- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
A system to give skaters incentive to try more difficult jumps? (quads, combos, 3As)
I posted this somewhere else, but it doesn't quite fit in with the thread topic (should the quad be mandatory). This is more of an idea of how to make it worthwhile for the Men to try the Quad and possibly the 3A+3T/Lo, and for woman to try the solo 3A, 3A in combination, or 3F/Lz+3T/Lo combos)
I don't think the quad should be required, but I do think they need a way to encourage it more (for ladies I think this should and could also be done with the solo 3A, 3A in combination and/or any 3+3 combination in which the first jump is a flip or lutz).
This is my idea (for Men's skating, this would only be available for quad jumps (or possibly a 3+3 combo where the first jump is the 3A); Ladies for solo 3A, 3A in combination, and/or any 3+3 combo in which the first jump is flip or lutz): the skater has two options for these jumps, and the chosen option must be stated to the judges before the start of the program.
Option 1:The skater can attempt the jump under normal CoP rules and try to milk it for all it's worth (the obvious option for a skater like Plushenko who is secure in his quad)
Option 2: The skater can opt to do the jump with a bonus multiplier... but in doing so, they give up the opportunity to gain any +GOE scores... so even if the jump is landed and would receive +GOE, the skater can still only receive the base value of the jump as the maximum amount of points for picking this option. However if the jump is underrotated, they can still receive -GOEs, but the mutliplier goes into affect.
Example for Men...
Take the 4T for an example, base value 9.8. Right now under the current system, if a skater attempts the 4T and underrotates the jump... the base value not only drops to 4.0, but they receive -3 for GOEs, giving them only 1 point for their effort.... and if the skater falls, they don't receive any points at all.
I picked .6 for the bonus multiplier for the 4T, because it is the rounded inverse percentage of the value of 4.0/9.8.... value for 3T/4T
If the second option existed a skater could attempt the jump, but if it is marked as underrotated, the judges would work off of 4.0 * .6 = 6.4.... even with a -3 GOE, the score winds up being 3.4, just shy of the 3.5 value of a 2A.
This option would allow skater to do the quad and still be rewarded some points for the effort... just enough points so it is nearly like a jump element isn't entirely missed. This double option would allow skaters to either go for broke and get the points off of it, or still be able to somewhat "play it safe" with the quad but with the disadvantage of not being able to earn any +GOE score on it if they do somehow miraculously hit it.
For Ladies....
The same thing could be applied to the 3A in and 3+3 (only with Flip or Lutz as the first jump) combination for Ladies. In combination, the system would have to work where once again, the skater has the normal choice of going for the 3+3 and garnering +GOE's. Or for the second choice, they highest they can achieve if they hit it would be the base value of the combination... if a jump is underrotated, the multiplier would go into affect for the underrotated jump.
Examples: 3A (using the same system, .6 would be the multiplier again here). If the 3A is underrotated, judges start with the value of 3.5*.6 = 5.6 (a fair amount just over the value of a 3F) and would deduct from there.
Example for a 3+3 combo: The multiplier would only go into affect for the base value of the underrotated jump, not for the base value of the entire combination (although the base value of the entire combination would be the maximum score the skater could receive if done perfectly since the skater has opted to forfeit any postive GOEs).
Using Yu-Na's 2009 Skate America 3Lz+3T< as an example... fully rotated, the base value would be 10.0, with the current system the base value drops to 7.3 (in this case the negative GOEs brought the total down to 5.3). Here the rounded multiplier would be .7 and only apply to the 3T (the underrotated jump) .... so her base value would change to 6.0+1.3*1.7=8.21, and with the same GOE's, bring her total down to 6.21... a total still higher than any solo triple other than the 3A... much better in comparison to her previous score which wound up being lower than the base value of a 3F.
LOL I know this has been a really long suggestion... but it seems like a feasible way to encourage skaters to learn more difficult moves and not be forced to opt out of the big tricks. They can choose the second option while they are still not totally secure in their jumps, and then as they gain experience with it in international competition under a scoring system that keeps it in check, they can switch to doing it under the normal CoP rules to gain the extra GOEs.
