2010 Grand Prix Assignments

I am just wondering if people know the protocol for how many entries each country gets for spots on the Senior Grand Prix circuit coming up this fall?

Where Agnes Zawadzki medaled at Jr. Worlds, she has earned at least one senior GP event for next season, but she hasn't competed on the JGP yet so could she compete in both?

Will Christina Gao and Amanda Dobbs get senior GP assignments where they beat Liang, Gilles, Hughes, Czisny, and Zhang at nationals? Does it depend on if Alissa and Emily are skating next year, if Kimmie decides to compete again, etc. Also Angela Maxwell didn't compete at nationals but has already been on the JGP twice and made the final both times, will she get senior GP events next season if she is not still injured? I'm unaware of the protocol the USFSA uses to determine who gets to go because I know this season Bebe, Alexe, and Becky Bereswill all had events even though they didn't have particularly great results last season.

Polina Agafonova also medaled at JW but where she is so young and didn't go to the JGPF this year I don't know if Russia will send her to the JGP or SGP next year. Polina Shelepen and Anna Ovcharova just missed medaling at JW but with so many younger girls finally eligible for JGP next year I wonder if they will compete on the SGP as they are both old enough. Polina S has all her JGP medals to back her up and Anna was 2nd at Junior nationals and the 3rd finisher at senior nationals that will be eligible for the SGP next year (she finished 5th, but the 3rd and 4th place finishers will go to JGP next year as they were too young for it this season and will be too young for SGP next season). Anyone know how many ladies Russia can send to the SGP next year, or does it depend on Worlds? I assume Alena and Ksenia will go, but after those two, these three girls seem to be the next in line to go.

So yeah, essentially I am confused. If anyone knows more about GP assignments and such, please share your knowledge.

i think they go by isu world rankings in part , scores-and if the skaters polina and agnes kanako will want to skate in junior gp or senior and also depends on federation where they jput them in junior or senior gp events.

fairly4 said:

i think they go by isu world rankings in part , scores-and if the skaters polina and agnes kanako will want to skate in junior gp or senior and also depends on federation where they jput them in junior or senior gp events.

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So basically the federations can do whatever they want? Or where Kanako, Agnes, Polina, Polina, and Anna are all age eligible to compete on either the SGP or JGP they and their countries can pretty much chose?

It varies from year to year, but this is the gist of it.

Skaters can be seeded or invited.

Skaters 1-6 from the World championships are seeded. Skaters ranked 1-3 will not meet before the final; same for skaters ranked 4-6. They are gauranteed two events. If they withdraw from an event, they will not be given another one.

Skaters who finished 7-12 at Worlds are given 2 assignments. If they withdraw, then the skaters who have a higher SB score, but finished below are considered. If they withdraw or can't make it, the next skaters are given priority in order of placement from Worlds.

Skaters who are in the top 24 of SB scores and don't fit into any of the above categories and aren't ranked 1-24 in the ISU standings are guaranteed 1 assignment.

Skaters who medal at JW or JGPF are given 1 assignment. If you medal at both, then you are still only assured of 1 spot.

Skaters can't compete in the JGP AND GP at the same time, unless they are in pairs. All skaters must have turned 14 by the previous July 1st. A maximum of 3 skaters per country per event and host countries can select 3 entries per category.

So national results have nothing to do with it, except for host country spots.

If there are still extra spots, then skaters with a top 75 SB scores can get invited.

silverlake22 said:

Where Agnes Zawadzki medaled at Jr. Worlds, she has earned at least one senior GP event for next season, but she hasn't competed on the JGP yet so could she compete in both?

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No. Skaters can't compete in the JGP and the SGP in the same year.

Will Christina Gao and Amanda Dobbs get senior GP assignments where they beat Liang, Gilles, Hughes, Czisny, and Zhang at nationals? Does it depend on if Alissa and Emily are skating next year, if Kimmie decides to compete again, etc. Also Angela Maxwell didn't compete at nationals but has already been on the JGP twice and made the final both times, will she get senior GP events next season if she is not still injured?

