What country can lay claim to best male singles dynasty? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

What country can lay claim to best male singles dynasty?

Jaana

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Is that so? Funky. Not that one should read too much into these precedents...

Yes, one should not read too much into these precedents, but they still are interesting and this one also impressive:

US reigning World champions who won the gold at the Olympics
Richard Button 1952 (also got an Olympic gold medal in 1948)
Hayes A. Jenkins 1956
David Jenkins 1960
Scott Hamilton 1984
Evan Lysacek 2010

Interesting is also the jinx that no reigning World champion won the Olympic gold after Scott Hamilton did in 1984, only Lysacek did beat that jinx in 2010.

Other US World champions have been

Tim Wood
Charles Tickner
Brian Boitano (also an Olympic gold medalist)
Todd Eldredge

All in all I would say that USA is the leading dynasty in men´s skating with

6 different Olympic champions
9 different World champions
 
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dorispulaski

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The original question is why doesn't Canada have more of a tradition of golden ladies when they have had so many top men.
I think it's an interesting question. And you could ask the same thing about Russia - Before Irina and Maria Butyrskaya who were the great Russian lady skaters? (that'd be before my time so I don't know off the top of my head.) And will they have another GM contender anytime soon?.

Before Irina and Maria, there were Vodorezova (5th in 82, 3rd in 83), Ivanova (2nd in 85, 4th in 86, 5th in 87 & Kondrashova (5th in 83, 2nd in 84, 4th in 85, 7th in 86,9th in 87) & Lebedeva (5th in 1989)and Markova (5th in 1995) All placings at Worlds.

There are a bunch of very talented younger girls that are up and coming in Russia, and I expect to see one or more of them on the podium at Sochi.
 

janetfan

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May 15, 2009
Before Irina and Maria, there were Vodorezova (5th in 82, 3rd in 83), Ivanova (2nd in 85, 4th in 86, 5th in 87 & Kondrashova (5th in 83, 2nd in 84, 4th in 85, 7th in 86,9th in 87) & Lebedeva (5th in 1989)and Markova (5th in 1995) All placings at Worlds.

.

Very true - but the placements you cite for Russian Ladies would be considered a failure by US standards.

I agree with Layfan - and always wondered why USA produced such beautiful and elegant Lady skaters and the Russians did not. Heck, even when we think of "baby ballerinas" on ice it is mostly USA Ladies that come to mind.

Perhaps one or two of these highly touted Russian girls will become world class after they grow up.
But the competition now is tougher than ever and winning a European championship does not get a skater as many bonus points as in years past.
 
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Aug 16, 2009
The accepted wisdom used to be that, in the days of the Soviet sports system, if a skater showed promise, he or she was funneled into the Soviet specialties of pairs and ice dancing. So the Soviets did have women skaters who were giants in the field, notably Rodnina (10 world golds, 3 OGMs), Gordeyeva (2 OGMs, several world golds), Irina Pakhomova, Marina Klimova, and so on. The "lesser" skaters went to singles skating. It was only around the 1990s that this formulation changed. Ironically, the first "Soviet-orbit" singles skaters were both Ukrainian, Baiul and Petrenko. After Petrenko, Russian men owned the singles title at the Olympics until this year with Lysacek. For consistency--1992–2006--that's a pretty good record. The American dominance of Worlds and Olympics has been over a longer period of time, of course. So you could argue it both ways, and I'd certainly throw the Canadians in the mix, especially because Browning and Stojko especially have so many world titles and have been such a strong influence on men's skating in general, both as amateurs and as pros. They've also brought in a fan base that has made skating more viable in the West, at least until recently.

Interesting point about which American male world titlists did and did not win an Olympics. If I'm not mistaken, there were no Russian world champions except the Olympians mentioned--and not all of the OGM winners won Worlds as well, I think. (I think Urmanov didn't, for example. Did Petrenko? I think not, but can't recall for sure.)
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Other US World champions have been

Tim Wood
Charles Tickner
Brian Boitano (also an Olympic gold medalist)
Todd Eldredge

Tim Wood was the ultimate wuzrobbed skater. At the 1968 Olympics he got silver instead of gold because one of the judges accidentally held up the wrong card. The judge tried to change it, but too late.

