Ladies - LP | Page 55 | Golden Skate

Ladies - LP

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I happen (maybe I'm a split personality!) to be a fan of both YuNa and Mao, and I'm pretty much equally thrilled when either wins, especially when it means I get to see them skating at their best. But Daniel, I don't think you should ever need to apologize for being an impassioned YuNa fan. A lot of skating preference is subjective, but clearly both of these splendid ladies give an incredible number of reasons for being someone's top favorite. Any admiration of either one is well deserved.

In fact, what you just quoted yourself as saying about both YuNa and Mao are wonderful descriptions of the good traits of both skaters. You happen to prefer YuNa. Go for it!

As a Michelle fan now and forever, I understand. (I don't know whether that makes me a Michelle-bot, but I'd be honored to bear that name!)

Since I'm here, I'll put in my two cents' worth on the U.S. ladies. I'm thinking Rachael is looking ready to sail off in another direction, like Emily Hughes. If that's the case, I wish her the best. I'm sorry she and Mirai couldn't earn three U.S. spots for next year, but they both had the satisfaction of skating in the Olympics--and wasn't Rachael the World Junior Champion a few years back? Not too shabby for a skating career! She looks to be one of those people who uses skating as a springboard (is that a mixed metaphor?) to something even better in later life. I'm sure we'll hear from her again in some other field.

I'm glad to hear all of you praising Mirai as an important part of skating's future. It's been awhile since an American lady has been seen as the future of skating. It has a refreshing sound to it!
 

Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
I don't know how it's possible to compare great skaters, I always thought that they are all great and it's impossible to say, that, for example, Midori Ito is better than Michelle Kwan, etc, because they were both great and they never competed against each other.
Although I actually said one time that Yuna is the best skater of all time...
Hm... Well, I guess it's not the fact of comparing, but how you do it.

You are way too harsh for a fan, janetfan. Who is that Janet anyway? Janet Lynn? Well, no doubts why you don't mention her, cause you like her the most.

chloepoco
Finally watched Mao's LP on Youtube; I thought she was wonderful, and definitely did that music justice.
At the end I liked this program too. I thought that it was horrible when I first saw it, but now I see that it's really good.
 
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Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Olympia
I happen (maybe I'm a split personality!) to be a fan of both YuNa and Mao, and I'm pretty much equally thrilled when either wins, especially when it means I get to see them skating at their best. But Daniel, I don't think you should ever need to apologize for being an impassioned YuNa fan. A lot of skating preference is subjective, but clearly both of these splendid ladies give an incredible number of reasons for being someone's top favorite. Any admiration of either one is well deserved.

In fact, what you just quoted yourself as saying about both YuNa and Mao are wonderful descriptions of the good traits of both skaters. You happen to prefer YuNa. Go for it!
Thank you.
There are a lot of fans of both Mao and Yuna and some of them write a lot at Yuna forum and during this season for a moment it looked like it was Mao fan forum, because Mao was having bad time and a lot of people were worried about her, including those who are exclusively fans of Yuna :)
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I have to agree that I'm upset about Yu-na getting higher PCS than Mao. I prefer Yu-na but seriously, no just no. It shows everything that is wrong with the system that Yu-na got the higher PCS.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
I have to agree that I'm upset about Yu-na getting higher PCS than Mao. I prefer Yu-na but seriously, no just no. It shows everything that is wrong with the system that Yu-na got the higher PCS.

ITA! I agree that Yuna's program has better choreography and deserves higher PCS if she skated it clean, but not today! I am also kinda upset that Mirai's PCS went down like 10 pts (it's a bit much). PCS just doesn't really reflect what happens on that day of competition.
 

hellcat

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
If Yuna is not making excuses, I hope her fans are not either. (not saying you are). Now that we have talked about it many rounds, shall we agree to drop the topic of "jet lags" and 'meeting president"? LOL

Some Yuna fans do, some don't. Likewise, the same is true for Mao fans. You cannot pick any group of people and say ALL of THEM are good/bad.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I have to agree that I'm upset about Yu-na getting higher PCS than Mao. I prefer Yu-na but seriously, no just no. It shows everything that is wrong with the system that Yu-na got the higher PCS.

