Championship Ladies FS | Page 35 | Golden Skate

Championship Ladies FS

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
I'm just shocked at Sasha performing so badly. Level 1 footwork? Taking out the layback and triple toe? I'm so... I don't know, not angry like I would have been a few years ago, just confused. She was so stiff and not her usual self. USFSA told her to "get lost" with the PCS in the short and again in the long. In the short I felt she didn't even have her old spark.

Congrats Rachael and Mirai.

I wonder if Sasha's back is bothering her a bit. I didn't think her layback looked as good as it has in the SP-not as much stretch and slowed considerably. Granted we have been spoiled by Caroline, Alissa and Mirai, but Sasha always had a lovely layback with speed (save for the beillmann position). I would assume that is why she left it out of her LP. What hurt her was not getting a level 4 on the FCoSp then-instead of what could've been a 3.43 if level 4, it was a 2.93 Vs the 3.27 she got for her level 4 layback in the SP.

My guess for omitting the 3toe-she was training a 3f/3t, and was to repeat the flip and salchow for more points.

I thought Sasha skated great in the SP, had speed and flare. In the LP, she just looked tentative, slow, as if she believed as long as she stayed upright, she'd win. I guess she really did underestimate how tough a comeback would be, otherwise I think she would've done all she could to compete last season. That is what killed her chances.

I do feel bad for her, but hard to feel sorry when she made the choices she did. I'm sure she'll be a huge hit on SOI and if anything good comes out of this whole deal, it is she did get a lot of press and love. This AM, the 1st thing my mom said when I called her was,"Oh, that figure skater didn't make the team!" I knew she was talking about Sasha, but said,"Which one?" She said,"Umm...the one they've been talking about and showing on NBC all week..."

Looking forward to seeing what Sasha does in the gala today-I presume she is doing "DSTM" but hoping for something new!
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Um, it's called being nervous, and not competition-sharp? This would be a pretty tough competition for anyone to be making their season debut at.....

Sasha did pretty much as well as I anticipated - maybe very slightly better. She turned out not to be sharp enough to pull it all off, but there was fight there.
She did a strong SP and fought in the FP. I had a bad feeling when she didn't do triples or runthroughs in practice on Friday or Saturday. I figured she was saving her strength, but still, to launch into such a big program without enough practice... it didn't sound promising. So I was disappointed, but not shocked, at the outcome. And she didn't seem surprised either. She could well have been skating through pain - like a return of that tendinitis.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Has this been posted? (NY Times article on how the COP played out last night.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/sports/olympics/25rings.html
As Mirai Nagasu completed her stirring free skate Saturday night, the crowd at Spokane Arena leapt to its feet in raucous applause. A hail of toy animals rained onto the ice. Clearly, most in attendance thought that Nagasu had won the United States Figure Skating championship.

Except that she had not.

Even some of the sport’s most astute experts were stumped.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
I really didn't take the lack of triples in practice to be a big warning flare. Many have reported n the past that Sasha doesn't always do her triples in those practices, and usually just marks them in her run throughs. For me, what was pretty telling has been Mr. Nicks' interviews leading up to Nationals. Before, he was kind of cautiously optimistic, not,"Sasha is the best the US has to offer!" but how she has been working so hard and is not the 2006 Sasha. Then at Nationals, he started alluding if she just stays upright...That tells me her practices had been rough. She really was a different skater in the LP than SP. She even wobbled on her forward charlotte. I am shocked she didn't get hit with UR's though. Not a meltdown by any means, but a mess of a skate.

By contrast, Ashley, Rachael and Mirai brought it. They completely delivered under pressure, fought through their programs AND performed! That was amazing to see. Gao was also very impressive.

edited...Thanks for the link, SS. I agree, it was very hard to understand why Mirai was in 2nd last night. I thought her last 3t looked UR, but to my armchair eye, I thought all her jumps looked so big and completed, she used to be a more obvious UR when she'd do that weird straighten her blade out as she landed on an inside edge. I was SHOCKED she only got a 118 and that was only because I know somewhat what a good score would mean-I didn't know if she could beat 130+ that Rachael got, she had one less triple and the one obvious UR, but I expected her to be much closer. BUT the best part of it all was Mirai celebrated as if she won. She had the crowd on their feet and she was SO happy, even when she saw she "only" received a 118. I thought Rachael was overmarked, but I thought she would be better scored than her SA LP score, like around 125, give or take.

Well, hopefully being 2nd, and feeling like she was not a contender for the team, enables Mirai to go to Olympics with restored confidence, pressure free, to just enjoy the entire experience, and have an even better skate!
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Has this been posted? (NY Times article on how the COP played out last night.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/sports/olympics/25rings.html

Yes, it even has it's own topic.

It appears the Rachael supporters are the minority with both the experts and the audience that saw it Live last night.

It was obvious to me who had the better and more appealing presentation last night. Interesting to read that Mirai's dg's were questionable - similar perhaps to what happened to Yuna at the GPF where we saw the replay and how the techcaller obviously made a bad call.

