Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST

DesertRoad · Feb 19, 2010

I am baffled by Weir's low PCS in both portions of the competitions, especially the short. While there are some areas he is deficient in, like transitions, there are other areas where he is superior, and areas where he has vastly improved from the days where he had higher PCS (he's much better at connecting to the audience in his competitive skates now, for instance). His programs have a lot of variety in tempo, mood, levels and shapes, a diversity that doesn't seem to be rewarded at all, even though they're among some of the PCS requirements. I wonder if Krick's DVD poisoned his PCS that much.

Trewyn · Feb 19, 2010

Too tired to browse through the entire thread; it's been a really tough night, I think I slept only one hour and I have such a long day before me! Anyway; some quick remarks:
- Evan.. Who'd have thought. Sigh. Not my favourite skater by far. But oh well.
- Plushenko: as some of you may have read earlier, I held a party with all figure skating newbies and they all hated Plushenko (and I didn't even do that much to encourage them). They thought him arrogant, ugly (well, we're girls, staying up all night, forgive us for being superficial) and really overrated; his programs just don't have 'it'. He had some seriously wonky, insecure landings, so I guess it's justified that he didn't win. The moment he finished skating, I knew it'd be close.
- Takahashi: glad to see a Japanese man on the podium

I like all three of them.
- JOHNNY!!!! Was so so so robbed; he was robbed in the SP and majorly robbed now; I mean to be behind CHAN of all people??? Johnny just totally gave a SOHL; isn't that what the Olympics is about? To skate your heart out and reach the highest level you have in you? In my opinion Evan and Johnny (especially Johnny) did just that. I can't believe he was sixth! He should have been at least fourth! (sorry Lambiel)
- Lambiel: looked unsure and a bit slow; that really hurt his program. Is he going to be in Turin? That would thrill me to no end!!!
- Oda: what drama; first I thought he had seriously hurt himself; but the lace thing... Sigh. Bad timing. Brave of him to continue as if nothing happened. Too bad; if he had skated cleanly with a quad; who knows, he could have medalled...

ranjake · Feb 19, 2010

omg! elvis stojko's yahoo column! nice to know he's still a yutz.

Mrs. P · Feb 19, 2010

DesertRoad said:
I am baffled by Weir's low PCS in both portions of the competitions, especially the short. While there are some areas he is deficient in, like transitions, there are other areas where he is superior, and areas where he has vastly improved from the days where he had higher PCS (he's much better at connecting to the audience in his competitive skates now, for instance). His programs have a lot of variety in tempo, mood, levels and shapes, a diversity that doesn't seem to be rewarded at all, even though they're among some of the PCS requirements. I wonder if Krick's DVD poisoned his PCS that much.

From Johnny's twiter:

Congratulations to the medalists. Thank you to the world for showing me love and I hope I didn't let you down. I am proud.

Seems he's not analyzing it too much. I think his goal was to make the most out of his Olympic experience and do programs he can feel proud of. Goal achieved.

bethissoawesome · Feb 19, 2010

FlattFan said:
I can understand Dai's quad because had he landed it, he would have gotten 9.8 base + no negative 1 deduction, which would push him to the top.

Weir should be in 4th place, ahead of Lambiel. Both SP and LP clean and can't beat mistakes-ridden Lambiel?

I don't think Dai should have gone for the quad... I don't think he would have if Plushenko weren't there. It was too risky of a move, considering his injury only allowed him to start practicing jumps again just a little over 1/2 a year ago. That isn't enough training, and it really was a jump that was bound to fail. If you had just put him up against Evan in a non-quad program, he should have come out on top. considering his GOEs on all non-jump elements and most jump elements are generally higher, as well as PCS (not significantly there). The quad really did hurt him.... so did the downgrade on his 3F+3T combo, missing the third jump in his other combo, and the downgrade of his final spin, which usually would be level 4 to a level 2. I still find a lot of his GOE scores on jump elements very strange considering the leniency they gave to other top finishers (Lambiel, Plushenko's 3A, etc.)

Agreed about Weir... he did lack transitions, but he skated a clean program and his score defiitely did not reflect that.

colleen o'neill · Feb 19, 2010

Oh ,No! It's nothing personal... :laugh:

Elvis strikes me as a bitter, vicious little man and I believe it is personal with him. I think it's really personal . Oh, I don't know how much he actually dislikes one skater or another. I mean it's personal in the sense that when he grouses about the skating skills that are being rewarded equally with jumps nowadays, don't forget that those are the very skills he was criticized for lacking. I think he feels it as an attack on his record , his legacy, if you will.

So I suspect he's being disingenuous when he uses praise of Johnny to prove what a fair guy he is. He must know, as Johnny does, that on paper ,Johnny's programs aren't worth as much as some of the others , so he was taking a calculated risk. And normally, Elvis would be casting aspersions on him for not including a quad.

