Chan, Stojko & other Canadians discuss the men's event | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Chan, Stojko & other Canadians discuss the men's event

Tigger

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
I think the poster was just trying to imitate the tone of the NA coverage on Plush and apply the same attitude to an NA skater to make a point.

See this for comparison from the men's short program thread:

I suggest you go back and read this poster's previous postings in this thread when it comes to Patrick and in other threads regarding the Mens Event. This Troll, and considering he/she joined this site and board only a month ago and is doing nothing but posting venom filled posting after venom filled posting when it comes to Patrick, is exactly that. A Troll and nothing but.

It's one thing to dislike a skater for whatever reason, but to spend the time digging through YouTube to find something that happened nearly five years ago to prop up whatever delusional point this Troll thinks it's making? Then to say that due to that Patrick needs to be destroyed!?!

That's not making a point. That's not imitating anything the Media's doing. That's Troll behaviour and also beyond disgusting!! Also embrassing to this Forum.

Why is it behavour like this would get anyone kicked off of just about any other Message Board out there, but on Skating MB's, it's okay? I don't get that. :(
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Here are comments from "Quad King" Tim Goebel about Elvis, Evan and Plushy, from "Current Skate of Mind."

"I was interested in what Timothy Goebel, 2002 Olympic Bronze medalist, thought of the scathing article Elvis Stojko wrote about the Men’s results, called “The Night they Killed Figure Skating”. (To read it, click here.) Tim sent me this rebuttal:

“In my last season of competitive skating my coach, Audrey Weisiger, had a great quote: “Adapt, or die!”. Referring to the new judging system, she was noting the importance of being able to make changes to a program mid-season, in order to maximize points.

Evan, and many of his peers, have done just that. They have adapted. While I do agree with Elvis that the current system fails to appropriately encourage and reward risk, there are improvements the new regime has brought to the sport, as well. The most important, perhaps, is the importance placed on quality. Evan did not do a quad. Elvis is correct in saying that Evan’s jumps weren’t close to the techinical ability of Evgeny- they far exceeded his. Plushenko gave a gritty performance, and is a phenomenal competitor, but the jump quality was lacking. He barely hung on to his solo triple axel, and although Evan had a slight break in his axel combo, it was better. Lysacek did a beautiful triple lutz-triple toe, Plu barely squeaked by on his solo lutz, and did a scratchy triple lutz-double toe. Grade of execution counts for a lot, as it well should, and in every case Evan’s execution was stronger.

Another positive step the new system makes, is rewarding a well balanced program by giving bonus to difficult elements late in the program. Plushenko has one of the best triple axels in the business. He could easily do it in the bonus, but he elected not to. He front-loaded his program, and Evan spread his difficulty throughout. I appreciate how difficult that is- in the Salt Lake City Olympics, the second quad sal in my long was around the 3 minute mark. It requires a lot of training to make the big tricks happen late in a program, and Evan did so with ease.

I do not like to see the quad being such a rarity in the sport these days, and I do think that the system needs a major overhaul to encourage athletes to take risk. However, athletes must adapt to the system that they are competing under. With the help of Lori Nichol and Frank Carroll, Evan constructed a program that uses his strengths to maximize his points. He did what he needed to do to be successful within the constructs of the current system, and delivered two of the strongest programs he could possibly skate under a great deal of pressure. And that is the sign of a true champion.

In order to help the sport move forward, I would like to see a dialogue open between the ISU and former athletes who have performed multiple quads in competition. Elvis, myself, and many of our peers have invaluble competition experience for understanding the difficulty in executing these jumps. I agree that the system needs some major adjustments. Working together with the ISU, I am confident that we could come up with a point spread that would encourage and reward athletes to attempt more difficult elements, and do so without turning the sport into a jump contest.”
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
That's a bit disingenuous, considering he was only in two international competitions this season. And even then, he's actually landed two clean 3axels. And two more if you count Canadian nationals, and I don't know why you won't, except to make Chan look worse.

The reason why most people (including myself) don't include national competitions is that national tech teams and judges tend to overlook "minor" faults which would not be overlooked by ISU tech teams/judges.

Chan has always had a problem with the 3A, and he's never landed 3 clean 3As in any international event. In Vancouver, he landed just one clean 3A.

Jeff Buttle had the same problem. Eventually, he did finally land three 3As at Worlds 2008 and won the World Championship, at age 25.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Janetfan, Great comments from Goebel. One can criticize the system or even the outcome without disrespecting Evan, who did his job. Thanks for posting. I think you mean the website "Skate of Mind" (not "State").
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Janetfan, Great comments from Goebel. One can criticize the system or even the outcome without disrespecting Evan, who did his job. Thanks for posting. I think you mean the website "Skate of Mind" (not "State").

Thanks Spun, just fixed it ........:)

I enjoyed hearing Tim's thoughts.
Interesting that he thought Evan won - but also thinks the system needs some fixing particularly when it comes to the quad.
 
