Kavaguti and Smirnov punishment for failure in Vancouver

aftertherain · Mar 4, 2010

On a related note:

Russian Olympic Committee head resigns after flop
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_sp_ol/oly_russia_leader_resigns

Leonid Tyagachev, a former sports minister, took over as head of the Russian Olympic Committee in 2001. In the wake of the Vancouver Games, President Dmitry Medvedev has warned that sports officials would be fired if they failed to resign voluntarily.

janetfan · Mar 4, 2010

Nadia01 said:
I can't believe they're blaming the skaters. They were never favored to win OGM!

I hadn't seen much of this Team before Vancouver and there SP really impressed me.
But the LP - even aside from their mistakes was the least impressive I think I ever saw from a Moskvina team.

If there has to be blame it seems fair that it should be spread around a little bit. Hope they do better at Worlds........

Joesitz (RIP) · Mar 4, 2010

colleen o'neill said:
:think:Well Kavaguti ,herself, always wanted to look exactly like Berezhnaya , even as a young'un skating for Japan , so we can't blame Moskvina entirely for that. It is a little creepy that she entered into the plan so wholeheartedly , though. At the end of the day , even the best copy is only an imitation , so I never like to see a skater being so closely modeled after someone else.

It makes me worry for skaters like Leonova and Borodulin, as well. Can they ever be the best that they can be, if they're trying to be just like someone else ? What natural ability, expression , etc. gets smothered in the process ?

There is something to having a roll model to follow and K/S with Moskvina were ok for B/S but it should have been the basis for a growing style. K/S should have branched out on their own style, they didn't; so what we got was a less than perfect B/S. To make matters worse, they used the S/P music in Moskvina's kind of vengeful way.

I do find many Russian skaters having the same style of skating. Leonova is definitely a same style Irina and Borodulin is like every other young man in their men's division. What they need is a gimmick to separate them from the others and present a new look to the international community.

Bennett · Mar 4, 2010

Tinymavy15 said:
They did not skate up to standards but they knew it. They were visibly disappointed with their skate, I don't see why Tamara has to rub it in. I think the best thing to do in a situation like this is just forget about it and try to come back strong at worlds. They were never ever exactly Gold Medal favorites, so 4th place in not THAT disgraceful. I think the main problem was mis communication about the quad, they did not know if they were doing it or not until the warm up, when he obvioulsy got the memo they were doing it and she did not. After that it threw the whole program off.

I heard that Yuko knew it but could not switch her mind. Kind of confused, it seems.

iluvtodd · Mar 4, 2010

I've always admired Tamara, but if this is true, did she have to rub it in? They must feel bad enough about it. I like this team, but their performances just weren't up to the level of the top three pairs. I don't consider 4th place a disgrace. At any rate, I wish them well at Worlds.

christinaskater · Mar 4, 2010

A lot of people shifted for skating to tennis

The pay is higher and the publicity is greater

Bennett · Mar 4, 2010

Interviews with both Tamara and Yuko.

In Russian and Japanese:
http://blog.livedoor.jp/yukosasha/

Do you think that they'll be a World Champ some time?

T: I hope so and believe/trust them.

March 1

(Asked about the difference in opinion about the quad at FS and their subsequent relationship)
Y: We are fine. Tamara is my mom and there are times when we want to fight (laugh).

Feb 25

DesertRoad · Mar 4, 2010

We praise and reward athletes when they do well, so it's only fair we shame and punish them when they don't. It's not a coincidence that when a team loses, we say they got beaten, because back in the day, that's exactly what would happen to such laggards. Regular beatings would do wonders to cure skaters of all kinds of bad habits, from bad posture to incorrect jump entries. Of course, skaters are already used to pain, so one must keep that in mind and use proportionally greater force.

SugarCranberry · Mar 4, 2010

I read the article from the link, and it doesn’t sound exactly as the first poster said.
Yuko and Sasha were supposed to compete at the Cup of Russia Final in Tver, but Moskvina did not let them go to Tver. She (Tamara Moskvina) is pushing them to train for the World Championships because they lost a lot of training time staying at the Olympics after the competitions. The article says nothing about Tamara blaming them.
As for “reducing their salary” – so far it’s only Sasha’s mother’s predictions, not what really has happened

lavender · Mar 4, 2010

Just because you applaud someone's success it doesn't mean that if they don't live up to their own delusional expectations or even real expectations they should be shamed and punish in a sport. That doesn't even sound right.

janetfan · Mar 4, 2010

DesertRoad said:
We praise and reward athletes when they do well, so it's only fair we shame and punish them when they don't. It's not a coincidence that when a team loses, we say they got beaten, because back in the day, that's exactly what would happen to such laggards. Regular beatings would do wonders to cure skaters of all kinds of bad habits, from bad posture to incorrect jump entries. Of course, skaters are already used to pain, so one must keep that in mind and use proportionally greater force.

