U.S. Ladies Prediction & Speculation Thread | Page 38 | Golden Skate

U.S. Ladies Prediction & Speculation Thread

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I watched Agnes Z. last week sometime because of all the talk on here, and though I love her big beautiful jumps (looks like she can easily fit in a 3A there!) I wasn't really impressed, nor unimpressed mind you, just rather neutral except for the gorgeous jumps.

I really don't have a favorite US female skater now, rather I pretty much like them all, truthfully. Lol, though I admit I was totally blown away by Rachael Flatt the first time I saw her skate at Nationals back in 2006 or 2007? She had such sass, style, a gorgeous 3/3, and that video of her as a 3 yr. old stole my heart. :) But since then there have been so many changes in COP, et al, that I kinda lost touch there for a while. Also, Rach has grown up, gotten a bit more serious with her skating (not quite that effervescent young thing when she first hit seniors), and her spins haven't quite measured up due to her back problems, totally understandable, but it's costing her imho. I wish her the best, and it's a joy to watch her skate. :)^)

I wish everybody else the best as well ~ Mirai, Ashley, Agnes, Christina, whomever else ~ good luck! :)

OFF-TOPIC: the talk about curves/puberty/et al made me think about what Michelle Kwan said (thanks for the info. btw), I too would feel totally uncomfortable, be I a skater or just a normal teenage girl, if grown adults, as well as teens, were talking about my figure, especially men old enough to be my father or grandfather. I know it's natural, but still. And I'm a bit guilty of it as well when it comes to the guys, remarking on their splendid physiques. Still, it's a part of sport, the good, as well as the bad, especially when it crosses the fine line to inappropriate.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
If people don't want their bodies to be critiqued, then they should not have become involved in the sport of figure skating where girls skate in front of large audiences in skimpy little outfits and tights and guys in form fitting suits and unitards. I'm just saying. The same thing goes for ballet, gymnastics, swimming, or any sport requiring the athlete to wear little or form fitting clothing; they pretty much signed up to have their bodies critiqued when they became serious about one of the above activities. If these skaters have such an issue with people critiquing their bodies, then they should have gone into hockey, where they can hide their bodies behind all that padding, instead. I agree that referring to a skater as "fat" or "heavy" is out of line, especially where the vast majority are extremely fit, but no posters on this thread appear to be doing so. JMHO on the topic.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If people don't want their bodies to be critiqued, then they should not have become involved in the sport of figure skating where girls skate in front of large audiences in skimpy little outfits and tights and guys in form fitting suits and unitards. I'm just saying. The same thing goes for ballet, gymnastics, swimming, or any sport requiring the athlete to wear little or form fitting clothing; they pretty much signed up to have their bodies critiqued when they became serious about one of the above activities. If these skaters have such an issue with people critiquing their bodies, then they should have gone into hockey, where they can hide their bodies behind all that padding, instead. I agree that referring to a skater as "fat" or "heavy" is out of line, especially where the vast majority are extremely fit, but no posters on this thread appear to be doing so. JMHO on the topic.

You know...people have different body types. Not everybody can be Sasha Cohen :rolleye:
 

SerpentineSteps

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
If people don't want their bodies to be critiqued, then they should not have become involved in the sport of figure skating where girls skate in front of large audiences in skimpy little outfits and tights and guys in form fitting suits and unitards. I'm just saying. The same thing goes for ballet, gymnastics, swimming, or any sport requiring the athlete to wear little or form fitting clothing; they pretty much signed up to have their bodies critiqued when they became serious about one of the above activities. If these skaters have such an issue with people critiquing their bodies, then they should have gone into hockey, where they can hide their bodies behind all that padding, instead. I agree that referring to a skater as "fat" or "heavy" is out of line, especially where the vast majority are extremely fit, but no posters on this thread appear to be doing so. JMHO on the topic.

Ummm... wow. So much wrong with that post. Very much blame-the-rape-victim-for-being-provocatively-dressed.

Yes, unfortunately because we live in a society that LOVES to shoot down anyone that stands out, skaters' parents that are putting their little girls into the sport should be somewhat aware of that (You really don't expect a four-year-old to think about how the audience will perceive their body shape, do you? And if you're arguing that the girls should abandon their talent if they start developing curves, that's absolutely insensitive of you).

That being said, the blame lies on a normalcy-obsessed society, NOT on the skaters that have "abnormal" bodies.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I don't think people consider that aspect of sports or art performance when they become enamored of it at an early age. I don't see why they should. Are we saying that all public performers should accept being thought of as a piece of meat or get out? That doesn't say much for our society.

