MENS LP and the Results | Page 35 | Golden Skate

MENS LP and the Results

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Plushenko and Cohen were invited to events. Doesn't that depend on the Japanese federation. He won TEB and Coc and won silver at the GPF.
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
It's the offical the sport is dying Pchiddy with a crap performance like that gets first when BRian lands 2 quads, a triple axel, and pcrappy was off more than he was on.

I am so angry tonight that Chan finished as high as he did. Unless the ISU is forced to increase the value of the quad and start recognizing what's important in men's skating, I am going to have to agree with Elvis Stojko's comments earlier this year. I can really understand Stojko's frustration now.
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
It is funny!! The same people who say that Brian should have been ahead of Patrick because of the quad also say that Brezina should have been ahead. LOOK AT THE PROTOCOLS!! Patrick did 2 triple axels, 2 triple lutzs and a triple flip/triple toe and Brezina did 2 triple axels, 2 triple flips, no triple/triples and did 2 double axels. The Base Values were 74.70 for Chan vs 69.21 for Brezina. It's called working the system. Patrick does more triples and therefore get more points to start with. Learn and love the system!!

Patrick made a mistake on one of his triple axels.

And the point about triples and quads is that the quad needs to be given more value so that doing it, and particularly doing two of them, gives a skater a higher base value. We now have a system where a skater like Chan doesn't even do a single quad in a program or even bother attempting one!
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Enought about Mr. Dead Eyes!! Can we talk about someone else??? lol

I'm wondering what wll happen for Oda. since we failed to reach free skate, does it mean he wouldnt be eligible for any grand prix assignments??

No, he would still qualify based on his season's best total score at an ISU sanctioned competition as the ISU will use that score and compare it to the top 12th skaters in the 2010 Worlds. Since his season's best is clearly better than most skaters in the top 12, he will have no problem getting two GP assignments, though, not necessarily his first choices however. Same thing goes for Plushenko, Lysacek and Weir should they want to take part in the next GP season.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Enought about Mr. Dead Eyes!! Can we talk about someone else???

eh...no, just to make you go crazy, a fun trivia fact about Chan. He is actually the youngest male skater among the top 10 in the 2010 Worlds, younger than Rippon and Brezina. Shocking eh? Considering he has been around for some time now, we tend to forget he is still younger than some of the men who are just breaking into the senior rank now...
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Just watched the TV coverage again on US. I could watch Dice-K over and over again. My husband, who isn't into FS at all just said "Wow!"

And I just looked up DIce-K's 2007 Phantom program! With classic Dick Button commentary! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1627N_mJDc

ETA: Paul Wylie says at the end of the program, "This is such a great moment in a skater's career.." Little did he know what would happen three years later. :)
 
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Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
Patrick hasn't had that many meltdowns. And to say that his resume isn't glowing is insulting. He is 19 years old. Many of his competitors are 5+ year older than him and his is still beating them. Let's not forget he is the 2-time World Silver medalist who was the world JUNIOR silver medalist 3 years ago. He was the national junior champion in 05 and competed in his first senior nationals in 06. Lysacek, Joubert, Oda & Takahashi were all competing at the worlds or olympics in 06. Patrick is the future of mens skating and once he adds the quad....WATCH OUT!!

At this point I don't see Patrick Chan being able to do the quad. I think he is going to follow in the footsteps of Jeffrey Buttle in that regard.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Originally Posted by DivaDes
Patrick hasn't had that many meltdowns. And to say that his resume isn't glowing is insulting. He is 19 years old. Many of his competitors are 5+ year older than him and his is still beating them. Let's not forget he is the 2-time World Silver medalist who was the world JUNIOR silver medalist 3 years ago. He was the national junior champion in 05 and competed in his first senior nationals in 06. Lysacek, Joubert, Oda & Takahashi were all competing at the worlds or olympics in 06. Patrick is the future of mens skating and once he adds the quad....WATCH OUT!!

Well it helps that he's competiting for Canada-a powerful federation and that he doesn't exactly have a strong men's field in Canada. But it was strong enough when he was starting off where at least someone like Jeff was ensuring they got 2 spots. Poor Brezina lost out on Senior Worlds last year because Tomas imploded in 2008. Just like with Kostner vs Marcheti. There was no way Brezina was making the world team over Tomas.... (Of course he's now undisputedly no 1 for the Czechs at this moment...)

And then there is Kozuka/Oda having to deal with being behind Daisuke. Or Adam having to deal with just making the team in a strong field. Is not like Chan hasn't had some advantages politically and experience wise.
Chan has excellent flexibility in his spins and has that theatrical presence.

I just don't agree about Chan having this theatrical presence. If anything I think that facial expression and reaching the crowd are the things with Chan's skating that he needs to work on. I mean when you compare Chan to Daisuke and even Joubert-he's no where near the performers those two are. And yes while Chan does have better transitions/harder in between content/better music. It doesn't make him a better performer than Joubert.
 
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wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Well it helps that he's competiting for Canada-a powerful federation. Do you seriously think Chan would have the results he's had if he had to deal with let's say being no 2 in a country behind Daisuke.

Funny, Korea is not a powerful nation as far as figure skating is concerned, yet somehow Yu-Na Kim seems to manage just fine. Do you have a political explanation for that as well or should I rather believe as numerous youtube clips claim, it's due to Korean money that bought Kim where she is today?
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
Funny, Korea is not a powerful nation as far as figure skating is concerned, yet somehow Yu-Na Kim seems to manage just fine. Do you have an explanation for that as well or should I rather believe as numerous youtube clips claim, it's due to Korean money that bought Kim where she is today?

