Your top ten ladies of all time?

1. Katarina Witt - I will never forget her Carmen performance at the 88' Olympics. It was truly legendary.
2. Kristi Yamaguchi - She combined artistry with athleticism beautifully. She answered Midori's 3axel threat with 3lutz/3toe and did it consistently, plus she had a 2nd 3lutz later in her program.She's probably the only female US skater (besides Dorothy Hamill maybe) who had a very successful amateur career and has gone on to be just as successful as a pro and is still very successful with commentating and guest appears nearly 20 years after her Olympic. To date, I think she is one of maybe (3) US figure skaters who is well-known to the general public.
3. Midori Ito - Because she pushed the sport with her 3axel. Others pushed before her, but she pushed and as a result others (e.g. Kristi) pushed back with 3/3s etc.
4. Oksana Bauil - Others had artistry before her but I think she set the tone at the 94' Olympics and since then the "artists on ice" and the "baby ballerinas" have emerged in large part due to her influence.
5. Tara Lipinski - I've never seen the type of joy and enthusiasm that she brought when she skated. She really and truly seemed to love skating, and though I'm sure she was as nervous as the next person I never saw it when she skated. She always seem to be in the moment - enjoying the moment. I think what she did at 14 and 15 winning the World Championships and the Olympics, setting records that will never be broken by itself puts her in the top tier of skaters to be remembered. Also, the technical piece she brought to her programs (2) 3lutzs, 3loop/3loop, 3sal/half/3toe. I think many young ladies know her story and wouldn't be upset if they were able to lay it down the way Tara did at such a young age and win Worlds and the Olympics.
6. Irina Slutskaya - I'm not sure how much she influenced the up and coming ladies. I'm sure she has had a huge impact on the ladies coming up in the Russian Figure Skating Union. I think Irina has more titles than any figure skater in recent history. Why she's one of the top ladies for me is because she wasn't a baby ballerina. She wasn't an "artist on ice" or the "soul of figure skating" she was Irina. She did it her way and she was very successful. In addition to that she went through some very rough times. Once season I think she finished 15th at Worlds and this was after she'd actually won a world title, but even through her failures and her illnesses she kept fighting and came back to win another World title and an Olympic medal. She is a very tough woman and gave new meaning to the word true athlete.
7. Sasha Cohen - Despite her falls and faults. She is truly a beautiful skater. IMO all of the spiral positions, artistry/baby ballerinas we are seeing on ice today are being directly influenced by what Sasha brought to the ice. IMO all these ladies (whether they're doing it consciously or not) are attempting to capture the beauty and grace she brought to the ice when she was competing.

1. Michelle Kwan
2. Sonia Henie
3. Janet Lynn
4. Sasha Cohen
5. Katarina Witt
6. Kim Yu Na
7. Mao Asada
8. Tara Lipinski
9. Peggy Fleming
10.Kristi Yamaguchi

Layfan said:

No, I've always thought so. I thought she managed to close the artistry gap between her and Michelle Kwan for that one performance, especially since Kwan was cautious that night and Tara skated with abandon. The judges made the right decision.

But I don't know if just based on that night I'd put Tara on a list of great artists and leave Michelle out!

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Michelle built her fan-base by winning a lot of competitions... not with her artistry.

Enero said:

1. Katarina Witt - I will never forget her Carmen performance at the 88' Olympics. It was truly legendary.
2. Kristi Yamaguchi - She combined artistry with athleticism beautifully. She answered Midori's 3axel threat with 3lutz/3toe and did it consistently, plus she had a 2nd 3lutz later in her program.She's probably the only female US skater (besides Dorothy Hamill maybe) who had a very successful amateur career and has gone on to be just as successful as a pro and is still very successful with commentating and guest appears nearly 20 years after her Olympic. To date, I think she is one of maybe (3) US figure skaters who is well-known to the general public.
3. Midori Ito - Because she pushed the sport with her 3axel. Others pushed before her, but she pushed and as a result others (e.g. Kristi) pushed back with 3/3s etc.
4. Oksana Bauil - Others had artistry before her but I think she set the tone at the 94' Olympics and since then the "artists on ice" and the "baby ballerinas" have emerged in large part due to her influence.
5. Tara Lipinski - I've never seen the type of joy and enthusiasm that she brought when she skated. She really and truly seemed to love skating, and though I'm sure she was as nervous as the next person I never saw it when she skated. She always seem to be in the moment - enjoying the moment. I think what she did at 14 and 15 winning the World Championships and the Olympics, setting records that will never be broken by itself puts her in the top tier of skaters to be remembered. Also, the technical piece she brought to her programs (2) 3lutzs, 3loop/3loop, 3sal/half/3toe. I think many young ladies know her story and wouldn't be upset if they were able to lay it down the way Tara did at such a young age and win Worlds and the Olympics.
6. Irina Slutskaya - I'm not sure how much she influenced the up and coming ladies. I'm sure she has had a huge impact on the ladies coming up in the Russian Figure Skating Union. I think Irina has more titles than any figure skater in recent history. Why she's one of the top ladies for me is because she wasn't a baby ballerina. She wasn't an "artist on ice" or the "soul of figure skating" she was Irina. She did it her way and she was very successful. In addition to that she went through some very rough times. Once season I think she finished 15th at Worlds and this was after she'd actually won a world title, but even through her failures and her illnesses she kept fighting and came back to win another World title and an Olympic medal. She is a very tough woman and gave new meaning to the word true athlete.
7. Sasha Cohen - Despite her falls and faults. She is truly a beautiful skater. IMO all of the spiral positions, artistry/baby ballerinas we are seeing on ice today are being directly influenced by what Sasha brought to the ice. IMO all these ladies (whether they're doing it consciously or not) are attempting to capture the beauty and grace she brought to the ice when she was competing.

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Hmm.

I guess we could also list the ladies in terms of greatest competitors we've ever seen.

For me it'd go something like this:

Katarina Witt
Tara Lipinski
Michelle Kwan
Kim Yuna
Kristi Yamaguchi
Irina Slutskaya
Sarah Hughes

If I were an up-and-coming skater, maybe I'd look to Tara Lipinski for inspiration on how to be competitive. But I'd look Michelle, Katarina, Kristi, Chen Lu for inspiration on skating.

(And yes, I'd rank Michelle Kwan over Kristi. Kristi won the OGM with a fall and it was Michelle's bad luck that just wasn't good enough in '02. And Michelle was nearly flawless in '98. So, she showed her competitive mettle even while falling short at her Olympics. We never saw a true meltdown from Michelle in a decade of skating. That is astonishing.)

SkatingAnalyst said:

Michelle built her fan-base by winning a lot of competitions... not with her artistry.

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Well. Opinions are interesting.

Artistry is subjective. For me, I don't think I decide whose skating I enjoy based on what they win. My favorite USA skaters this year - Alyssa and Sasha _ didn't even make the Olympic team.

And some of the female skaters who won major titles this year will never be my favorites no matter how many world title or nationals they may win....

Michelle gave me goosebumps when she skated. And it wasn't because I was thinking of how many titles she won.

I've heard a lot of people who have questioned how genuine her artistry was, and that is fair and I don't think everyone needs to enjoy her skating just because that is the common wisdom and the majority opinion.

But may I suggest that it's not quite fair to dismiss her fans as people who only like skaters for their titles and not for what they see on the ice?

I am interested in hearing what you question about Michelle's artistry.

IMO Tara had presentation-not artistry. Don't get me wrong I like Tara. She had programs that played her her strength and showed a lot of joy.

My top ten ladies

Dorothy, Katherine Healy, Elaine Zayak, Tiffany Chin, Midori, Kristi, Katia, Michelle, Sasha and I'll add Yuna, Mao, Joannie, and Mirai altogether because it was all 4 ladies this quad who had me enjoying skating here and there the past Olympic cycle. I love Nicole Bobek and Alissa Czisny as 11 and 12 of my list even though the top ten are not in "best" order they are my top ten. These are the ladies who have kept me interested in skating. I love each for a different reason.

As I said, Michelle built her fan-base by winning a lot of competitions.

People have a tendency...If they see same person over and over, they get familiar with that person. And when the person keep on winning for the contry... the person becomes a hero and everything the person does... look so great.
I liked Michelle when she won Worlds 5 times for the USA. But I always wanted Sasha to win because... I always was facinated by her beautiful display of her flexibility.
I bet more people love sasha in Japan or Russia than Michelle... because BEAUTIFUL SKATING is more important to them than Michelle winning for the USA.

Layfan said:

Well. Opinions are interesting.

Artistry is subjective. For me, I don't think I decide whose skating I enjoy based on what they win. My favorite USA skaters this year - Alyssa and Sasha _ didn't even make the Olympic team.

And some of the female skaters who won major titles this year will never be my favorites no matter how many world title or nationals they may win....

Michelle gave me goosebumps when she skated. And it wasn't because I was thinking of how many titles she won.

