Hey, where's Fosse on this thread.
Fosse is the president of the Golden Skate Sarah Hughes fan club. She likes Emily, too. Hasn't been around for a while.
Sarah Hughes
- Thread starter princess9
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:agree: (at least about DeLillo).
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- Oct 19, 2009
I don't completely get the analogy, since I don't know DeLillo or Dos Passos, but I think one of the most remarkable things about the English language is that although it can be intricate and complex, it is also extremely malleable and dynamic; creative ways to bend and twist the language away from the "proper standards" are often celebrated. On the other hand, doesn't the CoP dictate more precisely what and how things will be judged? It is a rigid system. I think there is both good and bad to that.
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- Jun 3, 2008
Insisting that she had superior 3-3 that now skaters dont have, doesnt it come in contradiction with this season's mantra that quads - or the 11 quads in mens LP in 2002 dont mean anything about skaters quality comparing to now? If quads are not a factor to judge, neither are her jumps.
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- May 15, 2009
I was referring to the basics and not intricasies.
I am still wondering when CoP judges will be honest or competent - take your choice - and start calling the pcs better.
I can start with TR and wonder if most judges were absent on the day it was taught in judging school.
Other fans might mention IN - some skaters ignore music but still get scored like they were Gene Kelly on skates. Some skaters have intricate CH and not for 3-6 second bursts but throughout the whole program. Yet there scores are the same as some very dumbed down choreo we see.
I see little relationship to some of the scores for pcs in relationship to what happens on the ice.
The fact that many here say, "well since jumps don't get enough points the judges are compensating for this by giving higher marks in the pcs."
My answer to that is "two wrongs don't make a right."
Or better, NO, NO,NO it is wrong and blatant cheating when that happens. It happens all the time.
I admit COP confuses me - mostly when they don't follow their own rules.
Sigh. This is my biggest difficulty with COP, too. People try to explain - well, Rachael's choreography was more intrincate, she had more transitions than Mirai, she had more complex footwork than Mirai, she technically interpreted her music well. Well, okay if you break it down like that ... But the overall effect ... Did she look as graceful and effortless as Mirai at nationals? Heck, no. And not even close.
Frankly, I think judging figure skating necessarily has a very subjective factor to it - MUCH more than other judged sports like gymnastics or diving - and trying to take the subjectivity out completely is folly.
One way to make skating more objective is just throw out the damn PCS already. At least the TES is based on CONCRETE actions on the ice...
But no, most will argue, we can't really do that, otherwise it'll be more like jump skating. Catch-22, folks...whatcha gonna do.
But no, most will argue, we can't really do that, otherwise it'll be more like jump skating. Catch-22, folks...whatcha gonna do.
I think making a case of the greatest tech OGM is totally fruitless, b/c tech is forever going forward, who knows by 2014 some Russian super girl may land triple axel/triple, and have all the speed/flow difficult entries toe, even if tht dos not have happen in 2014, someday in the future that will happen. I totally disagree with you about YuNa being so call greatest OGM technically. Hello, I love to see must one solo triple loop. And BTW, is layback spin tech too? Sarah has a lovely one, Tara has one, and Yuna's???
I am a Sarah Fan, and to answer someone asking earlier what was her 2002 sp, oh well she was 4th in placement after sp. (And as a young teenager she was pissed off at the judges too). Anyway, I do agree with the placement on the podium in 2002, and I am huge Mk fan.
Definitely agree on Nicole, Mk and Sasha. But I fail to see how Mao, Mirai and Caroline are imitating Sasha. Under COP, all skaters' spiral positions look the same. Shizuka's 06 spiral sequence was an exception. I have seen Mao tried that. Anyway, I know Sasha Cohen PR machine had tried in the past to (TM) her moves, oh yeah the famous SashaCurl(TM) skated on flat, but unless the OLys tech committee gives the blessing those self promotion (TM) are not hers. Therefore I don't see skaters copying her. AFAIK, MK is CAroline's role model, Mao and Arakawa are Mirai's, and none of them have mentioned Cohen as their role model.
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- Jun 27, 2003
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- May 15, 2009
Just what we need - throw out the presentation aspects and make everything about the TES.
But, of course the GOE would most likely be increased - and the subjectivity along with it.
Geez - when does the World Cup start so I can wonder about offsides calls, red and yellow cards and what that player's intentions were when the ball bounced off his hand?
Nothing like a real sport with nothing to argue about
But, of course the GOE would most likely be increased - and the subjectivity along with it.
Geez - when does the World Cup start so I can wonder about offsides calls, red and yellow cards and what that player's intentions were when the ball bounced off his hand?
Nothing like a real sport with nothing to argue about
Rotfl!
But I must confess: If I look deeply into my soul, I'm probably not a skating fan because it's a sport I enjoy. I love skating because it's an art I enjoy. What do I know about sports? I'm happy to see all the jumps, and I appreciate that skaters are among the best-conditioned athletes in the world, but that's not what speeds up my heartbeat when I watch. Someone does a triple toe and someone else does a triple lutz? Cool. Someone sticks her leg out behind her in a vague way, and someone else does a 180-degree spiral? Now, that I'll remember.
Enjoy the World Cup!