I see quite a few staunch CoP defenders singing a different tune after this Worlds.
First was the exasperation over Patrick's amazingly good CoP styled skating scoring so many points - and now I am seeing it again over Laura's score. And now Yuna's pcs are too high?

How does a fall take away from Yuna's pcs? Like Patrick, Yuna is a masterful CoP skater. Her program is designed from start to finsih to score points and aside from two mistakes today I still thought Yuna skated and performed very well. Yuna made technical mistakes that could be penalized under her TES. I don't see how her pcs would have to change so much.

For me , the worst abuse of pcs is when a skater like Joubert or Plushy- showing pretty average CH, IN, and TR get those big pcs. That makes no sense to me at all. Yuna has a beautiful LP, with strong CH, IN and TR not to mention her great skating skills.

Where do you think Yuna was overscored on pcs? Or do you just think Mao deserved higher pcs than Yuna?
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
I see quite a few staunch CoP defenders singing a different tune after this Worlds.
First was the exasperation over Patrick's amazingly good CoP styled skating scoring so many points - and now I am seeing it again over Laura's score. And now Yuna's pcs are too high?

How does a fall take away from Yuna's pcs? Like Patrick, Yuna is a masterful CoP skater. Her program is designed from start to finsih to score points and aside from two mistakes today I still thought Yuna skated and performed very well. Yuna made technical mistakes that could be penalized under her TES. I don't see how her pcs would have to change so much.

For me , the worst abuse of pcs is when a skater like Joubert or Plushy- showing pretty average CH, IN, and TR get those big pcs. That makes no sense to me at all. Yuna has a beautiful LP, with strong CH, IN and TR not to mention her great skating skills.

Where do you think Yuna was overscored on pcs? Or do you just think Mao deserved higher pcs than Yuna?

Mao deserves higher PCS than Yuna, because she gave a better performance and it was pretty obvious. Well I am not a staunch supporter of the new system, and I think PCS is more subjective than the second score in 6.0. I don't think Yuna would have gotten higher second marks under 6.0.
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
i think the thing with athelic is when you come to the competition, you got to be 110% prepare and come with a attitude for winning. If you cannot dedicate yourself 100% to training and competition, don't come and compete. Everyone will understand and move on. Yesterday competition is yesterday news!!

Just because u won O Gold mean u r not invincible and peoples cannot use excuse (for every athelics) that 'oh I won everything and there is nothing to prove!!' The thing is there is always something to prove!! And competition is half only talent and the other half is nerve and dedication. Yuna lose because she lacks nerve and lack of competition spirit. Mao won because she is focus and dedicated to doing best of ability.

Fair and square!!! i just wish peoples stop talking about who is better, and Mao won because Yuna isnt hungry. This is sport.

I agree with you mostly (but I hope you understand that Yu-na never made any excuses. She's being a very classy loser). Don't be so mad. No one said Mao didn't win fair and square. I'm just saying I wish Yu-na could've performed better, esp. in the SP, and I think most people here would share that sentiment. Both Yu-na and Mao are great, but hey you win some you lose some. You have your on-nights and your off-nights. That's all :)
 

YN fan

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
I agree with what you are saying. And I was thinking towards the future.
Between Yuna and Mao combined - they have three WCs and two Olympic medals. Michelle has 5 WC's and two Olympic medals.

Think about that for a minute. The two greatest skaters of the CoP era combined have not equalled the Kween yet. And they have both been at it for almost half a decade.

Just saying - especially to newer fans - if you want to be like Sonja, Kati and Michelle - you need to skate, skate and skate. And win titles and medals. Then history will decide your place.

Janetfan, I agree that records and medals are huge attribute to a skater's legacy, but you are overlooking one thing though. The PERFORMANCE. I think Michelle is the greatest of all time not because of her records, but because she had many unforgettable performances that people still talk about. If Yuna and Mao decide to retire NOW, I would still consider them legends of figure skating.

