Canadian Nationals Predictions | Golden Skate

Canadian Nationals Predictions

mariposa

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
And the race is on! I thought I'd start a predictions thread to get everyone talking..Now that Rochette is out of the running, who's the favorite for the top three spots? Let's go people...Will it be Chan,Reynolds, Sawyer? And what about pairs? And dance, now that it's wide open? Nationals might turn out to be a very exciting and unpredictable event..Any thoughts?
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Dance is going to be really interesting. I'm not really up on Canadian dance, so I'll take some uninformed guesses:

Conventional wisdom would say, I think
1. Crone / Poirier- much as I hate to say it, I think it is theirs to lose, despite having an annoying SD that doesn't entirely work. Their FD will pull them through.
2. Weaver / Poje (if W/P beat C/P at the GPF, all bets are off!) Their SD is my preference over C/P, but their FD will lose it for them even in the unlikely event that they won the SD.
3. Paul / Islam -but they have to get a better handle on their SD. They have completely blown it twice. Their FD at Skate Canada was excellent though. Furthermore, Islam's back injury has to have gotten better, the one that caused them to withdraw from CoR.
4. Ralph / Hill- If P/I screw up the SD, they could be overtaken by R/H. Or not. R/H have not generally impressed this year. It didn't help that they finished up last year behind H-M/C at 4CC's.
5 &6. maybe Arnold / Trojek? maybe Harvey / Gagnon?
These two teams are an any given day matchup for me, but they are significantly below 1-4
Any body else that's excellent from Challenge that I missed?
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
I'll put in my predictions.
Men - I like Chan, Reynolds then Sawyer. Must say I loved Nam in junior at the challenge
Women - Phaneuf, Samson, Lacoste in any order, enjoyed Grenier and DeSantis at challenge, could maybe become a factor, long shot. Najarro if she skated clean could come in top 6 or so. Missed the junior women, hope they skated cleaner than the seniors.
Pairs - Towers/Moscovitch are my favorite, sorry missed the juniors at challenge
Dance - Crone/Poirier, Weaver/Poje (not my favorite but will hold their spot), Ralph/Hill, Paul/Islam (hate their short dance but love their freedance) Like Orford/Williams, Hasegawa's, Oliveira/Hockley, Poulin/Servant in juniors in any order, not sold on Beaudrea/Breton yet - his posture bother me.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Dance is going to be really interesting. I'm not really up on Canadian dance, so I'll take some uninformed guesses:

Conventional wisdom would say, I think
1. Crone / Poirier- much as I hate to say it, I think it is theirs to lose, despite having an annoying SD that doesn't entirely work. Their FD will pull them through.
2. Weaver / Poje (if W/P beat C/P at the GPF, all bets are off!) Their SD is my preference over C/P, but their FD will lose it for them even in the unlikely event that they won the SD.
3. Paul / Islam -but they have to get a better handle on their SD. They have completely blown it twice. Their FD at Skate Canada was excellent though. Furthermore, Islam's back injury has to have gotten better, the one that caused them to withdraw from CoR.
4. Ralph / Hill- If P/I screw up the SD, they could be overtaken by R/H. Or not. R/H have not generally impressed this year. It didn't help that they finished up last year behind H-M/C at 4CC's.
5 &6. maybe Arnold / Trojek? maybe Harvey / Gagnon?
These two teams are an any given day matchup for me, but they are significantly below 1-4
Any body else that's excellent from Challenge that I missed?

I think that is just about right. The only thing I'd add is that it could be any one of Ralph/Hill, Arnold/Trojek, and Harvey/Gagnon in positions 4, 5, 6. Top 3 are definitely ahead of the next 3. Then it's a bit of mess. Many of the Junior teams would beat the lower Senior teams, at least the ones I saw at Challenge.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Dance - Crone/Poirier, Weaver/Poje (not my favorite but will hold their spot), Ralph/Hill, Paul/Islam (hate their short dance but love their freedance) Like Orford/Williams, Hasegawa's, Oliveira/Hockley, Poulin/Servant in juniors in any order, not sold on Beaudrea/Breton yet - his posture bother me.