But I must confess: If I look deeply into my soul, I'm probably not a skating fan because it's a sport I enjoy. I love skating because it's an art I enjoy. What do I know about sports? I'm happy to see all the jumps, and I appreciate that skaters are among the best-conditioned athletes in the world, but that's not what speeds up my heartbeat when I watch. Someone does a triple toe and someone else does a triple lutz? Cool. Someone sticks her leg out behind her in a vague way, and someone else does a 180-degree spiral? Now, that I'll remember.
Enjoy the World Cup!
Flashback to 2006 and what was great then is nearly gone now! LOL quad requiem time.
Technically, that's certainly true--well, with the exception cited by gmyers. But with skating, artistic excellence doesn't always move across a line of progression. Maybe this is an unfair comparison for several reasons, but it's a good contrast for argument's sake. Compare Janet Lynn in her best performance from 1972 with, say, Rachael Flatt in her best performance today. You don't have to pick the one who's better, but artistically, which one commands the ice and the music? Because that's such an important part of skating, you kind of have to take that into consideration.
What I'm saying is that I think you're right that it's unfair to compare skaters across generations, but I disagree that what's great now will necessarily be commonplace in 10 years. The paradox of skating!
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- Jun 3, 2009
The more you know and understand about the English language (or any language), the more likely you are able to understand its grace notes, nuances and subtleties. If all I read is "See Spot Run" or the Mr. Men series and then I try to read DeLillo/Shakespeare/Fitzgerald (or Proust or Thomas Mann or Miguel Cervantes etc), is it truly fair for me to criticize those books as flawed simply because I haven't made the effort to be on their level? Or lets use poetry as an example. When you're young, poetry us about things like haiku, limericks, and rhymes. Things that sound essentially (whether it's the 5-7-5 or the abab). This is poetry at it's most obvious. Eventually, when you get older, poetry becomes about metaphors, language and metre - things that are less obvious to you but hopefully you learn.
When people complain about the sport losing it's popularity, they're complaining about the audience that doesn't know the different between the jumps. Those that don't know about the intricacies of spins or spirals. They know the obvious stuff (the big jumps) and might recognize extreme excellence in other areas (I'm thinking of Lambiel's spins, or Yagudin's iconic footwork), but overall, the audience hasn't taken time to learn the differences (why exactly is a triple lutz harder than a triple toe). So trying to get back the audience, by definition, means buffing out the intricacies that I adore. Means bringing skating down to a level that instead of being a piece of Mahler, it's a Britney Spears song (to mix metaphors even further)
Here's the thing. I do consider myself a COP man. But I did watch 6.0 skating when it was showing and I didn't love it all that much, and rewatching it on youtube I still don't get all that excited. I don't get all that enthusiastic about Lipinski or Butraskaya or even Kwan, despite truly respecting their achievements (I adore Chen Lu, though. Don't ask me why her and not the rest). But then I watch COP programs - programs like "Le Tango de Roxanne" or "Samson and Delilah" or "Clair de Lune." This season from the men we got Chaplin and La Strada, Phantom and William Tell, the flow of Jeremy Abbott and the humour of Ryan Bradley. And all were celebrated. I know. Men don't have the quad, and it's a sad day in figureskateville. But I see programs bursting at the seams with creative ingenuity and athleticism in ways that I enjoy.
You and me both. But that's not a COP thing, that's a judging thing.
And that's just it - I don't think it's "not even close." I know Nagasu's prettier to watch, but I like Flatt when she's on. Subjectively, I'd rather watch Flatt's junior worlds winning LP or the 09/10 SP than anything Nagasu's done. So if you're arguing for subjectivity, then you can't ignore those that disagree.
There is nothing nitpicking about Yuna's spiral in princfess0 post. She definitely does not have the extension toe point and amplitude like Sasha, Mirai, or Mao. princess was just stating the obvious. Maybe some fans think that is good, or super. One more bonus for the new rules, since spiral sequence is not a requierment, maybe Yuna will delete and drop the spiral sequence completely from her program, and tht to me is good
She doesn't have a perfect spiral position/sequence but I don't think it's bad. But that's my own opinion.
Regarding the spiral sequence, the current rules didn't hurt her during the competition except maybe if she screwed up. So, whether she will drop it or not on the new rules, it doesn't even matter. And it's not like her federation lobbied it for her. Besides Sasha is still the best in terms of extension, no one comes close.
Mao has her own weakness. Mirai has her own weakness. No one is perfect.
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Of course thta is your opinion, did I just said tht, maybe her fans even prefer spirals w/o good extensionsShe doesn't have a perfect spiral position/sequence but I don't think it's bad. But that's my own opinion.
My point of hoping Yuna wil drop the spiral is not about points, it is about many posters' viewning pleasure (I am not the only one who prefer spirals with extensions)Regarding the spiral sequence, the current rules didn't hurt her during the competition except maybe if she screwed up.
. Fed or no fed, I am glad some of us who prefer spirals with good extensions don't have to watch unpleasant spiral positions from so many skaters. For those fans who prefer spirals w/o good extensions you can always rewatch tapes. Hmm agree she has the best extension, but many skiaters do come much closer than others, and absence of Sasha competing, Mirai, Carline and Mao's spiral positions are some of the best among the ladies who are competing today
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Maybe because it's not a big deal, like I said it didn't hurt her, so, why bother?
Ppl bother about their viewing preferences and pleasure, afterall that is why most ppl watch fs, for their own pleasure. Like I said, when ppl bring up the topic of extension of spirals at least in this round of discussion it is not about points.
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