Yuna didn't just win olympic gold medal. She had a performance of a decade which we haven't seen since Katarina Witt. I think every skater dream about having a masterpiece performance like that and they would be happy if they do it once in their life time at any competition. but Yuna did it at the olympic. I mean what more should I say about her Gershwin ?? It's right up there with Katarina Witt's Carmen. not even Michelle had an olympic moment like that.

Mao did Three, I repeat, Three triple axels. Have we seen anything like that ever ??? NO. Not even Midori Ito was able to do what Mao did. and it wasn't just any competition. It was the olympic.

I agree that Michelle, Katarina, Sonja are higher than Yuna and Mao in the figre skating reocord book, but in my opinion, Yuna and Mao are also higher than Kristi or Tara in record book. I don't know maybe I'm just saying this because I'm loving this Yuna & Mao era. I'm hooked. but You can't deny the fact that Yuna & Mao are the best thing in skating right now.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Mao deserves higher PCS than Yuna, because she gave a better performance and it was pretty obvious. Well I am not a staunch supporter of the new system, and I think PCS is more subjective than the second score in 6.0. I don't think Yuna would have gotten higher second marks under 6.0.

I am not so sure that Yuna would have lost today to Mao on the 6.0 presentation marks.

Alot of that was comparative - and all season long judges prefered Yuna's presentation and programs over Mao. They did not typically change so easily.

Where Mao would have won big today under 6.0 would have been on the technical marks. Her 3A's would have been worth more under 6.0 and Yuna's mistakes would have hurt her first set of marks.

For the second set of marks - Mao's doomsday music might not have done as well as Yuna's more lyrical and uplifting style. Very subjective so perhaps you are right ......

Reputation is alive and well under CoP and Yuna is Olympic champion. She will keep her high pcs even when she is not at her best.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
I am not so sure that Yuna would have lost today to Mao on the 6.0 presentation marks.

Alot of that was comparative - and all season long judges prefered Yuna's presentation and programs over Mao. They did not typically change so easily.

Where Mao would have won big today under 6.0 would have been on the technical marks. Her 3A's would have been worth more under 6.0 and Yuna's mistakes would have hurt her first set of marks.

For the second set of marks - Mao's doomsday music might not have done as well as Yuna's more lyrical and uplifting style. Very subjective so perhaps you are right ......

Reputation is alive and well under CoP and Yuna is Olympic champion. She will keep her high pcs even when she is not at her best.

You're right. Actually, this reminds me of the time in 1992 SP where Midori really messed up her SP but still got higher second marks than Tonya who I thought did better (and I do prefer Midori more but Tonya was better that day). The commentators also mentioned that Tonya had more energy in her SP but the judges probably thought Midori was more prepared during the warmup since Tonya did come last minute and didn't seem well-prepared in the warm up. I feel PCS is really unfair to younger skaters because even if they have a breakout night, their PCS won't exceed the top skaters but if they mess up their PCS get slammed hard. This hasn't changed at all from the old days.
 

magicalwords

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
After watching Yu-Na's program a couple more times, I have to say I was fairly disappointed with her at this Worlds although I do appreciate her showing up at Worlds unlike many other Olympic champions had done in the past. I just wish she had shown more passion and at least tried to show that she had motivation because the Yu-Na I like is not the one that skates like whatever because she already has everything. But I do wish she continues on and hope that she gets remembered as one of the best in history of figure skating as she wishes. Go Yu-Na!!

And I liked Mao's performance @ Olys better, I just thought she had more energy @ Olys even though her jumps looked much easier here. No doubt she deserved her win, though. Once again, congratulations.
 

YN fan

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
After watching Yu-Na's program a couple more times, I have to say I was fairly disappointed with her at this Worlds although I do appreciate her showing up at Worlds unlike many other Olympic champions had done in the past. I just wish she had shown more passion and at least tried to show that she had motivation because the Yu-Na I like is not the one that skates like whatever because she already has everything. But I do wish she continues on and hope that she gets remembered as one of the best in history of figure skating as she wishes. Go Yu-Na!!