About the Juniors:

Orford/Williams: she's really very good, but he skates like a cowboy. I wasn't a fan of what I saw at Challenge, and I really don't believe they should have won. They have speed and power in spades, but are missing artistry, musicality, and finesse.

Hasegawa's: I really like this team. Their coaches have fixed their horrible posture issues from last year, and they look so much better. I hope they medal somewhere.

Oliveira/Hockley: I think they are suffering from "same old, same old" syndrome. From watching them at Challenge, they have improved and have a better flow this year. But they don't look new and interesting because they skate to the same fluffy, overly cheery music every year. And she needs to get a different dress for the Short Dance. She is a beautiful, vibrant young lady who looks about 30 pounds heavier than she is in that ghastly yellow dress.

Poulin/Servant: I think this team should have won Challenge. They are continuing to improve after having a great year last year. They have a lovely mix of both technique and artistry. I expect they will do well at Nationals.

Beaudry/Breton: I really liked their FD. She looks gorgeous, and he's not that hard on the eyes, either. Their program is well suited to them, and they have made just a ton of improvement over last year. They are clearly a good team.

And let's not forget that there are others that can vie for top 5. I don't think we should use Challenge scores as a marker of potential, since having watched the event, there was clearly something more than a little odd with the calling, especially in the short dance but also in the free dance. Some good teams were buried in the standings. Last year's bronze medalists, perhaps the most notable example, who also had 2 JGP's this year, finished in 15th spot, and barely qualified. I certainly wouldn't under-estimate them.
 

dcr

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I agree with the comment about Carswell and Doleman. I think they warranted a bit better result. They may have had power issues, it was difficult to tell on Skate TV but the Tech did not give them very many level 4's. Maybe the difficulty wasn't there but I certainly enjoyed their programs.

With Western and Eastern Challenge merged as one, I think the Nationals will be a repeat of Challenge only with a few less teams. Not sure if I like that format. I suppose it's all about which teams will show the most improvement between now and Nationals.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
With Western and Eastern Challenge merged as one, I think the Nationals will be a repeat of Challenge only with a few less teams. Not sure if I like that format. I suppose it's all about which teams will show the most improvement between now and Nationals.

Just for fun, I had a look at the Junior results to see if anything would change between the old Western/Eastern and the current system. Interesting. The results, or teams moving to Nationals, would be exactly the same. The Western and Eastern each normally took 8 teams each to Nationals. 16 teams in total. The 16th team last week was Smyl Joly/Behnia. In both old and new system, all 8 Western teams would go through. In Eastern Challenge, probably the same teams would be left behind. The perception in the old system was that somehow Western was super easy, and Eastern was super competitive. Somehow all the better teams were in the East, and not the best teams would make it through to Nationals. This year, there would be no difference between the results, and Western just had 8 strong teams. The impact at Junior would be that Smyl Joly/Behnia would be going to Junior Nationals, and there would be 4 flights at Nationals instead of 3.

Novice is even more interesting. There were 12 teams that would have competed Western, and only 10 that would have competed Eastern. Of the top 16 teams moving to Nationals, 8 would have been Western and 8 would have been Eastern. Again, there would be no difference in the results in old and new system. Except Robitaille/Barthe would be going to Junior Nationals, and there would be 4 flights instead of 3 at Junior Nationals.

So, perhaps the perception that used to be, is no longer relevant. With good training centres in BC and Waterloo, and some in between in Alberta, it balances out Quebec, Scarboro, Barrie and Ottawa. Then the question becomes what is the real benefit of putting the events together? From what I can see, there is a lot of drama and pressure at Challenge for teams to qualify, but it is sort of ant-climatic for Nationals. For Juniors, the push will be to place top 5, and perhaps get an invite to Junior Worlds. But generally the building momentum is really to Challenge, and not to Nationals. Teams will try to improve to finish higher in the standings for the season, but it's not quite the same feel as a long build to Nationals. It will be interesting to see if the rankings change meaningfully at Nationals vs Challenge.
 

npa

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
So, all you know V-M will not skate at Nationals? Will they compete this seaon or in next at all or they said they will go pro?
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
So, all you know V-M will not skate at Nationals? Will they compete this seaon or in next at all or they said they will go pro?