We still call it Figure Skating, it's not Ice Jumping..yet here's a guy who wants to denigrate the very skills that the sport is built on. Elvis could never have done what Evan did tonight.He did what he did very well, for quite a while .His jumps were thrilling ,but it was far from a complete package.

Layfan · Feb 19, 2010

Mrs. P said:
From Johnny's twiter:

Seems he's not analyzing it too much. I think his goal was to make the most out of his Olympic experience and do programs he can feel proud of. Goal achieved.

Ah, you beat me. I was JUST about to pass on Weir's twitter. But I'm sure Johnny is annoyed even though he is being a good sport. It probably helps that 1. he skated great and the audience booed his scores. 2. He probably wouldn't have medaled even if he hadn't been robbed b/c the top 3 outskated him. He should have been fourth. I think if the debate was whether Weir should have had silver or bronze he'd be more tempted to make a big deal about it.

Jaana · Feb 19, 2010

I´m not baffled by Weir´s fs scores, actually I think he should be happy to be on 6th place. I have understood that he failed to do a required spin and his fs choreography was more like a 6,0 choreography, so he has to suffer the consequences like any skater would have to under similar circumstances.

I´m very happy for both Evan and Frank!!! Evan was the very deserved winner. Plushenko was ridiculously overscored in PCS, in my opinion Takahashi should have won the silver medal.

FlattFan · Feb 19, 2010

bethissoawesome said:
I don't think Dai should have gone for the quad... I don't think he would have if Plushenko weren't there. It was too risky of a move, considering his injury only allowed him to start practicing jumps again just a little over 1/2 a year ago. That isn't enough training, and it really was a jump that was bound to fail. If you had just put him up against Evan in a non-quad program, he should have come out on top. considering his GOEs on all non-jump elements and most jump elements are generally higher, as well as PCS (not significantly there). The quad really did hurt him.... so did the downgrade on his 3F+3T combo, missing the third jump in his other combo, and the downgrade of his final spin, which usually would be level 4 to a level 2. I still find a lot of his GOE scores on jump elements very strange considering the leniency they gave to other top finishers (Lambiel, Plushenko's 3A, etc.)

Except that Dai would have scored lower than Evan had they gone for the same contents. (Case in point: see the SP) Daisuke SP is a lot better, but lower score.
Dai needs a quad for the judges to put him over a clean Evan. A clean Dai would place lower than a clean Evan, at least that's how the judges will put them.

Mrs. P · Feb 19, 2010

colleen o'neill said:
Oh ,No! It's nothing personal...

Elvis is a bitter, vicious little man and it is personal with him. I think it's really personal . Oh, I don't know how much he actually dislikes one skater or another. I mean it's personal in the sense that when he grouses about the skating skills that are being rewarded equally with jumps nowadays, don't forget that those are the very skills he was criticized for lacking. I think he feels it as an attack on his record , his legacy, if you will.

So I suspect he's being disingenuous when he uses praise of Johnny to prove what a fair guy he is. He must know, as Johnny does, that on paper ,Johnny's programs aren't worth as much as some of the others , so he was taking a calculated risk. And normally, Elvis would be casting aspersions on him for not including a quad.

We still call it Figure Skating, it's not Ice Jumping..yet here's a guy who wants to denigrate the very skills that the sport is built on. Elvis could never have done what Evan did tonight.He did what he did very well, for quite a while .His jumps were thrilling ,but it was far from a complete package.

I agree. After all he lost the gold in 1994 to a guy who didn't have a quad. And Illa had a quad in 1998 (I think?), but he clearly won for artistry, something Elvis was pretty weak at.

DesertRoad · Feb 19, 2010

Mrs. P said:
Seems he's not analyzing it too much. I think his goal was to make the most out of his Olympic experience and do programs he can feel proud of. Goal achieved.

And I'm very proud of him. But I am ashamed of the judges for once again failing to conduct the competition fairly.

Ice-Lady · Feb 19, 2010

colleen o'neill said:
Oh ,No! It's nothing personal...

Elvis strikes me as a bitter, vicious little man and I believe it is personal with him. I think it's really personal . Oh, I don't know how much he actually dislikes one skater or another. I mean it's personal in the sense that when he grouses about the skating skills that are being rewarded equally with jumps nowadays, don't forget that those are the very skills he was criticized for lacking. I think he feels it as an attack on his record , his legacy, if you will.

So I suspect he's being disingenuous when he uses praise of Johnny to prove what a fair guy he is. He must know, as Johnny does, that on paper ,Johnny's programs aren't worth as much as some of the others , so he was taking a calculated risk. And normally, Elvis would be casting aspersions on him for not including a quad.

We still call it Figure Skating, it's not Ice Jumping..yet here's a guy who wants to denigrate the very skills that the sport is built on. Elvis could never have done what Evan did tonight.He did what he did very well, for quite a while .His jumps were thrilling ,but it was far from a complete package.