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National results have nothing to do with GP spots unless it is with host spots. ISU ranking and SB scores are what matters. If Gao and Dobbs have scores in the top or ranking in the top 24, they can get an invitation immediately. Angela has a top 75 score, so she can get an invitation, but it's not guaranteed.

I'm unaware of the protocol the USFSA uses to determine who gets to go because I know this season Bebe, Alexe, and Becky Bereswill all had events even though they didn't have particularly great results last season.

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Unsure about Bebe and Alexe, but they probably had top 75 scores. Alexe's second invite was a host slot. Becky was guaranteed one after winning the JGPF.

Anyone know how many ladies Russia can send to the SGP next year, or does it depend on Worlds? I assume Alena and Ksenia will go, but after those two, these three girls seem to be the next in line to go.

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Depends if they have other ladies who fill the categories. At this point, Shelepen and Agafonova are guaranteed 1 assignment; Ovcharova, Gerboldt and Gozeva can be selected for 1.

oleada said:

It varies from year to year, but this is the gist of it.

Skaters can be seeded or invited.

Skaters 1-6 from the World championships are seeded. Skaters ranked 1-3 will not meet before the final; same for skaters ranked 4-6. They are gauranteed two events. If they withdraw from an event, they will not be given another one.

Skaters who finished 7-12 at Worlds are given 2 assignments. If they withdraw, then the skaters who have a higher SB score, but finished below are considered. If they withdraw or can't make it, the next skaters are given priority in order of placement from Worlds.

Skaters who are in the top 24 of SB scores and don't fit into any of the above categories and aren't ranked 1-24 in the ISU standings are guaranteed 1 assignment.

Skaters who medal at JW or JGPF are given 1 assignment. If you medal at both, then you are still only assured of 1 spot.

Skaters can't compete in the JGP AND GP at the same time, unless they are in pairs. All skaters must have turned 14 by the previous July 1st. A maximum of 3 skaters per country per event and host countries can select 3 entries per category.

So national results have nothing to do with it, except for host country spots.

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Thanks so much! So Agnes and Christina have earned 1 event on the SGP next season and will likely be given two because only two US ladies are going to worlds. Polina Shelepen and Polina Agafonova have also earned 1 event each on the SGP next season and will also likely be given two because only two Russian ladies are going to worlds. Kanako has also earned 1 event on the SGP but I don't know if she will get another where it looks like Mao, Miki, Akiko, and Fumie are all continuing. Angela, Kiri, Anna, and Amanda have not earned spots on the SGP through competitions but may get assignments on the SGP or JGP depending on what their countries decide.

That right?

oleada said:

Depends if they have other ladies who fill the categories. At this point, Shelepen and Agafonova are guaranteed 1 assignment; Ovcharova, Gerboldt and Gozeva can be selected for 1.

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Could Russia decide not to send Gerboldt or Gozeva at all or have Anna compete on the JGP again? Or I mean is there any way a skater can get two GP assignments without medaling at the JGPF, Jr. Worlds, or finishing between 1st and 12th at Worlds?

Also, Mirai medaled at Jr Worlds in 2007 and then went on to compete on the JGP, but she did turn 14 before July 1st so shouldn't she have gotten a senior GP assignment?

silverlake22 said:

Thanks so much! So Agnes and Christina have earned 1 event on the SGP next season and will likely be given two because only two US ladies are going to worlds. Polina Shelepen and Polina Agafonova have also earned 1 event each on the SGP next season and will also likely be given two because only two Russian ladies are going to worlds. Kanako has also earned 1 event on the SGP but I don't know if she will get another where it looks like Mao, Miki, Akiko, and Fumie are all continuing. Angela, Kiri, Anna, and Amanda have not earned spots on the SGP through competitions but may get assignments on the SGP or JGP depending on what their countries decide.

That right?

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At this point, though, Amanda Dobbs is guaranteed 1 assignment from having a top 24 best score.