I believe V/M are for sure out for Nationals. However, it is still possible they may go to 4CC and Worlds. Other posts around forums have quoted Shpilband as saying that Tessa is back on the ice for therapy, but not yet for training, but their programs were done before her surgery. Because I love this team so much, I really, really hope that they take the full season off, and then reveal their new program when they are completely healed and fully trained. We'll miss the SD, but I'd just really love to see them get a full season out of what sounds like a really cool free dance. V/M have said on a number of occasions that they will take competitive skating decisions one year at a time, and they don't feel they are done yet. Realistically, Worlds is in London, Ontario in 2013, which is their home-town. I'm banking on them staying until at least 2013, and just maybe the Olympics in 2014.
 

npa

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
I believe V/M are for sure out for Nationals. However, it is still possible they may go to 4CC and Worlds. Other posts around forums have quoted Shpilband as saying that Tessa is back on the ice for therapy, but not yet for training, but their programs were done before her surgery. Because I love this team so much, I really, really hope that they take the full season off, and then reveal their new program when they are completely healed and fully trained. We'll miss the SD, but I'd just really love to see them get a full season out of what sounds like a really cool free dance. V/M have said on a number of occasions that they will take competitive skating decisions one year at a time, and they don't feel they are done yet. Realistically, Worlds is in London, Ontario in 2013, which is their home-town. I'm banking on them staying until at least 2013, and just maybe the Olympics in 2014.

OK< so you didnt have officiall information about withdawall. Thank you!
I dont think they need to retun, if they will miss all this season - C-P will be on podium at this year WCh and what place could V-M take next season? I hope you all will be surprises at Nationals
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I dont think they need to retun, if they will miss all this season - C-P will be on podium at this year WCh and what place could V-M take next season? I hope you all will be surprises at Nationals

It is possible that C/P will be on a podium at Worlds, but it is just as possible, and maybe more so, they aren't. They are still a very young team, and nowhere in the same league as V/M or D/W. Next year is a whole new year. If V/M come back fully recovered, rested, and trained, I don't think there is a team that can touch them, except for maybe D/W. They are special and in a league of their own. The kind of quality, unison, musicality, edges, etc. etc. that is V/M is unique, and once in a generation. Because of their age, I think they would still have much more to explore and grow in the world of ice dance. Ice dance is one of those sports where people improve with age and experience. (ex. D/L, W/L, B/K, D/S, etc. etc.)
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
MEN

1) Chan - no brainer, lol, barring a total and complete meltdown, ie. falling fifteen times.
2) Reynolds - probably. He could lose it though, if his jumps aren't on. Usually that doesn't happen in both the SP AND the LP though, so I think he's pretty safe here.
3) Sawyer - I wish he had a better chance of coming in 2nd, but I think this is where he's going to end up, unless Reynolds skates poorly in both programs and Sawyer goes clean. He needs to go clean with his lower technical content. OTOH, if Sawyer bombs both HIS programs, someone else could take this spot from him (Russell, Ten?)
4) Russell - Last year he didn't beat Shawn even when he was clean and Shawn had mistakes (IIRC). Unless he's had major improvements, I don't think he's going to medal yet. I wonder why Russell didn't get any GP assignments though.
5) Ten - I think he's going to be behind Russell because of the way he skated during the GP season. I think he had one good LP, but the rest was lackluster.

I don't know after this.. I don't know much about the other men except Balde, who could be a factor, and Marc-Andre Craig who seems to have skated less well in recent years.

WOMEN

1) Phaneuf - this isn't a given though. Lacoste could take it from her if she makes too many mistakes.
2) Lacoste - Likely will be here ahead of Samson, but this isn't a given either.
3) Samson - I think she's better than anyone else except for Phaneuf and Lacoste.

I can't say after this. It'll probably be DeSanctis, Grenier, and Charbonneau in some order, but since I'm not too familiar with them and may have forgot about someone important, I won't make any official predictions after #3.

