Men - Short Program | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Men - Short Program

Figure88

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Well, I think everyone will have to skate for it in order to medal tommorrow...1,2,3 are fairly close with Chan in the mix because of his potential to post HUGE scores.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Don't you start in on the silliness too Toni. I meant if we are both in the same location, obviously. :p

Sure, you can ***** about the rules and the GOE and whatever....but no way it's Chan's fault with the mark. And it's the double standard here as well. People only see his bad skate and the high score...and usually overlooked the other quality he has. "I don't care how good he is, he fell" All people only focus on is "he fell". Duh, blame the rule and the GOE and other stuff.

LOL. The problem is not that he fell. The problem is that he fell 3 times and gave a poor performance.

Look at what you just said - "people only see his bad skate and the high score"...so you're implying that a BAD skate which receives a HIGH score is not questionable?

What I meant was let's see if he was scored according to the system and system failed us, or he just got crazy unfair scores on the other non-jumping elements.

You don't need to look at the protocol to know the system failed us. I knew from the very moment the new rules came out that they were bad. It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

You also don't need look at the protocol to see he received unfair scores in non-jump areas either. He received the highest PCS for a Short Program that had 3 falls and was not a good performance.
 
Last edited:

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
I actually thought he recovered from the jumping mistakes pretty well this time and did not give us that poker face, except for his unexpected final fall during the foot-work, which was only a few seconds before the end pose. So, in my opinion, his performance was not sacrificed as badly as could have been.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
he scoring system might be flawed, but I doubt if the judges or the skater himself were at fault with respect to the "over-score".

I too highly doubt if Patrick is at fault with respect to the overscoring, but I certainly think that the judges are at fault to some extent, even if the scoring system is flawed. The judges had no problem (rightfully, and thankfully) sticking Mao Asada down into 8th place when she bombed at NHK, you would think that would be possible here...
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I too highly doubt if Patrick is at fault with respect to the overscoring, but I certainly think that the judges are at fault to some extent, even if the scoring system is flawed. The judges had no problem (rightfully, and thankfully) sticking Mao Asada down into 8th place when she bombed at NHK, you would think that would be possible here...

bingo, which means I'm not so quick to judge the system so much as those playing with it this weekend

and I don't think anyone blames Chan for the score.. just the poor skate.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
I too highly doubt if Patrick is at fault with respect to the overscoring, but I certainly think that the judges are at fault to some extent, even if the scoring system is flawed. The judges had no problem (rightfully, and thankfully) sticking Mao Asada down into 8th place when she bombed at NHK, you would think that would be possible here...

I think the difference here is that Chan rotated the jumps and somehow maintained a decent technicial score under the current system, which Mao failed to do.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I have to see the protocols but i have a feeling Chan did not get -3 GOE for his falls.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
thank you Doris for the details :)
Bravo to Oda, happy to see him back and I liked his program, it looked effortless, I m not sure I got his music but anyway I like watching him skate, and great 3axel!He was so good hs program passed fast!
I m also happy he is first because aside the two quads I dont like Kevin at all, he looks sloppy and like Flatt I think he skates to jazz things since forever, isnt there another music style for them to skate?
I also dont get Rippon althougth all his elements are very good the total sum does nothing for me, I didnt get his choreo for RJ and he reminds me of a male Yuna in presentation, with worse crossovers...But he should have been first or second with that skate.
Chan is really fast and smooth with fantastic edges and a level above the rest in this aspect but the Sp has required elements and he fell on everything there, his spins are not so good to set him apart, and it is the only thing he didnt fall. As he said he is a top level athlete this skate is not in the level of a top athlete, he lost concetration after quad attempt and it showed. He also skates for himself, I dont mean he is introverted like Abott that takes you in with him, or Lambiel, I just dont find any emotion there, it all looks choreographed.

I didnt like Gatchinksi cut of music and the pink gloves, great axel, the program is strange.
I think from all night I liked Javier and Bertsson programs most.
 
Last edited:

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
The judges had no problem (rightfully, and thankfully) sticking Mao Asada down into 8th place when she bombed at NHK, you would think that would be possible here...

That's it exactly. Perfect example! This judging panel is playing a dirty, dirty game. :disapp:
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
But if people think that once a skater make a few mistakes, might as well pack your bag and go home, it's silly.

It's not just "a few mistakes", as in maybe he double-footed a jump and had a turnout on another jump and was shaky on a spin. He made 3 major errors. Historically (and objectively), doing that in the Short Program DOES mean you might as well pack your bag and go home (in terms of realistically having a chance at a medal).
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
and I don't think anyone blames Chan for the score.. just the poor skate.

that's not the impression I got here at all, maybe I am reading something else entirely, the people here are just nasty. Aside the obvious, not a single soul has yet able to articulate their opinion or objection beyond: "there are 3 falls" yet claim to appreciate the overall package. 3 falls = -3 You need a lot more than that to make a case of judges overscoring him, which I don't know if it's the case here or not. Maybe I'll come to that conclusion as well but at this point, I don't have an answer yet.

It reminds me of the same phenomenon when Laura Lepisto won the World Bronze last year - sometimes I really wish some skating fans would shut up and learn a bit more about the sport before complaining about anything and everything aside from jumping counting and stating the obvious.
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
It's not just "a few mistakes", as in maybe he double-footed a jump and had a turnout on another jump and was shaky on a spin. He made 3 major errors. Historically, doing that in the Short Program DOES mean you might as well pack your bag and go home (in terms of realistically having a chance at a medal).

I totally agree. The short program only has, what, three jumps, three spins, and one footwork sequence? The jumps are the most important, he fell on two, and then he fell on the all-important footwork section
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I've seen people say - including myself - that his performance was affected. To me there was a definite disconnect after the second fall. Others have mentioned that he is not as exceptional on spins as others. And that the spins alone are not good enough to make up for the falls.

I do believe you are reading more into it, fans of skaters do that. I have to constantly bite my tongue (so to speak) when I see something negative surrounding one of my favorites (try being a fan of Scott Hamilton's commentary).
 

FTnoona

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
I would think that once someone falls 3 times. He/she would be hit hard in the skating skills because if you fall that much doesn't that mean that there was something wrong with your skating skills that day? Don't the falls also distracted from interpretation and choreo so wouldn't those scores be lower that day too? Yes Chan is a beautiful skater when he is on but the problem with falling 3 times for me is that it distracts from the aesthetic value of the program so I thought the PCS should have been lower. Judges were probably being nice because as someone already said the judges didn't have a problem burying Mao even when she skated at home.
 
Last edited:

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I think the difference here is that Chan rotated the jumps and somehow maintained a decent technicial score under the current system, which Mao failed to do.

Asada just popped her jumps, hence getting almost no base value at all like Oda did at Worlds.

Not attempting a jump is considered much more serious than rotating the jumps yet make mistakes. Base value of 4 toe is much higher than 3 lutz even with mistake under the current system, precisely because people complained last year about skaters not taking enough risk. So now Chen adds 4 toe in his program, the same people now stick it to him b/c he falls...and complained about him being overscored...

I can only say you got what you asked. You want 4 toe in SP? then don't complain if things don't go your way.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I would think that once someone falls 3 times. He/she would be hit hard in the skating skills because if you fall that much doesn't that mean that there was something wrong with your skating skills that day? Don't the falls also distracted from interpretation and choreo so wouldn't those scores be lower that day too? Judges were probably being nice because as someone already said the judges didn't have a problem burying Mao even when she skated at home.

Number of falls is irrelevant with respect to Skating Skills. Someone could fall 6 times yet has amazing SS. But PE should take a hit depending on recovery and etc.
 
Top