Angnes and Christina might be given two. The number of who goes to Worlds doesn't have anything to do with it, really. But there are other US ladies who are also eligible for spots off the bat: Ashley Wagner (I'm sure she'll get two), Caroline Zhang and Alissa Csizny. So it just depends, but they are only guaranteed one. You're right about Kiri, Angela, Amanda and Anna, though.

I'd be shocked if Kanako doesn't get 2. Even with Miki, Akiko, Mao & Fumie, that's only 8 spots out of a maximum 12. With a world standing of 14 and a SB score ranked 13, it's unlikely she'll only get one. I can't think of a Junior ladies champion who's only gotten one.

Some years all skaters who are guaranteed 1 are given 2, but that doesn't always happen.

silverlake22 said:

Could Russia decide not to send Gerboldt or Gozeva at all or have Anna compete on the JGP again? Or I mean is there any way a skater can get two GP assignments without medaling at the JGPF, Jr. Worlds, or finishing between 1st and 12th at Worlds?

Also, Mirai medaled at Jr Worlds in 2007 and then went on to compete on the JGP, but she did turn 14 before July 1st so shouldn't she have gotten a senior GP assignment?

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Yeah, I think federations can basically block a skater from getting selected. I think the Russian fed did that to Sokolova once. And definitely, you can get two spots without finishing top 12 or medaling at the JGPF or JW. Both Hecken and Helgesson got 2 JGP slots and they didn't even do as well as Anna did this season - so it's definitely possible and has happened before.

Mirai chose to be on the JGP (which was a good move, in my opinion), but yes she would have been eligible for the SGP.

I think in Agnes case she should go to Seniors since she's age eligible. But I'd suggest her doing some Senior Bs before the GP season starts.

oleada said:

Yeah, I think federations can basically block a skater from getting selected. I think the Russian fed did that to Sokolova once. And definitely, you can get two spots without finishing top 12 or medaling at the JGPF or JW. Both Hecken and Helgesson got 2 JGP slots and they didn't even do as well as Anna did this season - so it's definitely possible and has happened before.

Mirai chose to be on the JGP (which was a good move, in my opinion), but yes she would have been eligible for the SGP.

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I just looked on the season's best scores list - as of right now Bereswill (81) and Gerboldt (84) do not have a season's best score in the top 75 so the only way they can get an assignment is if their country choses them to compete at their home country GP event, right? Liang (55), Kawamura (56), Gozeva (49), Maxwell (45), Ovcharova (35), Baga (38), Gilles (29) all have seasons best scores in the top 75 so they meet the criteria for being assigned to one or two GP events and those don't have to be in their home country, though none are guarunteed a GP assignment, right?

oleada said:

At this point, though, Amanda Dobbs is guaranteed 1 assignment from having a top 24 best score.

Angnes and Christina might be given two. The number of who goes to Worlds doesn't have anything to do with it, really. But there are other US ladies who are also eligible for spots off the bat: Ashley Wagner (I'm sure she'll get two), Caroline Zhang and Alissa Csizny. So it just depends, but they are only guaranteed one. You're right about Kiri, Angela, Amanda and Anna, though.

I'd be shocked if Kanako doesn't get 2. Even with Miki, Akiko, Mao & Fumie, that's only 8 spots out of a maximum 12. With a world standing of 14 and a SB score ranked 13, it's unlikely she'll only get one. I can't think of a Junior ladies champion who's only gotten one.

Some years all skaters who are guaranteed 1 are given 2, but that doesn't always happen.

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Does the US get to send a maximum of 12 as well or does it depend on worlds? If they can send 12, I tend to think Gao, Zawadzki, and Dobbs will all get two assignments, especially where Evan, Johnny, and Alissa are all likely retiring.

oleada said:

Yeah, I think federations can basically block a skater from getting selected. I think the Russian fed did that to Sokolova once.

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Federations first nominate the skaters they consider eligible for invitations to the GP. If a federation doesn't include the name of a skater in the list submitted to the ISU, then the skater can't get any GP invitations. That's what the RFSF did to Sokolova.