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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
When a news clip comes out talking about how Patrick Chan was found drinking underage (if he's in Canada then he isn't underage but w/e), smoking pot, or sleeping around then I'll believe he's tool, but until that happens (which it won't because he's a good kid), I'm going to continue thinking of Patrick as a great athlete and good role model for teenagers :agree:

I tend to think drinking and sleeping around are fine. Pot isn't so good if you're an athlete but it's not like cocaine or something.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Alcohol and pot might not do THAT much damage to an athlete, but I'm sure they would be at their best without it.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Alcohol and pot might not do THAT much damage to an athlete, but I'm sure they would be at their best without it.

Yeah exactly. Alcohol diminishes muscle tone and can make you gain weight pretty fast and I know the athletes have drug testing after they compete so idk if pot use could be detected in a urine sample.
 

Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
^^^^^^^ Yeesh, Alatariel, give it a rest, will you? I'm not sure what you think you know about maturity and class, given the way you carry on in here.

Nobody's perfect, and EVERY young person has things to learn. And even people who are full of class have lapses in judgement...

Why should I give it a rest? You can't change the facts that he said all those things just because you don't like it.

He is not mature, he has no class - at the moment. So yes, nobody is perfect, and yes every young person has things to learn. But if you say he has things to learn then you yourself are in fact saying he is not acting as he should.

So if he isn't acting as he should then there is something wrong. And enough with this young people nonsense! There are plenty of young people who do not act like this at that age. Fame hit him in the head, and hit him hard, not the first, not the last - somebody should give him a little shake, metaphorically, and get him to wise up.

Heck even Evan Lysacek put him down, hard, last year about his statements. Not that it did him any good, as it keeps on repeating and repeating and repeating.

One lapse in judgement happens. Two, sure. But this just goes on and on with Chan. But he's young right, so it's ok :rolleye:
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
If I may enter the fray *wink*, I just want to say that Patrick Chan doesn't offend me at all, what he does do is make me LOL! :laugh:

Seriously, how can you not laugh at some of the statements he has made. I mean come on it's great theater. *smile*
 

taikwan

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I disagree. He's not bitter, just stating his opinion based on the facts as he sees them. I don't totally disagree with him, either. The irony of showing Evan actually doing a quad on an interview after the fact actually validates Elvis, because Evan didn't bring it when it counted which would require risk and courage.
 

Marrymeyunakim

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
I disagree. He's not bitter, just stating his opinion based on the facts as he sees them. I don't totally disagree with him, either. The irony of showing Evan actually doing a quad on an interview after the fact actually validates Elvis, because Evan didn't bring it when it counted which would require risk and courage.

Good, a gold medal for Evan validates Elvis then. :D
 

oranges

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Columnists are supposed to be opinionated and drive attention/traffic to the newspaper/website. It may seem "bitter" because of his history, and there may be some truth to that, but I don't think that is what is driving him to take these latest stances. The more attention that Stojko gets for articles like this, the more he gets rewarded.
 

screech

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
I disagree. He's not bitter, just stating his opinion based on the facts as he sees them. I don't totally disagree with him, either. The irony of showing Evan actually doing a quad on an interview after the fact actually validates Elvis, because Evan didn't bring it when it counted which would require risk and courage.

Just because someone 'can' do something, doesn't mean they 'must', especially if it's hazardous to their health, as it would have been to Evan's foot. I mean, I'm sure I could jump off a 50 foot cliff into the ocean, but I'm not going to because maybe I'll land on a rock.

Personally I think it took courage for Evan NOT to do the quad, knowing the flack he'd probably receive for it. But he did what was best for him, regardless of the criticism, and has been nothing but completely gracious and solid in his acknowledgement of the fact that while he didn't do the quad, it was the best decision for him.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
The part where Elvis is correct, is that the Elements are not being understood for their difficulty. Male Senior skaters are quite capable of 8 Triple Jumps. However to execute those jumps with an additional air rotation is extremely difficult. Can you deny that? It means that even those skaters blessed with natural rotation have to work at quads. Elvis feels (and I do also) that they should be rewarded.

I kinda believe Elvis is saying that the rest of the judging should take place only for those who presented a clean Quad in their program. Similarly 3A for the Ladies.

This is not much different than barrel jumping where the referee would continue to add another barrel until a winner was reached. Whether you like it or not, that is SPORT.

Elvis is not negating the rest of the program but he is demanding a Quad for the Men; a 3A for the Ladies. It's kinda like one must do School Figures first and then Free Skate.

There is an Art to figure skating as their is an Art to Ski Jump. I would add don't be overwhelmed with 'artistry'. Young people must learn their craft before artistry comes into view. The only artistry I've seen thus far at the Olympics is in Ice Dance. Virtue and Moir are Artists.
 

allamar

Spectator
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
I don't think most of the criticism has been about Evan not having courage. I think it's been more that the current judging system doesn't encourage taking the risk of doing a quad or whatever else is high risk and advancing the sport. Elvis appears to grudgingly acknowledge that Evan won under the current rules. I believe he's hoping that the rules will change with respect to the results in these Olympics because, as he states, the guy who played it safe won where the guy who took a risk and succeeded didn't.
 
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