Any input?
I posted this somewhere else, but it doesn't quite fit in with the thread topic (should the quad be mandatory). This is more of an idea of how to make it worthwhile for the Men to try the Quad and possibly the 3A+3T/Lo, and for woman to try the solo 3A, 3A in combination, or 3F/Lz+3T/Lo combos)
I don't think the quad should be required, but I do think they need a way to encourage it more (for ladies I think this should and could also be done with the solo 3A, 3A in combination and/or any 3+3 combination in which the first jump is a flip or lutz).
This is my idea (for Men's skating, this would only be available for quad jumps (or possibly a 3+3 combo where the first jump is the 3A); Ladies for solo 3A, 3A in combination, and/or any 3+3 combo in which the first jump is flip or lutz): the skater has two options for these jumps, and the chosen option must be stated to the judges before the start of the program.
Option 1:The skater can attempt the jump under normal CoP rules and try to milk it for all it's worth (the obvious option for a skater like Plushenko who is secure in his quad)
Option 2: The skater can opt to do the jump with a bonus multiplier... but in doing so, they give up the opportunity to gain any +GOE scores... so even if the jump is landed and would receive +GOE, the skater can still only receive the base value of the jump as the maximum amount of points for picking this option. However if the jump is underrotated, they can still receive -GOEs, but the mutliplier goes into affect.
Example for Men...
Take the 4T for an example, base value 9.8. Right now under the current system, if a skater attempts the 4T and underrotates the jump... the base value not only drops to 4.0, but they receive -3 for GOEs, giving them only 1 point for their effort.... and if the skater falls, they don't receive any points at all.
I picked .6 for the bonus multiplier for the 4T, because it is the rounded inverse percentage of the value of 4.0/9.8.... value for 3T/4T
If the second option existed a skater could attempt the jump, but if it is marked as underrotated, the judges would work off of 4.0 * .6 = 6.4.... even with a -3 GOE, the score winds up being 3.4, just shy of the 3.5 value of a 2A.
This option would allow skater to do the quad and still be rewarded some points for the effort... just enough points so it is nearly like a jump element isn't entirely missed. This double option would allow skaters to either go for broke and get the points off of it, or still be able to somewhat "play it safe" with the quad but with the disadvantage of not being able to earn any +GOE score on it if they do somehow miraculously hit it.
For Ladies....
The same thing could be applied to the 3A in and 3+3 (only with Flip or Lutz as the first jump) combination for Ladies. In combination, the system would have to work where once again, the skater has the normal choice of going for the 3+3 and garnering +GOE's. Or for the second choice, they highest they can achieve if they hit it would be the base value of the combination... if a jump is underrotated, the multiplier would go into affect for the underrotated jump.
Examples: 3A (using the same system, .6 would be the multiplier again here). If the 3A is underrotated, judges start with the value of 3.5*.6 = 5.6 (a fair amount just over the value of a 3F) and would deduct from there.
Example for a 3+3 combo: The multiplier would only go into affect for the base value of the underrotated jump, not for the base value of the entire combination (although the base value of the entire combination would be the maximum score the skater could receive if done perfectly since the skater has opted to forfeit any postive GOEs).
Using Yu-Na's 2009 Skate America 3Lz+3T< as an example... fully rotated, the base value would be 10.0, with the current system the base value drops to 7.3 (in this case the negative GOEs brought the total down to 5.3). Here the rounded multiplier would be .7 and only apply to the 3T (the underrotated jump) .... so her base value would change to 6.0+1.3*1.7=8.21, and with the same GOE's, bring her total down to 6.21... a total still higher than any solo triple other than the 3A... much better in comparison to her previous score which wound up being lower than the base value of a 3F.
LOL I know this has been a really long suggestion... but it seems like a feasible way to encourage skaters to learn more difficult moves and not be forced to opt out of the big tricks. They can choose the second option while they are still not totally secure in their jumps, and then as they gain experience with it in international competition under a scoring system that keeps it in check, they can switch to doing it under the normal CoP rules to gain the extra GOEs.
Any input?
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