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Thread: I used to love the COP

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  1. #1
    On the Ice
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    Jan 2010

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    I used to love the COP

    But now I have to join those who think they should consider going back to the 6.0.

    I am not as obsessed by or knowledgeable about skating as some on this board, so forgive me if I get some dates wrong, etc. But I am a dedicated fan, and I'm getting disgusted.

    When they switched over to the COP, a lot of people complained and still are complaining about the loss of creativity that occurred when points needed to be added up. A lot of people complained that without a top number to aspire to, like the iconic 6.0, casual tv fans would be turned off. Both of these are valid points, and both probably did happen to some extent. But the fairness of the COP seemed to trump those concerns. I remember how exciting it was the first time someone ( Tatiana,the skater from UZB, iirc) came from 7th to win a competition, something that was impossible the old way. I remember how exciting it was that an unknown like Brandon Mroz could beat Johnny and Evan at the US Nationals. And remember when then-unknown Jeremy Abbott won the Grand Prix, or when Emmanuel Sandhu beat Evgeni Plushenko (which I missed because the DOHS was giving some kind of briefing and interrrupted the broadcast ) I liked the fact that the unknown skaters would have a chance they wouldn't before, because the anointed ones wouldn't be held up.

    Well, that was then and this is now. So far, I have seen someone land (what even a non-skater like me knows) is the easiest combination and win the short program. That was annoying enough--obviously Carolina was being held up because she's a former world medalist, and Rachael and the young girl from Japan are not. But it wasn't too egregious. But then I saw Patrick Chan at Skate Canada.

    I've had it. Obviously 7 years into the COP, the judges have found a way to hold people up/keep people down through grade of execution and program components scores. It's as unfair now as it ever was. No, it's probably worse. I remember people complaining about Sarah Hughes, saying her short program was overmarked based on some minor mistake that a layman like myself couldn't see (flutzing? underrotation?) and saying that under the code of points, she would have been behind someone who was more worthy ("woman among girls", I think.)

    No. If they decided they liked her, she could have fallen three times, once not even on a jump, and she'd still be within striking distance of a medal.

    The scoring system is completely messed up. It seems like the stuff the judges are saying is important is invisible to us regular folks. We can't tell if someone flutzes or underrotates, and if they do, it doesn't affect the quality of the overall performance. We can tell if someone is more graceful than another, but deep edges? Can't really see them. But we can tell if someone splats on the ice, and if they win based on doing well on the less-visible stuff, well, the sport's in trouble.

    So bring back 6.0. At least you got those cute flag icons.

  2. #2
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    Dec 2009

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    ITA with everything you said!

  3. #3
    Tripping on the Podium calica's Avatar
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    Jun 2007

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    I do not want to return to the cop but the Isu should consider to eliminate the Skate Canada and take it to another country (korea, Italy.... ).
    It is a shame for the fans and a disrespect of the rest of skaters, to help up the Canadian skaters of such a clear form.

    PS: I know that in all the competitions there is nationalistic slant but in the SC it rubs the ridiculous .

  4. #4
    Bona Fide Member sequinsgalore's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    Country: Denmark

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    I agree that the Canadians (mostly Chan) tend to get very generous scores at Skate Canada. Do anyone know what the skaters and audience thought of the scores? Just curious...

    Luckily Cup of China is the next GP, and here we usually don't see the home faves get unusually high scores.

  5. #5
    Idita-Rock-n-Roll Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Jun 2003
    Country: United States of America

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    6.0 is not coming back. They won't go BACK to anything, which is why they continue to tweak the IJS/COP/current system.

    I may not like Chan's score, but it is one event, and yes it's frustrating that Chan seems to be forgiven for every mistake, but it's not Canada's fault. Skate America sees the American/North American teams get a boost, and it wasn't too long ago that everyone was on the hate Russia campaign. Now that Russian skating is rebuilding its team, we aren't seeing those "evil euro block judging" remarks... now it's the north american block. It's all in a cycle. And it's what the sport was well before the newest judging system came into power.

  6. #6
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Jan 2006

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    6.0 is not coming back. They won't go BACK to anything, which is why they continue to tweak the IJS/COP/current system.

    I may not like Chan's score, but it is one event
    Do you think he will be judged differently as competitions outside of Canada?

  7. #7
    Bona Fide Member
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    Jul 2003

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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    Do you think he will be judged differently as competitions outside of Canada?
    I think he'll be up against stronger fields at more of his competitions outside Canada. But I think he will continue to score very well on PCS regardless of the location of the competition, because he is one of the very best in areas like Skating Skills and Transitions, and that will give him a cushion to be able to afford mistakes on a few elements that skaters who are just good but not that good can't afford.

  8. #8
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Dec 2007

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    I actually really like CoP. I don't think the system is at fault; it's the messy judging and rewarding scores not according to the requirements, but to the skaters' reputation. A judges' favorite will get more GoEs for wobbly jumps than excellent jumpers with steps in and out of their jumps. A skater who is 3rd/4th better not hope for high PCS, because they will not get them.

    Another problem is the fact that thge judges can't seem to grasp the idea of PCS and are just using them as if they would the presentation mark back in 6.0 days, except not always bothering to deduct for falls. Very few judges has the guts to differentiate the components.

    And another "problem" is the fact that the fans just can't be satisfied. After the Olympics 2006 there was this big outrage that Plushenko won with his empty programs and Jeff kept falling on quads and yet getting nice points for the attempt and "freeing" a slot for one more triple. At the same time, some skaters (Baboo) felt that _successful_ quads aren't worth enough. To keep both sides satifsied, the base value of 3A and quads was raised, but the failed attempts were to be penalized more. But the penalty for failed/underrotated jumps became so harsh that the skaters were afraid to attempt them at all (and those who did were often at disadvantage in comparison to skaters who went for easier jumps, but skated clean), and again, the system was adjusted... And we are back to Torino.

    Same goes with spins. I remember a LOT of fans saying that CoP killed the spins, because it forced the skaters to do a lot of unattractive positions instead of holding one for many revolutions, which looks much more pleasant. So the system was adjusted so now the levels can be gained by holding the position for more than 8 revolutions and accelerating, while repeating the same position in different spins is discouraged. And I already read a few opinions that now the spins are boring, and it was better when the skaters did many positions in one spin. ^^'

    The fans, they will never be satisfied.

    Quote Originally Posted by sequinsgalore View Post
    Do anyone know what the skaters and audience thought of the scores? Just curious...
    The only report I've seen (from BoI):

    Oda was awesome to watch. I never liked him before, but he has amazing skating skills and enormous height on his jumps. I think he's not outwardly expressive, but the quality of his skating is impeccable. He definitly should have beaten P-chan. I think Rippon was fairly marked although some people think he should have won the event. Although he is very artistic and has very clean jumps and edges, he comes off as less polished than Chan or Oda.

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