As for the diversity of skating figures, both male and female, I say vive la difference. We fans may think that we can analyze the heck out of body type in terms of what it will allow people to do on the ice, but people with talent will always surprise us. After all, look at the differences between two of the greatest male skaters, spindly little Scott Hamilton and tall, lanky Robin Cousins. Look at the differences among several of the greatest female jumpers in history, Tonya Harding, Midori Ito, YuNa Kim, and Mao Asada. Biology isn't always destiny.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Ummm... wow. So much wrong with that post. Very much blame-the-rape-victim-for-being-provocatively-dressed.

Yes, unfortunately because we live in a society that LOVES to shoot down anyone that stands out, skaters' parents that are putting their little girls into the sport should be somewhat aware of that (You really don't expect a four-year-old to think about how the audience will perceive their body shape, do you? And if you're arguing that the girls should abandon their talent if they start developing curves, that's absolutely insensitive of you).

That being said, the blame lies on a normalcy-obsessed society, NOT on the skaters that have "abnormal" bodies.

The reality is that modern society is obsessed with body image regardless of what sports or activities people take place in. Celebrities, singers, etc are viewed in terms of their body types all the time. There are magazines everywhere advertising weight loss and full of pictures of airbrushed photos of men and woman who fit the modern definition of being "beautiful". While this concept can contain people of many different shapes and sizes, in general people get the idea that taller and skinner is better, and if you're lucky enough to be tall and thin and still have some curves if your a girl and muscle definition if you're a guy, then that's even better. There are forums like this where posters argue about the height and weight of celebrities all the time. The media is everywhere, you can't really escape it, and everyone has their own opinion of what they consider attractive, fat, cute, etc. That's just life in 2010, there are so many people suffering from obesity and eating disorders but nothing really has yet to change.

Frank Carroll tells his students "You can eat or you can compete" and he's right. Yeah, Yuna Kim eats cereal for dinner every night and that kind of blows but it brought her to the top of the sport and as long as she's not suffering from an eating disorder than I think it just shows her discipline and can be seen as one of the sacrifices she made to be the best.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
That's just life in 2010, there are so many people suffering from obesity and eating disorders but nothing really has yet to change.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually better now than it used to be, given that the issue of eating disorders, etc. is now more public than ever.

Nevertheless, judging by many comments in this thread (and in other threads), we've still a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONGGGGGGGGGGGG way to go.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually better now than it used to be, given that the issue of eating disorders, etc. is now more public than ever.

Nevertheless, judging by many comments in this thread (and in other threads), we've still a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONGGGGGGGGGGGG way to go.

That's pretty sad that it used to be worse than it is now. It really seems like too most people today just don't have a good relationship with food, as people with eating disorders are obsessed with food, most obese people are obsessed with food, most diets promote obsession with food, and gastic bypass and other similar surgeries force recipients to be obsessed with food. It kind of sucks.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It's just a guess on my part, though- I have no statistics to back it up. But I would imagine in the old days this stuff went on, but was swept under the rug whereas nowadays with greater public awareness, there is a bit more scrutiny. Obviously, people still favor stick-figures in skating and that's ingrained in the culture. That's something that's probably not going to change. Hopefully the slights and put-downs toward those NOT the "desired" size disappear, though. Not everyone has the same body type. Not everyone can be thin and healthy at the same time.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
That being said, the blame lies on a normalcy-obsessed society, NOT on the skaters that have "abnormal" bodies.
I would re-phrase that to say "the blame lies on a perfection-obsessed society, NOT on the skaters that have normal bodies." All the ladies mentioned in this thread are well within the range of "normal".

Biology isn't always destiny.
I absolutely agree.

The reality is that modern society is obsessed with body image regardless of what sports or activities people take place in. Celebrities, singers, etc are viewed in terms of their body types all the time. There are magazines everywhere advertising weight loss and full of pictures of airbrushed photos of men and woman who fit the modern definition of being "beautiful". While this concept can contain people of many different shapes and sizes, in general people get the idea that taller and skinner is better, and if you're lucky enough to be tall and thin and still have some curves if your a girl and muscle definition if you're a guy, then that's even better. There are forums like this where posters argue about the height and weight of celebrities all the time. The media is everywhere, you can't really escape it, and everyone has their own opinion of what they consider attractive, fat, cute, etc. That's just life in 2010, there are so many people suffering from obesity and eating disorders but nothing really has yet to change.

Frank Carroll tells his students "You can eat or you can compete" and he's right. Yeah, Yuna Kim eats cereal for dinner every night and that kind of blows but it brought her to the top of the sport and as long as she's not suffering from an eating disorder than I think it just shows her discipline and can be seen as one of the sacrifices she made to be the best.
Sorry, but you're not making much sense to me. It seems you are one of the posters on here who talk about and try to make predictions based on body shapes more than the average skating fan...but in the last few posts you went from blaming certain fans' nitpicking skaters' bodies on the skaters (rather than admonishing the behaviour itself), then you jumped to the topic of eating choices.

