or even under the 6.0 system. I don't think "it's real" makes much difference. It's what is actually present on the ice that matters, not where it came from.

It matters to me as a fan. People have been raving about Jess and Bryce's skate - including past Olympians, other skaters, judges, commentators, reporters, etc. Many people had tears in their eyes so I think people do appreciate a performance that is "real". When you skate a program as well as they did and have that moment where you can hear a pin drop because the audience is so involved I think that is something special. This is the ideal performance from a pairs team.

Ideally, I think, a sense of performance instead of just rote element execution helps the program and the judges are looking for that, so D&D, S&Z and S&S all can create that. However, it's not a void D&D fill. They can't count on being the ones who skate like a pair while everyone else has the "big tricks". The other two have big tricks, skate like a pair, and create a beautiful performance as well. And what M&T do, while not warm and fuzzy, is clean and pretty, sharp and smooth, which also creates a mood (IOW, it's not necessarily about acting or "emotion")

Like I said, I think S/S are a great pair they just don't do it for me. I love S/Z but I don't think M/T create a mood at all. They don't even look at each other when they perform. They get the job done but since they brought in Love Story to work and involve the Canadian crowd at the Oylmpics - I expect more of a performance factor. It just isn't going to work if they keep skating it the way they do - especially if they skate anywhere near Jess and Bryce.
 

stickle

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
It matters to me as a fan. People have been raving about Jess and Bryce's skate - including past Olympians, other skaters, judges, commentators, reporters, etc. Many people had tears in their eyes so I think people do appreciate a performance that is "real". When you skate a program as well as they did and have that moment where you can hear a pin drop because the audience is so involved I think that is something special. This is the ideal performance from a pairs team.
It matters to me too i love to skate. When a pairs performance results in my heart in my throat because I am so caught up in the emotion they're portraying, when I hardly notice the difficulty of the tricks because they've become a seamless part of the show, that, to me, is the ultimate. I only felt that way about one other performance and that was Jamie and David's. I love pairs skating, it is my favourite discipline of them all, but when I see them just doing stroke stroke stroke, flail arms a bit, jump, stroke stroke stroke, throw, stroke, lift, flail arms a bit more...you get the picture...I don't get emotionally involved. I can admire the height and the speed and the intricacy of the the tricks, but if I am entertained and left breathless by what I've just experienced, that is worth high marks to me. They've included me in their moment and that's priceless.
 

oxade21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
At Euros, K/S circus valse kicked S/S Out of Africa in the gut, audiencewise. Tallinn didn't really buy that program as much.:(

I wonder if there was any Russian judge crying at D/D:)
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
It matters to me as a fan. People have been raving about Jess and Bryce's skate - including past Olympians, other skaters, judges, commentators, reporters, etc. Many people had tears in their eyes so I think people do appreciate a performance that is "real". When you skate a program as well as they did and have that moment where you can hear a pin drop because the audience is so involved I think that is something special. This is the ideal performance from a pairs team.

I admit, I've never been moved to actual tears by a skate (except, er, tears of laughter) but I don't think a "real" personal history is necessarily important in creating that special moment of connection/pinnacle of performance and audience involvement, etc for a pairs team. I would have to agree with nevergonnadance about S/S--I was at Skate Canada when S/S first debuted their Out of Africa LP, and I would honestly say that they really had a wonderful, subtle chemistry that wasn't overtly romantic, but was still palable and definitely created a moment. I would think the rest of the audience agreed too, since S/S received a full standing ovation.

I guess that I'm not necessarily that fond of the conflation of romance and pair skating--the most memorable and moving performances for me (e.g. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze's Lady Caliph, Mishkutenok/Dmitriev's Rachmaninoff, Shen/Zhao's Turandot, heck, even Mukhortova/Trankov's Pink Floyd), none of them were really overtly romantic or brought their personal history onto the table, but they were splendid performances, had the 'big tricks' and were beautiful to me in a way that, well, D/D never were, even with their romance and all (no offense to D/D, of course).
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
My points have mostly been made, but I will add that a sense of story off the ice tends to give things more punch, even if it's inadvertent. It can be simply having a great comeback skate on home ice.

Now, I think D/D's skate is exceedingly well choreographed
 
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