Frank Carroll | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Frank Carroll

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Here is an article about Frank from Brennan/USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/brennan/2010-02-19-brennan-carroll_N.htm?csp=obinsite

"I wanted it desperately for Linda, and for Michelle too," Carroll said in a interview last month. "Time has taught me a lesson. I won't go there this time. The Olympic gold medal is so elusive, like buying a winning lottery ticket."

"You train someone the best you can, you work hard, you leave no stone unturned. But in the end, it's out of your hands."



"All season long, Lysacek said he was thinking of the gold medal not for himself, but for Carroll."
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
No one knows the true reason why Tim was asked to leave. Many rumors revolve around work ethic.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
No one knows the true reason why Tim was asked to leave. Many rumors revolve around work ethic.

Yeah that whole chapter is very shadowy, but I think (as do others) that Frank recognized that Tim's peak years were past and that Evan was the pupil with more potential.
 

ranjake

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
I loved watching Frank watching the ceremony from the boards. he looked so quietly proud like a grandfather watching his grandchild growing up. seeing Frank and Evan interacting was one of the high points of the event for me.

THIS. I was all choked up! One of my favorite Olympic memories- I love and adore Frank Carroll!

Beautiful blog-Olympicfanatic! Loved it!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
With Kwan and Goebel, I believe Carroll was working with injured skaters. I have no facts on this but I think Danny was laying out plans for Michelle's future.

With Bowman, he had to deal with an addiction.

With Lysacek, he worked with a dreamer who never lost sight of his goal.

Most posters here talk about their favorite skaters and not much of the Coaches who got them their Technical prowess, and their Choreographers who gave them the winning performance. No skater that I am aware of has done it alone. Maybe Curry.

I am also happy for Carroll as I am for Lysacek, and of course, Nichol. It takes Three to make an Oly Champ.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I agree with you, Joe! It's good to remember that the skaters are, so to speak, standing on giants' shoulders when they compete. And in fact, I've always said that the person in skating I most want to meet is Lori Nichol. Ah, to talk music with someone who finds such marvelous pieces to use for skating programs! Her work is magical.

This Olympics I was strongly conscious of two coaches, Carroll and Orser, for two different reasons. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. Of course for Orser, I wanted him to experience the gold--not just as a capstone to his skating career, but in tribute to the marvelous job he had done in nurturing, protecting, and carefully preparing YuNa for the most important competition in the history of Korean skating. (No pressure situation there!)

Carroll has, of course, a far longer and more central history as a coach, and he's one of the most respected coaches in the Western Hemisphere. After all the times he was a "bridesmaid" at the Olympics (counting Tim with his bronze as well), it was high time for him to have a skater on the top step of the podium. As you say, Evan was the ideal protegee, one of the hardest workers in skating today--steady, calm, the ideal competitor. My heart literally leaped when I realized that Carroll was the winning coach as Evan's name was called.

And I got to rejoice for Nichol twice this year! She was the choreographer for Evan and for Shen and Zhao as well. Except for that pulse-stopping moment when Shen's hand slipped in the lift, that was one glorious program, the pinnacle of Nichol-esque grace and musicality.

As for what Carroll did for Chris Bowman...I seem to remember that he was one of Bowman's first coaches, probably his first coach as a senior skater. Chris was one of the heartbreak skaters, like Bobek and Harding, loaded with natural talent and with no stability at all. Addiction was just one part of his shortcomings. And even so, he won a world bronze. So Carroll did impart a certain amount to him, after all.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
It's good to remember that the skaters are, so to speak, standing on giants' shoulders when they compete. And in fact, I've always said that the person in skating I most want to meet is Lori Nichol. Ah, to talk music with someone who finds such marvelous pieces to use for skating programs! Her work is magical.

I agree with everything. I was fortunate enough to watch Lori at work during the summer of 2008 when she came to LA to work with Caroline Zhang among others. Watching her at work is just a splendid experience, you can tell she is loving every minute of it. I was too shy to approach her and didn't want to interupt the other student's what must have been very expensive time with her, but had a great exchange when she expressed approval over my freeskate music choice that year. She mentioned it was one of her favorites and sinice then I keep waiting to see if she has used it for any of her skaters but on the senior level anyway it has not appeared.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
But yes, to improve his second mark, absolutely. And it worked, although he never became anything like a silk purse.

Nationals 2005 SP gave hope of what he COULD have done... but I think his emotional state (with Angela Nikodinov's mother dying earlier that day) helped with that more than any other thing... it was brilliantly beautiful (so wish it were on youtube... but noooooo)
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
As for what Carroll did for Chris Bowman...I seem to remember that he was one of Bowman's first coaches, probably his first coach as a senior skater. Chris was one of the heartbreak skaters, like Bobek and Harding, loaded with natural talent and with no stability at all. Addiction was just one part of his shortcomings. And even so, he won a world bronze. So Carroll did impart a certain amount to him, after all.

Bowman also won a World Silver in 1989, as well as his come from behind bronze in 1990.