And I liked Mao's performance @ Olys better, I just thought she had more energy @ Olys even though her jumps looked much easier here. No doubt she deserved her win, though. Once again, congratulations.

man, I felt exactly the same. Yuna today was not the same Yuna I knew. I don't know I thought Mao's was as good as her olympic performance. yeah, congratualtions to all medalists:
Congratulation to Mao on becoming a two-time World champion !
Congratulation to Yuna on completing the whole set of World championship medals (hahahaha) !
Congratualtion to Laura on her first World medal. (it is her first one, right? )
 
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prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Janetfan, I agree that records and medals are huge attribute to a skater's legacy, but you are overlooking one thing though. The PERFORMANCE. I think Michelle is the greatest of all time not because of her records, but because she had many unforgettable performances that people still talk about. If Yuna and Mao decide to retire NOW, I would still consider them legends of figure skating.

Yuna didn't just win olympic gold medal. She had a performance of a decade which we haven't seen since Katarina Witt. I think every skater dream about having a masterpiece performance like that and they would be happy if they do it once in their life time at any competition. but Yuna did it at the olympic. I mean what more should I say about her Gershwin ?? It's right up there with Katarina Witt's Carmen. not even Michelle had an olympic moment like that.

Mao did Three, I repeat, Three triple axels. Have we seen anything like that ever ??? NO. Not even Midori Ito was able to do what Mao did. and it wasn't just any competition. It was the olympic.

I agree that Michelle, Katarina, Sonja are higher than Yuna and Mao in the figre skating reocord book, but in my opinion, Yuna and Mao are also higher than Kristi or Tara in record book. I don't know maybe I'm just saying this because I'm loving this Yuna & Mao era. I'm hooked. but You can't deny the fact that Yuna & Mao are the best thing in skating right now.
I agree with you.

I don't get the logic of some posters who say things like "Michelle has 5 World titles and YuNa and Mao only have 3 between them." Umm, YuNa and Mao both only attended 4 World Championships. Hello? Brain? Are you there? :confused:

And actually, Michelle had quite an Olympic moment in 1998, it just happened to be slightly outshone by Tara's. It's a shame. These were both better than Kristi's 1992 Oly's performance.

The performance matters. :)
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
So, at the Olympics, Mao botches two jumping passes in the LP and gets much higher PCS than Mirai there, who had the only other flawless performance of the night behind Yu-Na. Way higher PCS than Miki or Laura, who both completed more triples than Mao. Oh, and she got slightly lower PCS than Rochette, who had a few flaws in the landings. I don't think anyone cried foul there. I think most people felt that though Mao only did 4 triples, the triple axels added enough difficulty to the program to get her PCS above those skaters--but not Yu-Na, who was flawless, or Rochette, who did 7 triples.

Here, Yu-Na botches two jumping passes in the LP and gets 2.5 points more in PCS than a skater who had a cleaner performance, Mao, who had two triple axels (one downgraded). People cry foul. Same story, different skater. When Mao messed up at the Olympics, the two triple axels made up for it. And when Yu-Na messed up here at worlds, the difficulty of what she did land and the rest of her program made up for it.

This is the same system that gave Mao the world championship in 2008 when she completely missed her triple axel attempt and fell and then took a lap around the rink to recover. She got the highest PCS of the night with that program, 2 points over Yu-Na's, though Yu-Na was cleaner when you compare their mistakes (Mao had a fall on an aborted jump and a downgrade versus Yu-Na's popped lutz). I was fine with Mao winning there because Yu-Na had a poor short, and the difficulty of the rest of Mao's program made up for the fall on the attempted triple axel. Just like the difficulty of Yu-Na's program here made up for the fall on the salchow and the missed double axel.
 

brianjyw

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
ITA! I agree that Yuna's program has better choreography and deserves higher PCS if she skated it clean, but not today! I am also kinda upset that Mirai's PCS went down like 10 pts (it's a bit much). PCS just doesn't really reflect what happens on that day of competition.

IMHO, a clean skating should not garantee higher PCS. Otherwise, the quality of FS will suffer greatly.:)
 
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