It's not personal. He just knows, what does it mean to do quad. He knows how hard it to do anything after it. And Plushenko and Sotjko just saying the truth, htat Lysacek can not jump. Just realize that.

aftertherain · Feb 19, 2010

bethissoawesome said:
I don't think Dai should have gone for the quad... I don't think he would have if Plushenko weren't there. It was too risky of a move, considering his injury only allowed him to start practicing jumps again just a little over 1/2 a year ago. That isn't enough training, and it really was a jump that was bound to fail. If you had just put him up against Evan in a non-quad program, he should have come out on top. considering his GOEs on all non-jump elements and most jump elements are generally higher, as well as PCS (not significantly there). The quad really did hurt him.... so did the downgrade on his 3F+3T combo, missing the third jump in his other combo, and the downgrade of his final spin, which usually would be level 4 to a level 2. I still find a lot of his GOE scores on jump elements very strange considering the leniency they gave to other top finishers (Lambiel, Plushenko's 3A, etc.)

Agreed about Weir... he did lack transitions, but he skated a clean program and his score defiitely did not reflect that.

Maybe his mindset was, "Go big or go home."

*shrugs* I'm happy he's on the podium though.

aftertherain · Feb 19, 2010

Ice-Lady said:
It's not personal. He just knows, what does it mean to do quad. He knows how hard it to do anything after it. And Plushenko and Sotjko just saying the truth, htat Lysacek can not jump. Just realize that.

If you say that, can I say that Plushenko couldn't land cleanly tonight?

'cause you know, it's nothing personal. I just know.

I'm just kiddin.

Actually ... no, I'm not.

Okay, okay fine. I solemnly swear that I recognize that someone could jump today .. and that was Kozuka with the quad. Ahahahah. But really, though. Good for him! :biggrin:

Mrs. P · Feb 19, 2010

DesertRoad said:
And I'm very proud of him. But I am ashamed of the judges for once again failing to conduct the competition fairly.

Don't get me wrong, I totally think Johnny was robbed and that the judges clearly sent a message that they were not on his side. And I defintely didn't like this. He skated a much better program than he did in Torino....and his placement should be reflected as such.

It's like what Michelle Kwan said in her WSJ video, it's not the system, it's the people in it that will ruin things. And these judges clearly didn't get the memo.

Ice-Lady · Feb 19, 2010

Mrs. P said:
I agree. After all he lost the gold in 1994 to a guy who didn't have a quad. And Illa had a quad in 1998 (I think?), but he clearly won for artistry, something Elvis was pretty weak at.

I am Russian, but I think that Stojko was better in 1994. So I am objektive in this point if view. And Stojko compete against Plushenko and lost a lot af time. So he coueld hate him definitely more than Chan or Lysacek. They are nothing comparing to him. But he is a CHAMPION and a MAN enough to see the truth. Something, what Lysacek or Chan or other Miss Universe will never undestand.

Layfan · Feb 19, 2010

Dai lost nothing by trying the quad. He had a big enough lead to keep Lambiel, Weir, ect off the podium as long as he didn't self destruct. And if he hadn't tried the quad and fallen he still would have been third because Evan was nearly perfect and Plushenko had a more technically difficult program.

I just admire Dai for holding it together after the fall and skating so well afterwards. The Japanese have a good track record on that _ Ito in 92 and Mao in 08

ranjake · Feb 19, 2010

lysacek's DONE the quad. not as well as plushenko; of course not. plushenko is a jumping phenom; and i really give him credit for this ballsy comeback. he is a legend. elvis is a legend in his own mind. he was my bathroom break during his career. i don't miss him. just to me, and i'm no expert, evan and johnny had olympic gold medal worthy looking programs.

aftertherain · Feb 19, 2010

Ice-Lady said:
I am Russian, but I think that Stojko was better in 1994. So I am objektive in this point if view. And Stojko compete against Plushenko and lost a lot af time. So he coueld hate him definitely more than Chan or Lysacek. They are nothing comparing to him. But he is a CHAMPION and a MAN enough to see the truth. Something, what Lysacek or Chan or other Miss Universe will never undestand.

So ... everyone who doesn't agree with Stojko .. isn't a man?

Well, I'm not a man either way so ... whoopee?

Wait .. are you talking about Stojko or Plushenko?

Holdens · Feb 19, 2010

Congrats to the winner, who have never done a quad, because he just doesnt know how to do it. And Plushenko, who have made it brilliantly, is second. Thats canadian justice lol.
Plushenko should made a "women" program with doubles and triples, such as Lysacek, who falled on a training when tryied to made a quad.
So you can continue saying something like " Evan is God, I wanna children from him, he is the real champion". But its obvious that Plushenko got robbed.
American wins in Canada - its totally "fair".

Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST

DesertRoad

Trewyn

ranjake

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

bethissoawesome

colleen o'neill

Layfan

Jaana

FlattFan

Match Penalty

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

DesertRoad

Ice-Lady

aftertherain

aftertherain

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Ice-Lady

Layfan

ranjake

aftertherain

Holdens

Similar threads

Connect with us