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feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
2 girls from USA, 2 from Russia and 2 from Japan.

Of course, Shelepen is the top favourit here ... but we have to wait with US girls will skate in the end.
The Japanese girls can be strong, but only can. So we have to look, because these are juniors, and you never now what will happen. The second Russian girl AFANASYEVA is also a real talented skater and can do really fine!

Maybe it works in Zijun's favor that she's in the last JGP. USFSA has already assigned and re-assigned their top juniors: Yasmin Siraj, Kristiene Gong, and Christina Gao. The remaining entrants, whether re-assignments for girls who've already competed, or new assignments, will likely not be as strong in that last JGP. Something similar with the Russians. Liza Tuktamisheva and Adelina Sotnikova have already been re-assigned to earlier JGP's. Polina Shelepen is obviously Zijun's strongest competitor in JGP Czech. Russia of course has a ton of other really talented skaters, but all of them are kinda unknowns at this point, both in terms of their int'l reputation/experience, and also their own consistency.
Also, maybe with a bronze under her belt, Zijun would be given (justly) more generous PCS at her next JGP.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I don't know what justified Christina's much higher PCS than Zijun's. I didn't really see it in their skating. I would've given them comparable PCS, maybe even a slight edge to Zijun. Zijun had better posture, line, flow, and flexibility (and better spins, too). The placements are fine, especially considering their short programs, but I have to disagree with the huge gap in their FS scores. Hopefully, if Zijun keeps on skating clean programs and placing well in her competitions, then she'll build her own reputation in judges' minds. :rock:

I think Christina's programs are probably more CoP friendly than Zijun's considering Wilson is her choreographer. Further, I think had Christina not been totally clean in the FS her PCS would have been lower, and as for Zijun though she is more graceful than Christina her skating and overall appearance on the ice is more juniorish, her programs have less in terms of choreo and transitions. The 47+ for PCS Zijun got in the FS is pretty high for a junior if you look at the scores from last season, and where she is so young, it's that much more impressive.
 

feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
I think Christina's programs are probably more CoP friendly than Zijun's considering Wilson is her choreographer. Further, I think had Christina not been totally clean in the FS her PCS would have been lower, and as for Zijun though she is more graceful than Christina her skating and overall appearance on the ice is more juniorish, her programs have less in terms of choreo and transitions. The 47+ for PCS Zijun got in the FS is pretty high for a junior if you look at the scores from last season, and where she is so young, it's that much more impressive.

I agree that Zijun's choreo and intrepretation look junior-ish, but I have to say that for a 16-yr-old, Christina's programs also looked rather junior-ish. David Wilson is *really* good at putting together CoP-friendly programs, though. So maybe it's just a matter of her putting down more mileage on this program.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I think that Christina's long program highlights a lot of her weakness, particularly when it comes down to posture and line. Especially during the step sequence. I don't know what words to use, but it seems her upper body is rather floppy and awkward and she doesn't know what to do with her arms and hands, and it all comes across as flailing. I don't think she's particularly musical either - the choreography is not bad (but not good either) and she does what she's supposed to do, but without any feeling or meaning whatsoever. Which isn't to say she hasn't improved (she has), but she really, really could use ballet lessons.

I think that it was highlighted even more so since Sotnikova skated right after her, and doesn't have these weakness. Adelina has better skating skills and flow as well.

I do think Gao's PCS were high for what she did, and I would have them closer to Li's than to Sotnikova's. However, the marks were high overall in this competition.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I think that Christina's long program highlights a lot of her weakness, particularly when it comes down to posture and line. Especially during the step sequence. I don't know what words to use, but it seems her upper body is rather floppy and awkward and she doesn't know what to do with her arms and hands, and it all comes across as flailing. I don't think she's particularly musical either - the choreography is not bad (but not good either) and she does what she's supposed to do, but without any feeling or meaning whatsoever. Which isn't to say she hasn't improved (she has), but she really, really could use ballet lessons.

I think that it was highlighted even more so since Sotnikova skated right after her, and doesn't have these weakness. Adelina has better skating skills and flow as well.

I do think Gao's PCS were high for what she did, and I would have them closer to Li's than to Sotnikova's. However, the marks were high overall in this competition.

