Men - Short Program | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Men - Short Program

wxyz1234533

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
81.96
Hmmm.

Well, well, well...what a surprise. I wonder how much this program will score if skated clean.

That was what I always thought about Jeff Buttle.
How much his program would score if he skated clean.
and it turned out he was a world champion when he skated both programs clean.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
His PCS was too low I think; that was a real fun program!

Perhaps Fernandez suffers from an unfavourable comparison to Daisuke Takahashi's SP, which uses the same music (especially since Daisuke arguably has the upper hand in IN, CH and PE at least)....
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
I do not question Chan's TES, but his PCS, especially Performance score. He had a fall, Tomas and Jeremy skated clean and both had gorgeous performances
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Or maybe the Russians have swapped a deal; gold medals for Chan now, gold medals for Gachinski later?

Or maybe, just maybe, all this moaning and groaning about how necessary the quad is has caused the value to be pushed up so high now the guy who does it wins even when his falls on his triple axel? Ooops.

Naah, that suggests they don't mind if Chan doesn't get gold at Sochi. Which they want. Maybe they're satisfied with V/M's dance gold at home and want the Russians to have the same experience in Sochi with B/S, I/K, K/A or the eventual number one and/or best Russian team at the time? Or maybe it's the ladies they want to assure gold - do they even have a gold medal (OGM) winning ladies skater? Doing that at home would be special indeed.
 

ranjake

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
And the basis of your esteem opinion is based on what exactly? Did anyone else land a 4t+3t today?

I know you weren't speaking to me, and I am no expert. I think I am just of the school that, quads are awesome, but triple axels are quite the glorious jump,too- and I think that, for me, Chan's lack of consistency in them makes his programs lack seamlessness, and make it hard for me to justify his scores frequently.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
You've gotta wonder, if he's scored that high everywhere, maybe it's not the every single judge on the planet is wrong but that the rules are condusive to said score. Just a thought.

Or else it's the hometown bonus, Canadian-mafia-led massive corruption that's infiltrated the Russian Federation. <Insert mustache twirling, evil laughter villain here>

Here is another really crazy thought, is it possible he simply outskated everyone else in terms of technical difficulty? 4t+3t would score even higher under 6.0 than it is under CoP.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
81.96
Hmmm.

Well, well, well...what a surprise. I wonder how much this program will score if skated clean.

There is something we are missing here, the judges seem to be over the top with his scores, but they are very consistent in thgeir lovefest. I have to figure out what is exactly they are seeing and we don't?
I need to get to the bottom of this so I feel less embarrassed.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I do not question Chan's TES, but his PCS, especially Performance score. He had a fall, Tomas and Jeremy skated clean and both had gorgeous performances

Don't forget...haven't we skating plebs been told that TR, PE, CH and IN are somehow all tied to SS? ;)
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Chan's combo and 3rd jump were wonderful, but the fall on the 3A???

This is where I have a big problem with taking off only -1.00 for a fall. The fall deduction should be much more severe and particularly in the short program. And no way is Chan's PCS that much better than someone like an Abbott. Overscored, as usual. Chan will win this even if he falls 5 times in the free.

I have no idea if there's a worldwide pro-Chan conspiracy in judging, but I think I'm definitely seeing a herd mentality on the PCS side. Doesn't mean the herd (lemmings?) always get it right.
 

euroskate

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
well - it´s not only the components this time.
he got way the highest TES and at the GOE is mostly no cheating possible. I guess the combo got some big +
looking forward seeing the details - and some vids anyone?
hate that every feed is blocked for me :mad:
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
But then again a fall would kill you under 6.0. I think it's ridiculous how much credit skaters still get for jumps with falls. Yes the axel was rotated. But I for one don't care how many rotations you manage in the air when you don't manage to stay on your feet. But hey. It's just my opinion. Chan had a good program; I don't agree with the score but that program was definitely top 3 material.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
he got way the highest TES and at the GOE is mostly no cheating possible. I guess the combo got some big +
looking forward seeing the details - and some vids anyone?

GOE padding/cheating is definitely possible....I'm not saying that it has happened here, but it is possible. When it comes to GOEs, TES can just be as subjective as PCS.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
When it comes to GOEs, TES can just be as subjective as PCS.

Absolutely!

As for PCS, falls should affect the skating skills score (you clearly don't have control of your edges/the blade when you fall), the transition score (falls interrupt the continuity of a performance), the performance-execution score (you're not maintaining the energy and mood of the performance when you go down), the choreography score (a fall is not a planned part of the choreographer's vision of the program), and the interpretation score, unless you're Valentina Marchei and you time your fall perfectly to the end of the music a la 2007 Worlds SP. ;)
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Did any of the other men in the top 3 fall on their *** today? Nah, didn't think so.

And did any other men, top 3 or otherwise, come anywhere close in the quality of their Step Sequence, also a Required Element? What about the in-betweens? Did you notice many men opted to do a 3Lo instead of the more difficult 3F and Chan's 3F was very well executed, by far the best in the entire competition, as smooth as butter when he landed it. Spins wise, he is also the best of the bunch, hence higher GOE there albeit the advantage on the 3 spins are not overwhelming. Last time I checked, there are 7 elements in the SP and he bested all other men in 6 out of the 7, except the fall on the 3A, which he still fully rotated, which is the key. Now reasonable people can disagree and an argument can be made that his marks could have been slightly lower or that Abbott could have been given 1st place - it's not unreasonable, however what I take issue is your very liberal use of the word "ridiculous" without seemingly putting any real effort to understand or justify your, well, quite outrageous rant.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
That was what I always thought about Jeff Buttle.
How much his program would score if he skated clean.
and it turned out he was a world champion when he skated both programs clean.

Jeffrey Buttle is a sublime skater.
But even he had to skate clean to receive those high scores.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
There is something we are missing here, the judges seem to be over the top with his scores, but they are very consistent in thgeir lovefest. I have to figure out what is exactly they are seeing and we don't?
I need to get to the bottom of this so I feel less embarrassed.

Excuse me, who is the "we" here? Only the Queen of England refers to hersels as we.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
And did any other men, top 3 or otherwise, come anywhere close in the quality of their Step Sequence, also a Required Element? What about the in-betweens? Did you notice many men opted to do a 3Lo instead of the more difficult 3F and Chan's 3F was very well executed, by far the best in the entire competition, as smooth as butter when he landed it. Spins wise, he is also the best of the bunch, hence higher GOE there albeit the advantage on the 3 spins are not overwhelming. Last time I checked, there are 7 elements in the SP and he bested all other men in 6 out of the 7, except the fall on the 3A, which he still fully rotated, which is the key. Now reasonable people can disagree and an argument can be made that his marks could have been slightly lower or that Abbott could have been given 1st place - it's not unreasonable, however what I take issue is your very liberal use of the word "ridiculous" without seemingly putting any real effort to understand or justify your, well, quite outrageous rant.

I realize there's no point in even trying to debate this with you because you are so pro-Chan that you can't even begin to have a non-biased discussion on the matter. Therefore, there's no point in even trying. Good day! :)
 
Top