First of all, body shapes are not determined solely by diet.

Second, I also do not find it...wise that certain people try to overly scrutinize body types to see what someone might/might not be able to do. Nor do I find it appropriate to talk about how "filled-in" or "curvy" various teenage skaters' bodies are.

Third, it's absolutely not their fault, it's ours, since we can control what we say whereas control over bodily development (curves or no curves) is much more limited; and hopefully they aren't skating because they want to show off their bodies and hopefully we aren't fans because we want to ogle them.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I haven't gotten much sleep this whole week, so i don't think i've been making sense for awhile. my bad. but who knows, maybe in future days we will commonly see ladies figure skaters who are 5'10" or built like Serena Wiliams :)
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
For a moment I thought I entered Miss Usa thread...

If people don't want their bodies to be critiqued, then they should not have become involved in the sport of figure skating where girls skate in front of large audiences in skimpy little outfits and tights and guys in form fitting suits and unitards. I'm just saying. The same thing goes for ballet, gymnastics, swimming, or any sport requiring the athlete to wear little or form fitting clothing; they pretty much signed up to have their bodies critiqued when they became serious about one of the above activities..

You left beach - volley out..You think they have the option of competing with their pyjamas if they wanted to? Besides parents, coaches and their own insecurities they have also to think about what an audience would think of their bodies when they will go in through puberty? That looks wrong to me.
Whatever the comments, the athletes are not fat or even close to it, you cant be training at these sports with extra fat, so what people usually do is criticize their body type which is not in their hands to control. I dont think Flatt eats more than Yuna, or Sasha less than Elena G. (who by the way is very little framed live and looks gorgeous). Sasha maybe has the ideal type for the petite dresses on ice but off ice she is not too small, we dont need all girls to be of this size.
 

Ginask8s

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Skating is a bit of a beauty contest lol . But seriously, thank goodness skating is not like ballet, where you have to have a certain body type , feet and legs to be professional. We have seen all shapes over the recent decades be champions!
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Skating is a bit of a beauty contest lol . But seriously, thank goodness skating is not like ballet, where you have to have a certain body type , feet and legs to be professional. We have seen all shapes over the recent decades be champions!

Very good point, although ballet companies these days are changing too, at least the more contemporary companies. Europeans seems to be the one isu competition where beauty seems to play the biggest factor, but maybe that's just because usually most of the ladies there don't skate up to their potential at that competition.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Skating is a bit of a beauty contest lol . But seriously, thank goodness skating is not like ballet, where you have to have a certain body type , feet and legs to be professional. We have seen all shapes over the recent decades be champions!

I agree. The thing with activities like dance and skating is that the most important thing is to have an athletic body. If you are not a natural athlete, no juice no matter how skinny you are.
But in ballet - you also have to have the exact right build. I remember in my ballet school there was an adult student who was so wide she almost looked obese. And she was great! Her jetes were so high and in perfect splits. I'm not kidding. So body type doesn't necessarily mean you can't perform difficult moves in ballet. But to aspire to be join a professional ballet company, you also have to have perfect lines and that is where body type comes in. I remember this other girl who was an amazing ballerina at my school. She could do fouette turns forever ... but she was about 4 feet nine inches and she was not growing anymore. So, forget it, at least for the very top ballet companies.

One of the things that I really like about figure skating it that it accomodates various body types. Perhaps less and less these days with skaters being pressured to bend like preztles. But Joannie Rochette and Mao Asada have very different builds - they both look terrific and it doesn't matter that they are not clones.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I'm going to start this thread up again to say congrats to Christina for getting in the JGPF with a second medal at JGP Germany today! I am impressed that she still got 155+ WITH TWO FALLS. (one in the SP (no combo!) and one in the FP). The international judges are really digging Gao.

Also really cool that the American girls have swept the silver medals so far. (Of course, I'd would have like one of them to WIN, but this is the next best thing.)'

ETA: Put in the overall score to reflect apples to apples.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I'm going to start this thread up again to say congrats to Christina for getting in the JGPF with a second medal at JGP Germany today! I am impressed that she still got 108+ WITH TWO FALLS. (one in the SP (no combo!) and one in the FP). The international judges are really digging Gao.

Also really cool that the American girls have swept the silver medals so far. (Of course, I'd would have like one of them to WIN, but this is the next best thing.)

I am also really impressed with Gao this season, it seems like she has really worked on her presentation and maturity and it shows. The US ladies will likely have a hard time winning silver in the Czech Republic next week as it is a loaded field, but who knows, it still could happen. I really hope to see Gao compete at some senior international events this season, be it 4CC or Worlds or both, as I'm curious to see how she would place among the senior ladies. Yasmin Siraj also put up a big score in Sheffield last week and is poised to make a splash at nationals this season and maybe even medal. Nice to see so much fresh new talent :)!
 
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