The way Rachael beat Mirai was with alot of help from the tech panel. We saw it last night and fans have every right to be upset by this result which seems questionable at best.
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
It appears the Rachael supporters are the minority with both the experts and the audience that saw it Live last night.

Who are these experts? Scott Hamilton? He kept mentioning Rachael's consistency and what did he mention about Mirai? Nothing. He should have noted that she has a long history of edge calls and downgrades. Aren't you supposed to educate your viewers?


The way Rachael beat Mirai was with alot of help from the tech panel. We saw it last night and fans have every right to be upset by this result which seems questionable at best.

Go back and watch Mirai - she was short on rotation on those jumps. NBC should have shown them - again they f'd it up.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I just finished watching it on HD, slomo all the jumps that I suspect would be close myself. Mirai flutzed, UR on the 2A-3T without slomo.

I couldn't catch the other 2 in real time, but after reading the official protocol, I went back and checked and yes, they are URed.

Mirai has a chronic problem with UR. Didn't she UR 3 times at Skate Canada? You can't fix something like that in a month.

Mirai got two UR calls on DOUBLES at SC and two "e" calls on her lutzes, but all 5 triples there were ratified (she left out the 2a-3t, did 2a-2t instead). I really think if judges are going to be that hard on Mirai she just needs to rework her program like Akiko has done.

Mirai changed her 3lo-2t (which the 2t was UR at SC) to a 3lo-2a sequence which was smart (clean with at +1 GOE at nats) and changed her 3lz-2t-2lo (the loop was UR at SC) to a 3lz-2t-2t (no downgrade last night). Now she should just do a 3t-2a seq instead of a 2a-3t, because I know a sequence only gets 80% but if she can't get her 2a-3t ratified, the sequence will be worth more than a 2a-3t< with negative GOEs and she should get good GOEs on the sequence b/c she has a very nice 2a. Then she should just change the second 3lz to a 3f (which she doesn't get edge calls on and it's a better jump for her).

Akiko after getting dinged for lots of stuff at SC made similar changes and got better scores at the GPF. If the judges are going to be that hard on Mirai, she just needs to figure out a way to get around it. She has all the other skills, and the jumps too, with just a little tweaking of the layout I think she could place very high at the Olympics!

Also, she is on the world team too? So pumped! Anyone know who is going to Jr. Worlds? Is it Gao, Dobbs, and Zawadski?
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Who are these experts? Scott Hamilton? He kept mentioning Rachael's consistency and what did he mention about Mirai? Nothing. He should have noted that she has a long history of edge calls and downgrades. Aren't you supposed to educate your viewers?




Go back and watch Mirai - she was short on rotation on those jumps.

Apparently the calls were very questionable and I only see one. I also saw a pretty sloppy landing from Rachael too.

And please, don't try to convince me that you know more about skating than Scott. ;)
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
When did I say I did?

That was just in case you ever do say it ;)

It was clear who the TV audience and crowd in attendance thought the winner was.
For the good of skating this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Without taking sides it is clear the majority thought Mirai won. If Rachael really did win then it shoudn't be such a mystery or only understandable by the same few posters here who are willing to justify CoP to the death,

I think the tech panel gave Rachael that title last night and a problem is that most viewers thought Mirai won.

That is not a good formula for keeping a sport healthy.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Having a history of downgrades doesn't mean that reflects the quality of the jumps she had performed at nationals. NBC didn't show slow motion but her landings looked good unless she prerotates her jumps the cheats weren't apparent on the landings.


I think that since Sasha was out of the mix, the USFS wanted to send their most consistent girl with the National title and a big score. They know Rachel will put it down at the Olympics and Worlds so if she goes in with a National title maybe she well get a little more regard from the judges.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
By contrast, Ashley, Rachael and Mirai brought it. They completely delivered under pressure, fought through their programs AND performed! That was amazing to see. Gao was also very impressive.

Well, even though I am not convinced the final outcome was correct, I am so happy with the way those three girls delivered last night. U.S. nationals was absolutely the best women's competition of the season for me because of Ashley, Rachael and Mirai. (the rest of the girls gave us a splatfest.) I really enjoyed seeing how all three of those girls improved all season long. Knowing that there were only two spots for the Olympics _ and that Sasha could be a threat _ clearly pushed them hard and it really showed. I was stunned by the improved maturity in Mirai's skating. Even more, I was stunned that she delivered so forcefully skating last and after Rachael and Ashley laid it down. She has turned into a true champion. The best part about Ashley is that she does nothing badly. Every aspect of her skating is lovely to watch. And she has become so mentally tough. As for Rachael, she is simply not a favorite of mine but I have to admit that when I watch her land all her jumps I think, geez what is this girl MADE OF? I thought it was wonderful that the three U.S. medalists gave near-perfect LPs last night.

Sasha - I was bummed that her program was so mediocre. She wasn't ready. But her SP was awesome. And had she not tried this, she would have always wondered, what if? I still love her and there really is nothing more to say about Sasha and her comeback attempt.

