Plushenko writes letter to ISU | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Plushenko writes letter to ISU

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
yeah lol indeed, i m not native english, but i knew the procedure as he says it and i had written that he cant do it by himself as a skater but only through his federation which is the body to contact with ISU, of course he needs to write them, what you had written back then was that even with a hope that his federation help him maybe ISU would not aproove, this is what my quote was about then, but since you have such good memory you know that already.:)

My original reply was something like this: "Even if Plushenko hopes to reinstate with the help of his federation, that still means that he will need the approval from ISU."

You insisted that he does not need "the help" of his federation, as far as I understood. And I´m far from being a native in English, LOL.
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
all I had meant is that RF is not in charge to provide officially any help, all they can do is forward the papers of his application as it is supposed to be done and the body to take any decision is only ISU and none else. Really, i feel like I m writing tomato and people read potato.:rolleye:
 
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sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
AFAIK, Plushy is presently suspended and banned from appearing at all ISU sanctioned events.
I wrote this somewhere (maybe as comments to Tony's blog) but it is VERY ambiguous.
Literally, losing eligibility means banned from participating in any ISU activities, and ISU sanctioned events (shows included) are not ISU events. So whether or not ISU sanctioned competitions are ISU activities is very ambiguous.
Logically it's very clear that Plush can participate in Russian Nationals from ISU point of view.
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
all I had meant is that RF is not in charge to provide officially any help, all they can do is forward the papers of his application as it is supposed to be done and the body to take any decision is only ISU and none else. Really, i feel like I m writing tomato and people read potato.:rolleye:

I think this is what seniorita is trying to say::cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoUSrtw6gJs


Fred and Ginger expressed it this way - check out the skates :biggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dskTypuEXoM&feature=related

If ant was around he would say it this way: ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcHKm0cm-jI&feature=related :rofl:
 
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sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
...Really, i feel like I m writing tomato and people read potato.:rolleye:
:laugh:
No at least I read tomato all right.

As I see, you are basically saying that RF doesn't have any authority to reinstain Plush's eligibility and can only pass on the beaurocratic papers, while Jaana is saying that Plush himself can't contact ISU by the ISU's regulations and that it's only the RF who can do so.
So RF helps the outer potato but can't help the tomato essence inside the potato.
Am I wrong?
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
So RF helps the outer potato but can't help the tomato essence inside the potato.
Lol:laugh:, it took me some minutes to get this, but yes this is what ISU rules say! :D
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ Wait a minute, are you sure?

I thought the rules said:

(1) Only the ISU can grant reinstatement; and

(2) Only the Russian Federation can request that their skater be reinstated.

In other words, Plushenko has no status to make any requests to the ISU. Only the Russian Federation (a member of the ISU, which Plushenko is not) can initiate this petition.

Is this right?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The part that I am most curious about is this. Can the ISU put pressure of some sort on the Japanese Federation to "disinvite" Plushenko if Plushenko doesn't make some nice noises? Can the ISU make muttered threats against the eligible skaters who are signed to participate in the Japan Open, along the lines that they will be in the doghouse, too, if they participate in an event alongside an official black sheep?
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
The part that I am most curious about is this. Can the ISU put pressure of some sort on the Japanese Federation to "disinvite" Plushenko if Plushenko doesn't make some nice noises? Can the ISU make muttered threats against the eligible skaters who are signed to participate in the Japan Open, along the lines that they will be in the doghouse, too, if they participate in an event alongside an official black sheep?

I have been wondering about this since I read that a suspended Plushy was going to skate at the Japan Open.

Does anyone realize that Yuna could be effected by this? She could take her show around the wolrd during the GP season and then skate at Worlds. And others might follow......so I think this "letter business" is something that was worked out by the JSF and Speedy.

I can see Plushy being reinstated if he promises no more "Komrades on Ice" during the ISU season.

Or maybe not.......

There is no longer such a thing as an elite amateur competitive skater since they all get perks from their feds, ISU and anywhere else they can.

What could be at stake is ISU's stranglehold on figure skating. I hope speedy loses......but don't think he will yet.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
^ Wait a minute, are you sure?
I thought the rules said:

(1) Only the ISU can grant reinstatement; and

(2) Only the Russian Federation can request that their skater be reinstated.

In other words, Plushenko has no status to make any requests to the ISU. Only the Russian Federation (a member of the ISU, which Plushenko is not) can initiate this petition.

Is this right?
:unsure: Mathman dont frustrate me as well,:laugh: yes this is exactly what I had said in the previous thread, what i was trying to say as well in this:p Rf must ask for him, not Plushy alone, and then only ISU decides, ok in my own words...:eek:: What ISU can say for the black sheep (lol), he doesnt break any of their rules skating in Japan Open..