Not sure if I can agree with your theory about this. Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.

miki88 · Mar 4, 2010

DesertRoad said:
We praise and reward athletes when they do well, so it's only fair we shame and punish them when they don't. It's not a coincidence that when a team loses, we say they got beaten, because back in the day, that's exactly what would happen to such laggards. Regular beatings would do wonders to cure skaters of all kinds of bad habits, from bad posture to incorrect jump entries. Of course, skaters are already used to pain, so one must keep that in mind and use proportionally greater force.

You have a good point. When someone is doing well, fans and the media are all over them. However, when they are not doing so well, it seems a lot of people and the media are quick to judge and criticize them. Maybe for some coaches, it's the same. But I guess that's life right? When you're doing well, everyone loves you. But when you're not, those who praise you most are first to run away.

jennylovskt · Mar 4, 2010

I believe that Tamara's "punishment" to her skaters are measured to the point to make them aware and make them better. It won't break them. Tamara is such a smart, strict, and loving person. I have high respect for her. It's just a media's hype for a gushing story. The soviet methods have worked for decades. It'll work this time too. Their country just currently doesn't have the talents to be on the top. I agree with the people who said that no matter how hard they try, they couldn't be on the top at this Olympics. The best they could hope for was a bronze finish if they have had a skate of their life at this point.

janetfan said:
Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.

If Miki felt that it was a punishment, she would have left Morozov long time ago. I thought Miki's costume was stunningly beautiful. Of course Johnny Weir couldn't wear it. I am puzzled at your "sacrifices" comment. What did she sacrifice? Maybe you have problem with every Russian coach?

janetfan · Mar 4, 2010

jennylovskt said:
I believe that Tamara's "punishment" to her skaters are measured to the point to make them aware and make them better. It won't break them.

Glad to hear these talented young skaters will not be broken but only punished in a nice way :rolleye:

lavender · Mar 4, 2010

Originally Posted by janetfan
Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.

lol...it's too bad that Morozov lost all of his fresh ideas for choreography for single skaters. I don't like his programs anymore. I still like Miki though.

watchvancouver · Mar 4, 2010

Thos inflated scores at Euro must have made Tamara believe she could still hypnotize judges. This pair finished fifth at GPF and how the earth could they suddently become gold medal contenders?

Time to them to retire.

Bennett · Mar 4, 2010

janetfan said:
Not sure if I can agree with your theory about this. Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.

She won the Worlds 2007 and got Bronze at Worlds 2009 under Morosov. She seems grateful to his support. Her LP is not Morosov's work.
Although she happened fail to medal, it would have been a close comp if it were not for the 3-3 attempt at SP.

bekalc · Mar 4, 2010

I think though that Tamara has a right to be angry with her team for not listening to her about the quad, and I also think that while they weren't gold medal favorites, if they had skated well they actually could have won gold or at least a medal, considering how poorly everyone else skated.

It in the end depends on how they are treated, it sounds like from the one interview, things really aren't that bad.

This being said is there is an article which says the Russians have made an offer for Tatiana Volohozhar to skate for Russia. And talk is that the partner may end up being Trankov.

Dibs · Mar 5, 2010

This being said is there is an article which says the Russians have made an offer for Tatiana Volohozhar to skate for Russia. And talk is that the partner may end up being Trankov.[/QUOTE]

Really? Are they actively planning to get rid of their respective partners? I can't imagine that Maria is ready to retire, and isn't she considered the stronger of the two in that particular pair?

blue_idealist · Mar 5, 2010

Dibs said:
Really? Are they actively planning to get rid of their respective partners? I can't imagine that Maria is ready to retire, and isn't she considered the stronger of the two in that particular pair?

Someone else said on here in another thread that Stanislav Morozov already said he WANTED to retire. Idk about Maria though.

Kavaguti and Smirnov punishment for failure in Vancouver

aftertherain

janetfan

Match Penalty

Joesitz (RIP)

Bennett

iluvtodd

christinaskater

Bennett

DesertRoad

SugarCranberry

lavender

janetfan

Match Penalty

miki88

jennylovskt

janetfan

Match Penalty

lavender

watchvancouver

Match Penalty

Bennett

bekalc

Dibs

blue_idealist

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