Here is an interesting article from Sports Illustrated about 1970 U.S. Nationals. Wood, the technician and master of school figures (he called himself "the human compass," but I think he meant "the human gyroscope" ;) ) won the championship over the artistic free skater John Misha Petkevich.

In the ladies, Janet Lynn had to hold off the latest Carlo Fassi protege, Julie Lynn Holmes (no relation to Janet Lynn Nowicki :) ). As usual, Fassi was accused of cheating -- this time by copying Janet Lynn's patented hand positions.

As Janet Lynn's coach (Slavka Kohout, once wife of Dick Button) put it,

Fassi is having Julie copy the position of Janet's hands," she charged. "How can she do it—it's a matter of integrity! We've worked six months to develop those original hand placements. We skate after Julie in the championship and now it will look as if we have copied her."

I'm tellin' ya, there's just no integrity in figure skating any more! :cool:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1083336/1/index.htm

Janet's hands: :love:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/95/265421522_d0b547f5e1.jpg
 
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Jaana

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Finland
Interesting point about which American male world titlists did and did not win an Olympics. If I'm not mistaken, there were no Russian world champions except the Olympians mentioned--and not all of the OGM winners won Worlds as well, I think. (I think Urmanov didn't, for example. Did Petrenko? I think not, but can't recall for sure.)

You cannot count Petrenko among Russian Olympic gold medalists, because he is Ukrainian. Russia has 4 Olympic gold medalists. Urmanov and Kulik did not win WC, although Kulik won a silver medal and Urmanov a bronze (or more than one?). Plushenko was a reigning WC and did not win the OG gold in that Olympics.

I have understood that if a Russian skater did not learn a triple axel, he was pushed towards pairs skating. If he generally was not good in jumping, he became an ice dancer...
 
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seniorita

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Jun 3, 2008
Petrenko is Ukrainian but when he competed and won his medal he was competing for Unified Team.

And the nationalism when it comes to fs is the most boring thing ever, like kindergarten we used to claim who had the best color pen box.:rolleye:
 

museksk8r

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I'd say Russia/Soviet Union, easily, with USA 2nd and Canada 3rd.
 
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janetfan

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I'd say Russia/Soviet Union, easily, with USA 2nd and Canada 3rd.

Since the World Figure Skating Championships resumed after WW2 in 1947 here is how the USA and Russian Men have done in the medal count.

USA ............................23 Gold, 18 Silver, 18 Bronze........Total 59 medals

USSR/Unified/Russia......11 Gold, 10 Silver, 8 Bronze.........Total 29 medals.

I don't connsider the Russians to have been the innovators in singles skating - and they certainly can't approach USA Men in Worlds Medals (or Olympic medals).

I fail to see how they have dominated anything but a decade when they indeed came close but did not equal the domination of USA Men in the 50's.

The Soviet/Unified/Russian record in Pairs and Dance is just something that may never be equaled again. It is phenominal as is the Worlds and Olympic medal history of USA Ladies.

Skating is interesting these days - and much more of a World sport.
Asian skaters have bumped USA Ladies and Russian Pairs from dominance.

Dance is stronger in N. America than before. Future competitions should be fun and maybe even less Nationalistic between N. America and Europe.

Not sure if I can say the same for the Asians - but they are newer and I say let them have their fun. :)

Japanese fans and now Korean fans know what it is like to have an Ice Queen. I am sure they will work hard to build a tradition of excellence.
 
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museksk8r

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whole post.

My opinion is still the same. Results are just one aspect. Did it ever occur to you that maybe I prefer the quality of the Russian skaters over some of the American skaters? Besides, in recent history, Russia/Soviet Union has laid claim to the best mens' singles results at the Olympic Games.
 

janetfan

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My opinion is still the same. Results are just one aspect. Did it ever occur to you that maybe I prefer the quality of the Russian skaters over some of the American skaters?