PAIRS

1) Moore-Towers/Moscovitch - This isn't a given either, but they HAVE established themselves as Canada's top pair this fall at least.
2) Lawrence/Swiegers - They skated well this fall and are pretty consistent.
3) Brodeur/Mattatall - This team could also come in 2nd, but with Mylene's frequent falls, I think they might end up behind L&S. However, if they have a clean skate, they skate beautifully and could even come in 1st. I'm just not sure how likely a clean skate is for them.
4) Duhamel/Radford - I've only seen them once this season. They still looked rocky, like they were getting used to the partnership. There's something mismatched about them but maybe it is just the newness and they will look more matched later. I don't think they can challenge for the title here and unless they have made great improvements since I saw them in October, or other teams mess up, I think they will be hard pressed to medal too.

After this, idk.

DANCE

1) Crone/Poirier - I thought this would be a given, but after the SD at the GP Final, it's looking a bit more open. I agree with the poster who said the FD would carry them, though.
2) Weaver/Poje - It'll be close. I think they may lead after the SD and lose it in the FD.
3) Paul/Islam - I think they'll get bronze if the back injury is better. They skated beautifully at Skate Canada.
4) Ralph/Hill - Unfortunately, I don't think they have great programs this season and may not be able to hold off P&I.
5) Arnold/Trojek - I'm putting them here, but I'm unfamiliar with the lower Canadian dance teams so maybe someone else could beat them for this spot. They could also beat Ralph/Hill, I guess. I've only seen A&T once.
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
4) Russell - Last year he didn't beat Shawn even when he was clean and Shawn had mistakes (IIRC). Unless he's had major improvements, I don't think he's going to medal yet. I wonder why Russell didn't get any GP assignments though.

Except for Skate Canada, SC has no control over who gets the senior GP slots. Season best lists and ISU rankings determines who get them.

Most of his international experience that Joey has is at Nebelhorn ( 4 times there ) . Unfortunately he has never finished top 5 there ( hence no ISU ranking points ) and Nebelhorn scores ( or any senior B scores ) are not considered for season best lists. He only has a small number of points from a low placment at last year's 4CC in a depleted field.

Russell was only 59th on the 2009-10 season best list behind Ten who was 48th. So Ten was always ahead of Russell in the pecking order as far as GP assignments go.

Russell did not skate well in Thornhill this summer, his score being lower than Balde's in Quebec summer score. Not good when you consider that was Balde's first competition in over a year. Perhaps all those factors meant that Russell was not going to get Skate Canada unless he did super well at Nebelhorn.
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
blue_idealist

I won't quote your post because it is very well done but some notes.

Pairs: I think Jones/Gaskell will finish 5th at nationals and secure the last national spot.

Ladies: I would include Najarro ( limited in the jump category but consistently gets good PCS and levels on other elements ) in that that group of ladies that could finish 4th. That said I favour Adriana to finish 4th based on the fact that she is simply the most consistent of that group of ladies.

Men: 3rd to fifth places will be a bloodbath. Don't forget Rogozine in that mix. He is very consistent.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:)Can I take this OT for a moment to ask what Balde's injury was ? I know he had a disaster at Challenge, but boy, I'd love to see him bounce back after his year off..even if that mostly comes next year. He's got that inner spark that commands your attention.
 

geoskate

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Some numbers - you can make of them what you will.

Top 12 junior men scores so far this season:
1. Andrei Rogozine 188.60 at JGP Japan - skating senior.
2. Liam Firus 173.71 at Challenge - skating senior.
3. Samuel Morais Best 170.39 at Challenge - skating senior.
4. Nam Nguyen Best 159.11 at BC Sectionals
3rd at Challenge in juniors, score 143.14.
5. Shaquille Davis best 159.03 at Octoberfest
5th at Challenge in juniors with a disastrous long program, score 138.32.
6. Raphael Yacobi-Harris best 149.71 at sectionals- skating senior.
7. Charles Dion Best 149.64 at sectionals - skated senior, did not qualify for nationals
8. Samuel Angers Best 147.52 at Challenge
1st at challenge in juniors (147.52)
9. Garrett Gosselin Best 144.01 at Challenge
2nd at Challenge in juniors (144.01)
10. Jack Kermezian Best 140.61 at sectionals
8th at Challenge in juniors (score 127.93)
11. Peter O'Brien Best 139.69 at Challenge
4th at Challenge in juniors (139.69)
12. Michael Marinaro Best 131.69
6th at Challenge in juniors (131.69)