However, it is hard to forgive Frank for having Chris skate to Indian Love Call, with every stereotypical fake Indian move in the book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf_N...A0499FF8&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=36
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
What did Frank do with Chris Bowman ? Thats right-- nothin !!!
Frank was Bowman's coach for 18 years, taught him all his jumps and elegant line. Bowman won Nationals and World Juniors (1983). two national titles
(1989, 1992) and two World titles (silver 1989 and bronze 1990). Bowman had a weight problem in his teens. (His mom, Joyce, is a wonderful cook.) Bowman hated the daily weigh-ins and keeping his weight down was one reason he began taking drugs. A small cameo part in the movie The Lost Boys put him in contact with other Hollywood teens with drug problems. Eventually, he couldn't control the addiction and Frank simply couldn't work with him anymore. Frank said at the time that "You can't train someone who's untrainable or coach someone who's uncoachable."
It really is a shame as Bowman had great charisma and great talent.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Bowman: 1990 Worlds

"The last skater was Bowman, mired in fifth place after the compulsories and the short program. His Latin-style adlibbed long program can only be described as vintage Bowman. Preening before the judges, cha-cha-cha-ing to the audience, mugging for the cameras, he seemed to have skated straight off a Copacabana set where he had been cast in the role of a gigolo-waiter. Things were going fairly well until, about 30 seconds into his program, he stumbled on his triple Axel-double loop combination, whereupon the side of Bowman that he calls "Hans Brinker from hell" took over. Deciding that "Gee, this is a really good program, but I'm skating against Viktor and Kurt," Bowman chucked his prepared routine and began "jumping my brains out" to try to rack up a few more technical points.

The brains were the first to go. Next he ditched his triple loop and replaced it with a triple Axel. Unfortunately, the triple Axel has never been a Bowman forte, and he singled it. Then he inserted a triple loop in a spot where he had planned only footwork. All the attendant little touches, the arm movements and choreography that are months in the perfecting, were altered, replaced by "interesting movements," as Bowman would later describe them. Bowman was skating by the seat of his pants. Carroll watched, seething. "It is always interesting to see a student's new program unveiled at the world championships," he said dryly upon the event's conclusion. "I was in total shock. Yes, I am angry. I ask myself, Why do I have the only maniac in figure skating?"


From the same event:

"Certainly it was too big to enjoy, and Trenary, who is pretty tightly strung to begin with, lay in bed the night before her short program thinking all sorts of bad thoughts. Unfortunately, that was also the night that the men's portion of the competition concluded, and skating officials had put Bowman in the hotel room next to Trenary. All night long people kept hammering on Bowman's door, trying to find the party that perpetually surrounds skating's irrepressible bad boy. Bowman, in fact, did not get back to his room until 6 a.m. He had been out all night with the Russians. But the damage was done. Trenary woke up in tears, having got three hours of sleep."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1142542/index.htm
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Bowman: 1990 Worlds

SI report accurate as what happened in Halifax during the competition, but Bowman wowed everyone (execept Browning, of course) with his Rolling Stones medley routine. Frank finally split with Bowman at the 1990 Goodwill Games in Seattle.

From the same event:

"Certainly it was too big to enjoy, and Trenary, who is pretty tightly strung to begin with, lay in bed the night before her short program thinking all sorts of bad thoughts. Unfortunately, that was also the night that the men's portion of the competition concluded, and skating officials had put Bowman in the hotel room next to Trenary. All night long people kept hammering on Bowman's door, trying to find the party that perpetually surrounds skating's irrepressible bad boy. Bowman, in fact, did not get back to his room until 6 a.m. He had been out all night with the Russians. But the damage was done. Trenary woke up in tears, having got three hours of sleep."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1142542/index.htm

Not sure about this strange statement. If Bowman was out partying with the Russians until 6 a.m. he couldn't have been partying in his room all night keeping Trenary awake. However, USFS did lose Bowman one night and one day in Calgary at the 1988 Olympic Winter Games after the men's final.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Not sure about this strange statement. If Bowman was out partying with the Russians until 6 a.m. he couldn't have been partying in his room all night keeping Trenary awake. However, USFS did lose Bowman one night and one day in Calgary at the 1988 Olympic Winter Games after the men's final.

I think it implies that people were in and out of the room all night, knocking on the door and having a "party."

If I am not mistaken I recall similar comments from Paul Wylie from a different competition.
Maybe someone else knows that story.........
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
If Frank Carroll had done nothing else in his career than improve Tim Goebel's posture, the skating world should be grateful. :) However, I think Lori Nichol deserves the most credit for trying to get Goebel to improve his presentation. IIRC he started working with Nichol a full year before he went to Carroll for coaching. Tim will never be an artist, but there was a thousand percent improvement in that year, even before Carroll came on board (if i am remembering the sequence of events correctly).

I don't think it is correct to say that Goebel came to Carroll in order to get a reputation for being some kind of artist. But yes, to improve his second mark, absolutely. And it worked, although he never became anything like a silk purse.

:yes:

And Mirai, too. Frank is working on turning her into a mature skater who doesn't give up on the performance even while concentrating on landing jumps. No shame in that.

And he did encourage her to go for a 3-3 at worlds. So I don't see him as holding her back technically.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Not sure about this strange statement. If Bowman was out partying with the Russians until 6 a.m. he couldn't have been partying in his room all night keeping Trenary awake. However, USFS did lose Bowman one night and one day in Calgary at the 1988 Olympic Winter Games after the men's final.

They meant that Bowman was out partying with the Russians but OTHER PEOPLE were coming by banging on the door looking for a party which kept Trenary awake.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
No skater that I am aware of has done it alone. Maybe Curry.

Curry came to Colorado to work with one of the masters of the mid 70's - the great Carlo Fassi who got Curry to jump and spin in the same direction. Curry WAS spinning CW and Fassi made him change that which straightened out the cleanliness and neatness of Curry's 3T.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
according to Chris's wiki, Frank coached him for 18 years until 1990 - so he would've started training with him in 1972 when Chris was 5. Toller Cranston and then John Nicks continued as his next coaches.
 
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