Mirai chose to be on the JGP (which was a good move, in my opinion), but yes she would have been eligible for the SGP.

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Part of the reason for that was that Mirai's first and only international competition was 2007 Junior Worlds (where she won silver, just like Agnes). She would have been old enough (14) for the GP, but she wouldn't have been eligible for Worlds. She probably felt that going from one junior competition to the Senior GP was too big a step.

Agnes is in a similar position. Although she is 15 and eligible for both GP and Worlds, JW 2010 was her first international competition. It's a big step from one junior competition to the GP. It's her decision to make.

silverlake22 said:

Does the US get to send a maximum of 12 as well or does it depend on worlds? If they can send 12, I tend to think Gao, Zawadzki, and Dobbs will all get two assignments, especially where Evan, Johnny, and Alissa are all likely retiring.

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It depends on how many ladies earn assignments via the JGPF or JW, Worlds or the standings or season best scores.

I'm not saying Japan will get the full 12 spots. I'm saying that having four skaters who will likely get 2 assignments doesn't mean Murakami is any less unlikely to get 2 as well.

oleada said:

It depends on how many ladies earn assignments via the JGPF or JW, Worlds or the standings or season best scores.

I'm not saying Japan will get the full 12 spots. I'm saying that having four skaters who will likely get 2 assignments doesn't mean Murakami is any less unlikely to get 2 as well.

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Well now that JW results are in and the US was one of the top scoring nations, doesn't that men we get 14 spots for the JGP? And so we have to wait until the senior worlds results are in to know about the SGP. Last year though the ladies didn't do so well at worlds but the USFSA still sent 6 ladies (Flatt, Nagasu, Zhang, Czisny, Wagner, Gilles) to two SGP events and 3 ladies (Bereswill, Liang, Hughes) to one SGP event. Are men's and ladie's results dealt with differently or is the number of spots we get dependent on the results of both genders at worlds combined?

Just remember that a GP event can include a maximum of three skaters from the same country. That automatically means the maximum possible slots per discipline is 18 for a host country (FRA, RUS, CHN, JPN, USA, CAN) and 15 for non-host countries.

Here's where the slots went this season:

MEN
BEL: 2
CAN: 10
CHN: 5
CZE: 4
ESP: 1
FIN: 1
FRA: 8
GER: 1
ITA: 2
JPN: 8
KAZ: 2
RUS: 7
SWE: 3
USA: 16

LADIES
CAN: 7
CHN: 4
EST: 1
FIN: 5
FRA: 1
GBR: 2
GER: 4
HUN: 2
ITA: 2
JPN: 11
KOR: 2
POL: 1
RUS: 5
SWE: 2
TUR: 1
USA: 15
UZB: 1

PAIRS
CAN: 9
CHN: 8
EST: 1
FRA: 3
GBR: 1
ITA: 1
JPN: 1
RUS: 9
UKR: 2
USA: 11

DANCE
CAN: 8
CHN: 4
CZE: 2
EST: 1
FRA: 5
GBR: 2
GER: 2
ISR: 2
ITA: 3
JPN: 1
RUS: 10
USA: 13

^^ thanks! I had no idea it was so complicated!

So for the US it could potentially look like this for ladies:

Flatt - 2
Nagasu - 2
Zhang - 2
Wagner - 2
Dobbs - 2
Zawadzki - 2
Gao - 2
Maxwell - 2
Gilles - 1
Liang - 1
---------------- total = 18 (assuming Czisny retires which I think she is b/c she doesn't have a coach)

And in Russia:

Leonova - 2
Makarova - 2
Shelepen - 2
Agafonova - 2
Ovcharova - 2
Gozeva - 2
Gerbolt - 1
--------- total = 13, likely they won't use maximum # of slots

And Japan:
Asada - 2
Ando - 2
Suzuki - 2
Suguri - 2
Murakami - 2
Imai - 2
----total = 12, likely they won't use maximum # of slots