Alissa. Even with her known tendency to flounder, I cannot believe she splatted her way down to 10th place. I guess she is simply incapable of skating under pressure. Ugh. Well, maybe next year when once again no one will expect anything from her she'll deliver another beautiful performance. Sigh.
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
That was just in case you ever do say it ;)

It was clear who the TV audience and crowd in attendance thought the winner was.
For the good of skating this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Without taking sides it is clear the majority thought Mirai won. If Rachael really did win then it shoudn't be such a mystery or only understandable by the same few posters here who are willing to justify CoP to the death,

I think the tech panel gave Rachael that title last night and a problem is that most viewers thought Mirai won.

That is not a good formula for keeping a sport healthy.

But you already have taken sides - Mirai's. I have nothing invested in who won or was going to the Olympics. If NBC had done what I suggested - mention Mirai's history of under-rotation calls and show the slo mos on replay - a lot of this would have been avoided. Either way Rachael attempted and landed one more triple than Mirai and got higher TES. Mirai was a bit higher on the PCS.

If you think the tech panel gave her the win - wouldn't you say that they handed Sasha second spot after the short when they ignored her flutz, two footed landing, and underrotation?
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Nagasu- WAY to show everyone who told you to wait until 2014 for your chance...no, your chance is NOW :rock:

Flatt- did really well, but I did think her LP lacked the flair of Nagasu's. I guess that's the Cop for you, but she did earn it.

Wagner- too bad. If we had a third spot she'd be on her way to Vancouver. Alas, she must stay home. It was the short that really did her in...At least she is the first alternate, though.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Okay, so people can fight about placement all they want but in the end, does it really matter that Rachael was first and Mirai second if both of them are going to the Olympics and Worlds anyways?

I mean last year, yeah, Rachael should have won, and this year, yeah, Mirai should have won. But I mean is it so bad that USFSA wanted Alissa to be a national champion last year and Rachael this year? Alissa and Rachael are both very dedicated and hard working, and in the case of last year and this year, it could have gone either way, maybe should have gone in the way it didn't go, but it still is fair enough. Mirai already has a national title and Rachael hasn't, Rachael landed more jumps than Mirai. Mirai was a lot better but I do think the 2a-3t downgrade was fair (not so much the other two), but even so, she got a 118+ for her 3 triple FS which obviously means she got deserved big GOEs on her spins, spirals, footwork, and the jumps she did land well. They are both going to the Olympics and worlds they are the two to deserve to go so that's really all that matters.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Yeah but shouldn't Mirai's PCS be much higher? And Rachael's TES be closer to Mirai's (even with the 3 downgrades?). The 3-3 wasn't even clean.

Spins
Flatt - Base Value: 9.10, cumulative GOE: 0.86, TES = 9.96
Nagasu - Base Value: 9.20, cumulative GOE: 2.43, TES = 11.63

Spiral Sequence
Flatt - Base Value: 3.40, cumultative GOE: 0.71, TES = 4.11
Nagasu - Base Value: 3.40, cumulative GOE: 1.57, TES = 5.17

Steps
Flatt - Base Value: 3.30, cumulative GOE: 0.79, TES = 4.09
Nagasu - Base Value: 3.30, cumulative GOE: 0.57, TES = 3.87

Jumps
Flatt - Base Value: 46.61, cumulative GOE: 4.28 , TES = 50.89
Nagasu - Base Value: 33.75, cumulative GOE: 2.72, TES = 36.47

The TES comes from the fact that the downgrades are huge drops. Flatt also backloaded her program a bit more and got those bonuses. It's worth mentioning that in terms of cumulative GOE, they were quite close. Flatt got 6.64 points from GOE; Nagasu got 7.29 (Wagner, comparatively got only 2.19). Flatt's entire advantage came from the fact that she fully rotated her jumps and kept her base level up. Flatt beat Nagasu by 12.04 points in the Free Skate. Her base value was 12.86 points higher. Flatt did get a -GOE on her triple-triple.

So basically, Nagasu got points for what she did well, was docked for where she lacked. Flatt's weaknesses aren't as considerable (in COP terms). So I think the judges got this right (the system, on the other hand.... )
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
You raise a point, but this year Flatt won and many folks are up in arms. There is no guarantee that the same wouldn't have happened had she won last year as well (granted, Czisny put down a less than inspiring freeskate, unlike Nagasu this year)...but there has been a good amount of negativity thrown Rachel's way the past couple years.

Anyway, continuing with my "after I had some time to think about it" thoughts about the FS

Czisny- I really thought she'd pull it together after that disastrous short. she had NOTHING to lose at this point. Unfortunately her inconsistencies continue.

Zhang- not much to say about her, except that I seriously think that if she does not make a major move soon, it's the end for her competitively.

Cohen- There are two MAJOR factors that worked against her here: a) the timing of her choice to return to competition and b) lack of preparation due to injuries, setbacks, etc. One month is just not quite enough to be at the performance level necessary to compete with the best. Still, I have to say I'm impressed with her going for it and not withdrawing, as it was clear that she probably should have (the FS was nothing like the usual her).
 
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