I've heard a lot of people who have questioned how genuine her artistry was, and that is fair and I don't think everyone needs to enjoy her skating just because that is the common wisdom and the majority opinion.

But may I suggest that it's not quite fair to dismiss her fans as people who only like skaters for their titles and not for what they see on the ice?

I am interested in hearing what you question about Michelle's artistry.

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tarotx said:

IMO Tara had presentation-not artistry. Don't get me wrong I like Tara. She had programs that played her her strength and showed a lot of joy.

My top ten ladies

Dorothy, Katherine Healy, Elaine Zayak, Tiffany Chin, Midori, Kristi, Katia, Michelle, Sasha and I'll add Yuna, Mao, Joannie, and Mirai altogether because it was all 4 ladies this quad who had me enjoying skating here and there the past Olympic cycle. I love Nicole Bobek and Alissa Czisny as 11 and 12 of my list.


Dorothy was my first

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Interesting comment, which I totally agree with. Often times people do confuse artistry with presentation or presence (myself included). I think Sasha is/was an artist on ice. Michelle and Tara, not so much. Both skaters were fortunate enough to have programs choregraphed to their strengths which (besides their jumps) helped them win titles. Actually I'd say there have been very few female artists on ice IMHO.

Enero said:

Interesting comment, which I totally agree with. Often times people do confuse artistry with presentation or presence (myself included). I think Sasha is/was an artist on ice. Michelle and Tara, not so much. Both skaters were fortunate enough to have programs choregraphed to their strengths which (besides their jumps) helped them win titles. Actually I'd say there have been very few female artists on ice IMHO.

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I'd still like to hear what your definitions of artistry is and why you guys don't think Michelle had it. If presence and presentation aren't part of artistry then what is?

Sasha had great presence and even better presentation. That's part of what made her such a great artist, just like Michelle. Sasha had more physical tools to show off her presence and presentation than Michelle or Tara. Best flexibility and turnout I've ever seen. That's what made her positions so exquisite.
Sasha also knew how to perform - how to skate to the music, make every beat of music count and, not rush through any moment, extend her every move.
But so did Michelle! That's why I consider Michelle an "artist" even though she may not have been as flexible as Sasha or have her turnout (although Michelle was pretty flexible).

In Nagano, Tara also showed she understood her music and could make every beat count and not forget to perform for one minute. I'd only rank her lower than Sasha and Michelle on artistry because she didn't quite have the maturity sophistication they showed. But she was almost there.

I hope that this doesn't become a Michelle vs Sasha thread. I love both ladies and think they are both artist. Sasha's beautiful to me to watch skate. Some people don't think Sasha's an artist because they say she holds back a lot of herself from her audience. She's divine to me though and I could watch her skating performance 24-7. Her grace, line, carriage, moves and presence are what I crave. And IMO the best of Michelle is when she's sharing what ever she's experiencing as she skates. She may be a presentation skater but she had a quality to every thing she put out on the ice. It just wasn't programs suited for her. She did characters wonderful but her art was in knowing herself and allowing us to share her on ice emotions. Michelle had a lot of fans at 12 and really picked up steam with her 2008 national's performance. It wasn't the wins but Michelle finding Michelle and sharing her with the us. All my opinion of course.

tarotx said:

I hope that this doesn't become a Michelle vs Sasha thread. I love both ladies and think they are both artist. Sasha's beautiful to me to watch skate. Some people don't think Sasha's an artist because they say she holds back a lot of herself from her audience. She's divine to me though and I could watch her skating performance 24-7. Her grace, line, carriage, moves and presence are what I crave. And IMO the best of Michelle is when she's sharing what ever she's experiencing as she skates. She may be a presentation skater but she had a quality to every thing she put out on the ice. It just wasn't programs suited for her. She did characters wonderful but her art was in knowing herself and allowing us to share her on ice emotions. Michelle had a lot of fans at 12 and really picked up steam with her 2008 national's performance. It wasn't the wins but Michelle finding Michelle and sharing her with the us. All my opinion of course.

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It's not Sasha vs. Michelle for me because I love them both. I just like to hear people's opinions, especially when they react to a skater's artistry so differently than I do I find it very interesting and I like hearing why, just pushing for more explanation, that's all.

I agree with all you said about Michelle, btw.