It's a little early about this but I am sure when August/September rolls around we will wonder:

1. Who are chosen for two and those who are chosen for one and those not chosen at all.

2. Once the top 1st place finishers at Worlds 2010 are known, their Federations get to choose in what GP they want them.

3. Then there is a procedure for selecting the next eligible GP skaters:
a) The Six Super Feds draw for first selection ensuring that the top 6 eligibles are each placed in 2 GPs each one limited to 2 top 6.
b) At this point I have no idea if the winner of the drawer for first pick continues till he has filled up his Fed's GP...OR...
if each Super Fed then takes their turn to pic.
[the reason I question this because France, who apparently drew 1st draw (we don't know how the drawing turned out)turned up with box office skaters. as if France selected all their skaters at once]
(c)After all the selections have been placed we will find TBAs. If the TBAs are not filled in reasonable time they become gaps for which now there is a procedure in filling according to ISU listings. process
(d) Once the order of GP event is determined (how?) the Games begin.

What skaters are elligible for these events is a matter of each of the Super Federation. Their word is final, but I presume there is a substituion process available.

There may be changes to this which we will know after the big meeting in May.

chuckm said:

Federations first nominate the skaters they consider eligible for invitations to the GP. If a federation doesn't include the name of a skater in the list submitted to the ISU, then the skater can't get any GP invitations. That's what the RFSF did to Sokolova.
.

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The major thing about senior Senior GP (opposite to Junior GP and ISU Championships) is that the countries do not get slots. The places for the next season belong to specific skaters (based on their results at the Worlds 1-12, World Standings1-24, Season Best results 1-24).

The countries do not submit the names for SGP. On the contrary-ISU requests information from the countries if their skaters who are guaranteed events (1 or 2) will compete in Senior Gp or they stay Juniors, of if they retired, split, etc...

The selection rules are modified every year. I heard that all organizers are not happy that too many Juniors get guaranteed spots based of various criteria. The idea was that only gold medalists of Junior Worlds and Junior GP Final will get guaranteed events uin Senior. i do not know if this will change or not but this is logic IMO, because even Senior GP Final is not considered for getting assignments for the next year.

After that the list is cleaned and the skaters are place to events at the meeting of 6 Federations.

The situation with Sokolova-she had 1 event guarantedd but decided to stop skating.

BTW, Gerbold is trying pairs now.

SUN said:

The major thing about senior Senior GP (opposite to Junior GP and ISU Championships) is that the countries do not get slots. The places for the next season belong to specific skaters (based on their results at the Worlds 1-12, World Standings1-24, Season Best results 1-24).

The countries do not submit the names for SGP. On the contrary-ISU requests information from the countries if their skaters who are guaranteed events (1 or 2) will compete in Senior Gp or they stay Juniors, of if they retired, split, etc...

The selection rules are modified every year. I heard that all organizers are not happy that too many Juniors get guaranteed spots based of various criteria. The idea was that only gold medalists of Junior Worlds and Junior GP Final will get guaranteed events uin Senior. i do not know if this will change or not but this is logic IMO, because even Senior GP Final is not considered for getting assignments for the next year.

After that the list is cleaned and the skaters are place to events at the meeting of 6 Federations.

The situation with Sokolova-she had 1 event guarantedd but decided to stop skating.

BTW, Gerbold is trying pairs now.

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Russian ladies have 2 good senior ladies then, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw both Polina's and Anna on the SGP next year just because Ksenia and Alena will probably finish top 12 at worlds, but potentially they might not, but assuming they do they each get two assingments. And because of their ages the other good little girls in Russia will only be eligible for JGP next season (Elizaveta, Adelina) and some not for another year after that. So if Alena and Ksenia finish top 12 at worlds, they are guaraunteed 2 events, but does that mean they will be the only two ladies skaters Russia will send to the SGP? The three girls at JW could all choose to stay in juniors but then wouldn't there not be enough skaters at the events?