That is a good reason. :)
Personally I can't believe how Curry makes them all look like a bunch of truckdrivers on skates. ;)
That is just my opinion though.
 

museksk8r

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If only every American man skated like John Curry, Jeremy Abbott, Matt Savoie, and Ryan Jahnke, then yes, USA would rule along with Russia. The US men who have claimed gold in recent history with the exception of Brian Boitano have been very lackluster in quality, IMO.
 

janetfan

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. The US men who have claimed gold in recent history with the exception of Brian Boitano have been very lackluster in quality, IMO.

If that is true - then it sounds like the Russians and others at those events must have been extra lacklustre, no :think:
 
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museksk8r

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If that is true - then it sounds like the Russians and others at those events must have been very lackluster in quality, IMO. :think:

Todd Eldredge and Evan Lysacek are not my cup of tea, but then again, neither is Evgeny Plushenko. My discontent with the 2010 Olympic results have to do with the fact that Abbott, Lambiel and Takahashi didn't skate up to their full potential because if they had, Lysacek and Plushenko would not have stood on the top 2 spots. I don't like any competition where the gold and silver medalist triumphs because better skaters make major mistakes. If only everyone could have skated their best, then the results would have been very different I think. I do without a shadow of a doubt prefer Ilia Kulik over Todd Eldredge though. Plushy is the one Russian skater who never grew on me. Give me Yagudin, Urmanov, and Kulik over Plushy any day.
 
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For some reason the U.S. has produced a lot of male skaters who thought of themselves as athlete-entertainers rather than athlete-artists. Scott Hamilton, Michael Weiss, Christopher Bowman, Lysacek -- I would put Rudy Galindo and Todd Eldredge in that category, too, maybe even Weir.
 

janetfan

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Todd Eldredge and Evan Lysacek are not my cup of tea, but then again, neither is Evgeny Plushenko. My discontent with the 2010 Olympic results have to do with the fact that Abbott, Lambiel and Takahashi didn't skate up to their full potential because if they had, Lysacek and Plushenko would not have stood on the top 2 spots. I don't like any competition where the gold and silver medalist triumphs because better skaters make major mistakes. If only everyone could have skated their best, then the results would have been very different I think. I do without a shadow of a doubt prefer Ilia Kulik over Todd Eldredge though. Plushy is the one Russian skater who never grew on me. Give me Yagudin, Urmanov, and Kulik over Plushy any day.

I like those skaters too - maybe not so much Urmanov - who only won because others made mistakes. In fact '94 had more subpar performances from the Men than good ones.

I liked Kulik - but he is sort of like a Tara or Sarah - a skater with one big moment and not many other notable titles to speak of. A nice Pro career though.

I do think Yagudin was the most impressive of the Russians and at his best he would beat the others.

Here he is in Nagano, only 17 and sick with the flu. Still, his quality is easy to see even on an off-night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLMlt3Noavg

BTW, Elvis not only had the injured leg, but he was also sick with the flu the night he skated in Nagano. Never my favorite skater, but he was an impressive competitor.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I liked Kulik - but he is sort of like a Tara or Sarah - a skater with one big moment and not many other notable titles to speak of. A nice Pro career though.

:agree: One of those skaters, like Kristi Yamaguchi and Yuka Sato, who kept growing as a pro.[/QUOTE]
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
My problem in giving allocades to Russian Skaters is that there doesn't seem (to me) much diversity. There is a certain Russian formula which they all have. and it doesn't overwhelm me. They are more sport skaters than performance skaters. Among the Men, how many different styles does one see?. They all look alike.
There is no Daisuke and Nobunari, no Buttle and Stoyko, no Amodio and Joubert, no Lysacek and Weir.

However, that Russian formula does produce good technicians.

As for Kulic, when he decided to reside in America, he realized he needed variety and that he has now.
 

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
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Nov 10, 2008
My problem in giving allocades to Russian Skaters is that there doesn't seem (to me) much diversity. There is a certain Russian formula which they all have. and it doesn't overwhelm me. They are more sport skaters than performance skaters. Among the Men, how many different styles does one see?. They all look alike.

There was Klimkin :love:
 
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