Jntfan Weir did pretty much the same, withdrew from worlds (for no health reasons but his personal reasons but ISu doesnt say for which reasons you can withdraw with no consequences) and skated in the same Koi, but fortunately Isu didnt bother..btw Plushy skated 8797896 shows in Japan this summer, from June to September, most if not all as headliner, i m not sure he waited Japan Open to make money.:think:

I dont understand the Yuna part, why she cant skate in shows and then go to worlds? She said she wont go to Gp. Didnt Plushenko do the same after 2006, skated to shows until 2009, Isu didnt say anything, and he had not retired officially. And LAmbiel skated to shows in the season he retired. Maybe if you take the season off , ISU cant say anything, although I havent seen this written, maybe they bothered only by injury withdrawal.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
OK, I think I am zeroing in on this. Plushenko speaks only to Piseev. Piseev speaks only to Cinquanta. And Cinquanta speaks only to God. :)

About Weir and the others who skated in the Russian show, I think the difference is that Weir obtained permission from the USFSA, but Plushenko did not (bother to) get permission from the Russian Federation. So it must be that Piseev was the one who got his nose out of joint by this slight, and decided to teach Plushenko a lesson by siccing Cinquanta on him. (?)

So now a humble Evgeny nust make amends to Piseev, then Piseev will pass the message back up the ladder to Cinquanta that all is well in Plushy-ville after all.. (I love this!)

About Yu-na and others who might want to put on shows during the Grand Prix season, I think Janetfan is right that Cinquanta could raise the threat of not letting them skate at Worlds.

In the seasons when Michelle skipped the Grand Prix but wanted to skate at Worlds she always did the October cheesefest a week before the first GP event in October, then she did the Christmas cheesefest (usually in Detroit :) ) in the week after the Grand Prix Final.
 

nylynnr

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
I think Mathman's analysis of the Plushenko situation is correct; if the Russian Federation "pleads" Evgeni's case to the ISU, under the current rules, he can gain reinstatement. Regarding Kim, my understanding is that since the All that Skate show in LA is about three weeks before the start of the Grand Prix series, it is no problem, since the Korean skating federation is on board. However, I don't think Kim can do any shows from the mid/end of October until after the GPF, without risking her ISU eligibility. Could be wrong but that's my take on the rules.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I think the difference is that Weir obtained permission from the USFSA, but Plushenko did not (bother to) get permission from the Russian Federation. So it must be that Piseev was the one who got his nose out of joint by this slight, and decided to teach Plushenko a lesson by siccing Cinquanta on him. (?)

You know that (according to RF site) Plushenko did bother to take permission first place and 4 nights before the show God said to Ciquanta to say to ISU to say to RF to say to Plush not to skate there and that if Rf didnt take the permission back, they would penalize the federation, right? this is the other side of the ladder;) why they didnt use the elevator is beyond me...:disapp:
 

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
Well the difference between Weir and Plush is that Weir just said "I won't skate Worlds because I don't feel like it" (in priciple, guessing), while Plush said "I won't skate Worlds because doctor says I'm injured".

Plush should have said the same as Johnny if that was his mind, or, if it was that he actually initially wanted to go he could have said more accurately that he won't participate because "Doctor says I can't jump quad right now since quads are much more harmfull to the knee than triples, and without quad it's meanigless to me".

This season Yuna's case is something different, unlike Plush or Weir or Lysacek or Rochette.
She participated and medaled in Worlds and has become a seeded skater, which the ISU deems a skater responsible* for making the GP series worthwhile and prestigeous. (* This I don't necessarily agree, but for the ISU.)
The others I mentioned are not seeded skaters so basically they can do anything in the GP season.

Mathman, I think the Kwan case was not what the ISU wanted things to be, she was handled IMO sort of grudgingly as an exception and let go with the least obligation which is not to disturb the GPs. (So that the "priority" would be superficially kept.)
 
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Joined
Aug 16, 2009
You know that (according to RF site) Plushenko did bother to take permission first place and 4 nights before the show God said to Ciquanta to say to ISU to say to RF to say to Plush not to skate there and that if Rf didnt take the permission back, they would penalize the federation, right? this is the other side of the ladder;) why they didnt use the elevator is beyond me...:disapp:

Seniorita, please don't ever stop posting. You make me smile, and at the end of a long and grueling workday, that's a gift!

I know that Plushenko can be an irritant to the ISU, but he's one of the most exciting skaters around, and unless the ISU has someone as compelling as he waiting in the wings, they should figure out a way to let him back in without losing face or bring chaos to the proceedings. It's not as if fans are beating down the doors of the stadium to come watch skating. We need more fans, and charismatic performers like Plushenko make skating more interesting to people who don't know a triple loop from a loop-de-loop.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
:unsure: Mathman dont frustrate me as well,:laugh: yes this is exactly what I had said in the previous thread, what i was trying to say as well in this:p Rf must ask for him, not Plushy alone, and then only ISU decides, ok in my own words...:eek::

Actually that is what I have been saying all the time: Plushenko needs the help of the RF, LOL.... And Plushenko himself is saying: <“Today I wrote a letter to the figure skating federation chief Alexander Gorshkov,” Plushenko said. “I’m asking the ruling body to contact ISU to help me restore my amateur status..>
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
fine, you say he needs help, I didnt use the word help and said he needs to forward the papers through RF as a procedure, aren't you bored by now? I am.
 

calica

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
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