Well, Christina's TES was higher than Zijun, and TES is pretty cut and dry, so that accounts for some of her score being higher.
 

feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
The difference in PCS was like 4 points, so not a huge difference.

Well, I don't know what you consider "huge." There was only 1 point separating Gao & Sotnikova, which makes 4 between Gao and Li seem like a lot to me. I'd have something 3.5 between Gao and Sotnikova, and 1.5 between Li and Gao. That'd fairer, I think, for Sotnikova, who was really stunning in her presentation.

About the TES score, I'm surprised that Li's last 3S was downgraded. I'd rather have downgraded her last 3F. It looked double-footed. The 3S actually looked a bit over-rotated. But then the feed was so bad...
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Well, I don't know what you consider "huge." There was only 1 point separating Gao & Sotnikova, which makes 4 between Gao and Li seem like a lot to me. I'd have something 3.5 between Gao and Sotnikova, and 1.5 between Li and Gao. That'd fairer, I think, for Sotnikova, who was really stunning in her presentation.

I totally agree with the above.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I don't know what justified Christina's much higher PCS than Zijun's.

Zijun Li did crossovers between almost all her elements. There was very little transitional turns when creating speed/change of direction (f/b or cw/ccw) such as Adelina or Christina had.
 

feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Zijun Li did crossovers between almost all her elements. There was very little transitional turns when creating speed/change of direction (f/b or cw/ccw) such as Adelina or Christina had.

I just have to respectfully disagree!

I just re-watched Zijun and Christina's LP's after your comment. I don't see any two elements from Zijun that are not separated by some transitions. If you see such an example (not including just before and after the step sequence, for obvious reasons), please point it out. Also, she had interesting variations, with transitions, into almost all her jumps, not just "crossovers" as you put it. The only exception is maybe the last 3S.

In contrast, Christina did do a lot of crossovers between her elements, especially into jumps. She had very standard entrances into her 3F and 3Z combos, and then later on into her 2A, and 3T.

Maybe you just didn't notice Zijun's transitions because she had such flow and smoothness and sense of ease about her that you missed them.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
feraina, I skate myself and tend to notice transitions very closely for ideas for my own programs from levels above my own, I know what I saw on grainy video.
 

Artistry

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I totally agree with the above.

Totally agree. PCS too high for Gao. Why? Not sure, but I hope we will start seeing a change in PCS marks as the years progress. This is the weakest part of the system, and it makes it really much less exciting for spectators to watch when actual presentation differences of the skaters (how they did artistically in each particular program on a given night) are not reflected mathematically in the same proportion, relative to others on that night. Bummer.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Totally agree. PCS too high for Gao. Why? Not sure, but I hope we will start seeing a change in PCS marks as the years progress. This is the weakest part of the system, and it makes it really much less exciting for spectators to watch when actual presentation differences of the skaters (how they did artistically in each particular program on a given night) are not reflected mathematically in the same proportion, relative to others on that night. Bummer.

PCS tend to be based somewhat on reputation. Where Christina is the reigning JGPF bronze medalist, she has a reputation with the judges as being a good/top skater. Zijun on the other hand was making her JGP debut at this event and therefore had no international reputation at all. I know Adelina was making her JGP debut here as well, but she won Russian Senior (and Junior) Nationals as a 12 year old and her skating is not juniorish in the slightest, which can't be said for Zijun. Also Zijun got PCS of 48+ for the FS last week in Ostrava, which was the 2nd highest PCS of all the ladies in that segment, suggesting that her strong performance in Graz helped boost her reputation and thus PCS in Ostrava. I'm not saying reputation scoring is right, just that it usually happens.
 

ordinary person

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
After comparing Adelina and Christina's lp,coming from someone who prefers Adelina much more than Christina,i have to say they both had equal amount jumps,but Adelina had a 2A and then a slip on the triple touching the floor,then her last two jumps were a 2A whereas Christina skated clean even if it wasn't great.
Basically Adelina was overscored cause she did have excellent jumps but nothing too special unlike her sp.
In overall Christina was slightly better,sad she didn't win.
 
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