Michelle Kwan - the package, the standard
Sasha Cohen - the definition of beauty on ice
Yu Na Kim
Kristi Yamaguchi
Mao Asada
Midori Ito
Tara Lipinski
Lu Chen
Irina Slutskaya
Oksana Baiul

The Kween with no artistry? Unbelievable We are all entitled to our opinions, of course, but in all my time at GSF I've never encountered an opinion I've been so surprised by. I have never seen a single skater be able to express so many emotions in such a variegated body of programs. It helps that she competed for so long, but with age and maturity, she was able to put herself into her programs. From some point in time, she stopped performing just what the choreographer prescribed and gave so much more. That was art for me. It was art coming from within. She was able to be graceful, passionate, powerful and... well, a lot of different adjectives. You get my point

I think there's a possible distinction between expressive, often explosive artistry and more subtle artistry. Sasha's artistry and the Kween's are very different.

dlgpffps said:

The Kween with no artistry? Unbelievable We are all entitled to our opinions, of course, but in all my time at GSF I've never encountered an opinion I've been so surprised by. I have never seen a single skater be able to express so many emotions in such a variegated body of programs. It helps that she competed for so long, but with age and maturity, she was able to put herself into her programs. From some point in time, she stopped performing just what the choreographer prescribed and gave so much more. That was art for me. It was art coming from within. She was able to be graceful, passionate, powerful and... well, a lot of different adjectives. You get my point

I think there's a possible distinction between expressive, often explosive artistry and more subtle artistry. Sasha's artistry and the Kween's are very different.

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:thumbsup: This is the first time I heard someone say Michelle is not known for her artistry

not ten, but...

Michelle Kwan: my absolute favorite female skater of all time
Katerina Witt
Sonia Henje
Kristi Yamaguchi
Peggy Fleming
Lu Chen
Oksana Baiul
Yuna Kim: the girl who made me care about FS again

Love these types of threads...

I broke my list down to skaters that stay fresh in my heart and mind while adding to my dvd and youtube collection...Not all of my favs are champs, not all are popular and two are infamous, but these are the skaters that moved me in some way and the reason why I still love this sport.

I assume in five years, I'll bump some to replace with MiRai, Miki, and Yuna - but not yet. I need time to miss someone before I can say "wow - she was GREAT!!"

1. Michelle Kwan... All hail Michelle! Keeper of the Light!
2. Irina Slutskaya
3. DivaKwara... that Ina is a thing of beauty
4. Yukina Ota
5. Katarina Witt
6. Debbie Thomas
7. Oksana
8. Surya Bonali
9. Nicole Bobeck
10. Tonya Harding

i would also add lucinda ruh to the list... she always showed great joy and artistry and we don't need to talk about the spins.... unfortunately she couldn't jump

Layfan said:

I'd still like to hear what your definitions of artistry is and why you guys don't think Michelle had it. If presence and presentation aren't part of artistry then what is?

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For me an “artist on ice” is not just someone who can emote well, but someone who can combine that emotion with creative and beautiful movement. IMO, Sasha did this very well. Not only did she immerse herself in the music, expressing herself through every note, but the moves that she incorporated with that emotion (the finishing touches of her pointed toes and her exquisite positions) were a work of art to me. I would say the same for Anissina & Peizerant (and M/D’s 1992 Olympic Long Program). A/P weren’t “beautiful” on ice, but the emotion combined with their creative moves was art to me. M/D’s “Dreams of Love” program from 1992 was IMHO a work of art – absolutely exquisite program, position after position along with the presence they exuded made this program amazing.

Michelle and Tara had great choregraphy and wonderful emotion – presence, but nothing about their skating (with the exception of Michelle’s spiral) was so beautiful or creative that it made me want to stop the program and capture that moment/s in time. With Sasha and the others mentioned above there were countless times throughout their programs that I wanted to do just that, stop the program and capture the moment in time. The best way I can explain it is that “moment/program should be on a wall somewhere.”

actually for me it is hard why i have so many to limit to top 10
but they would be
michelle
peggy
kristi
katarina
janet lynn
tenley
carol heiss
shizuka
linda fratianne
soujka dysktra (sorry i misspelled her name)

than it would be
irina slutskaya
annette poetsch
sonja henje
maribel owen
theresa blanchard
barabara ann scott
yu-na
mao
lu chen
elaine zayak
tara
sarah
this is only partial list.
but the orders could be mixed- like i stated hard for me state. i like all skaters in their own ways
and for their own skating methods styles and artistry.

I love Callystarr's list! I'm just gonna go ahead and copy/paste and swap one.

In no particular order:
Michelle Kwan
Sasha Cohen
Yu Na Kim
Kristi Yamaguchi
Mao Asada
Midori Ito
Tara Lipinski
Lu Chen
Irina Slutskaya
Janet Lynn