Unlike Chan, she usually skates very well and skates clean programs, as she did at the Olympics. In her case the marks she gets are because of talent, not politics.

Btw, I am Canadian and I object to the preferential treatment given to Patrick Chan.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Funny, Korea is not a powerful nation as far as figure skating is concerned, yet somehow Yu-Na Kim seems to manage just fine. Do you have a political explanation for that as well or should I rather believe as numerous youtube clips claim, it's due to Korean money that bought Kim where she is today?

Yu na is head and fields above the rest of the field. She skates faster and is doing big time technical tricks like 3lutz/3toes. The only person who does harder technical jumps is Mao, and Yu-na is more consistent than Mao.. Its hard to ignore a girl who is doing huge 3flip/3toes and no 3lutz/3toes in the short program. While Patrick has very good edges and transitions/in between elements, he's not exactly the best skater in everything that the Canadians make him out to be. The things he does well would be very easy for the judges to ignore if he came from a less powerful federation. Look at how S/S have gotten treated this year. As soon as a team from a powerful federation came along that could come close to them and the Russians got better.

And the Korean federation certainly has more power than lets say the German federation. Considering the HUGE amounts of revenue the tv rights bring. And the fact that the Koreans dominate short track skating.

I'm not saying Patrick doesn't do somethings incredibly well because he truly does. His edges and skating skills, and ability to do hard transitions in between jumps is to die for. But he's not the most wonderful artist on ice right now-he could like Kozuka work on reaching the audience more (for one thing) and more expression. While his blades are great, I don't think he's the best at really expressioning the music with his whole body (including face) like Daisuke/Lambiel. And Patrick's jumps aren't exactly the best of the men, and while he's a good spinner, I think Kozuka is better. I'm just tired of hearing from Canadians that Patrick is the beeesst at everything else. I'm sorry I just don't agree. And Patrick is done no favors when he's told this.
 
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jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
I really wish Jeremy get coached by Brian Orser. David Wilson will loosen his anxiety and Orser will help him with confidence as they did to Yuna. He has everything but nerve. Maybe he should be coached by prushenko, the king of confidence... sigh.

I think Jeremy should stay with Yuka Sato. She is a very calm person and she made Jeremy calm. I've seen a big difference before and after his moving to Sato. To see how different his behavior at K&C now and then, you'll see the change.:biggrin: Besides, I loved his costume change from the last year to this year. I believe he'll be better next year.:)
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Patrick Chan skated terribly and walked away with a 1 point off of his personal best. I'm lost for words.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Well it helps that he's competiting for Canada-a powerful federation and that he doesn't exactly have a strong men's field in Canada. But it was strong enough when he was starting off where at least someone like Jeff was ensuring they got 2 spots.

In case you forgot, let me refresh your memory, Jeff Buttle actually won the 2008 Worlds as Canada's #2 man, not #1. Guess who was the Canadian Champion? You got it! The guy who has been bashed by you and a ton of people without good cause in this thread and who happened to be the youngest skater still among Top 10 at the Worlds this year. Your whole argument that if Chan had been #2 in Canada, he wouldn't have done as well just doesn't make any sense given Buttle just proved you can win the World handily by being the number 2 in your own country or for that matter, Evan won the World as the #3 in the U.S. and won the Olympic as the #2 US skater. Just give up on that baseless argument, will you please? These skaters acheived what they have accomplished on their own merits, not because they have a powerful federation or a weak one, for that matter. Do you think the Czechs are considered powerful skating federation? And why would Brezina suddenly move from a nobody to 4th in the World all of sudden? Why would a powerful federation like Russia failed to even qualify 2 spots for next year given that Voronov used to be the Russian Champion prior to Plushenko's return and even placed Top 10 in the Worlds before?
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
In case you forgot, let me refresh your memory, Jeff Buttle actually won the 2008 Worlds as Canada's #2 man, not #1. Guess who was the Canadian Champion? You got it! The guy who has been bashed by you and a ton of people without good cause in this thread and who happened to be the youngest skater still among Top 10 at the Worlds this year. Your whole argument that if Chan had been #2 in Canada, he wouldn't have done as well just doesn't make any sense given Buttle just proved you can win the World handily by being the number 2 in your own country or for that matter, Evan won the World as the #3 in the U.S. and won the Olympic as the #2 US skater. Just give up on that baseless argument, will you please? These skaters acheived what they have accomplished on their own merits, not because they have a powerful federation or a weak one, for that matter. Do you think the Czechs are considered powerful skating federation? And why would Brezina suddenly move from a nobody to 4th in the World all of sudden? Why would a powerful federation like Russia failed to even qualify 2 spots for next year given that Voronov used to be the Russian Champion prior to Plushenko's return and even placed Top 10 in the Worlds before?

Well you have to actually be a good skater too. The Russians don't have a good male skater. And while Patrick may have won the Canadian national championsihp, he didn't have the same standing with the international judges that Jeff had-not by a longshot.

And well Brezina is European, and its not like there are that many top European male skaters right now. Brezina was fourth at Europeans this year in a stacked field. He came very close to making the GPF this year (with tough GP spots too), and had a good showing at the Olympics. And it helps when you can jump like THAT. He's been establishing himself as an up and coming skater for awhile.
 
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Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
Patrick Chan skated terribly and walked away with a 1 point off of his personal best. I'm lost for words.

I know. It's just incredible. To give Patrick Chan 160 points for a program like that is ridiculous. When you don't even have a single quad in a program and then make mistakes on other jumps as well, you should not be placing that high. Chan should have finished 3rd.

He is the most overmarked skater of the week - K&S in the pairs event are also up there as the other big beneficiaries of ridiculous judging this week.
 
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