So four of the top 12 juniors will be skating senior and one did not qualify in senior. About my only comment on the remaining seven in the top 12 is that they are quite inconsistent. I thought Nam Nguyen and Shaquille Davis would be fighting it out for top two, with the remaining skaters going for the bronze. Nam and Shaquille proved at Challenge that they are completely capable of giving away those spots to other people who want them.
 

geoskate

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
For ladies I listed top 16 scores so far this year for junior-eligible skaters:

1. Vanessa Grenier Best 135.84 at Challenge - skating senior.
2. Alexandra Najarro Best 135.15 at Challenge - skating senior.
3. Kate Charbonneau Best 133.56 at Skate Detroit - skating senior.
4. Daniela-Bella Favot Best 130.84 at Middle Atlantic Championships, skated senior but did not qualify for Canadians.
5. Julianna Sagaria Best 123.53 at Challenge
1st at Challenge in junior (123.53)
6. Kaetlyn Osmond Best 122.35 at sectionals
5th at challenge in juniors (109.75)
7. Rika Inoda Best 120.67 at BC Summer Skate, skated senior at Challenge but did not qualify for Canadians.
8. Roxanne Rheault Best 120.59 at Challenge
2nd at Challenge in juniors (120.59)
9. Rylie McCulloch-Casarsa Best 120.42 at Challenge - skating senior.
10. Cassandra McDonnell Best 116.05 at Challenge
3rd at Challenge in juniors (116.05)
11. Morgan Jmaiff Best 115.26 at Challenge
4th at Challenge in juniors (115.26)
12. Jane Gray Best 114.93 at Glencoe Club competion; did not qualify for Canadians.
13. Kitty Qian Best 113.16 at BC Coast Regional Championships.
9th at Challenge in junior (104.44)
14. Jacqueline Leniuk Best 111.13 at Challenge - skating senior
15. Rachel Greben Best 109.88 at Octoberfest
10th at Challenge in junior (104.35)
16. Kelsey Wiebe Best 109.80 at Autumn Leaves
8th at Challenge in juniors (104.69)

So seven of the top 16 were skating senior, of whom 5 qualified. Of the remaining nine skaters in the top 16, seven qualified for Canadians in junior. Rounding out the top ten at Challenge were Alexandra Gagnon (6th, 108.77) and Natasha Purich (7th, 107.99).
 

geoskate

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
For pairs I'll list top 10 scores so far this season:

1. Brittany Jones/Kurtis Gaskell Best 133.24 at Thornhill - skating senior.
2. Taylor Steele/Rob Schultz Best 133.08 at JPG final
Did not skate at Challenge (bye)
3. Natasha Purich/Raymond Schultz Best 131.77 at JGP Czech Republic
Did not skate at Challenge (bye due to JGP Final)
4 . Margaret Purdy/Michael Marinaro Best 128.95 at Challenge - skating senior
5. Kristen Tikel/Ian Beharry Best 125.07 at Challenge
1st at Challenge in junior (125.07)
6. Tara Hancherow/Sebastien Wolfe Best 117.85 at sectionals
3rd at Challenge in junior (115.65)
7. Aveline Pearson/Alexander Sheldrick Best 113.83 at Challenge
4th at Challenge in juniors (113.83)
8. Catherine Balde/Maxime Deschamps Best 110.45 at Challenge
5th at Challenge in juniors (110.45)
9. Alexandra Young/Matthew Young Best 106.84 at Challenge
6th at Challenge in juniors (106.84)
10. Gabriella DeBono/Christopher Sisca Best 105.77 at Challenge
7th at Challenge in junior (105.77)

I'm not sure about the status of the 2nd place finishers at Challenge (Katie Bobak/Matthew Penasse, score 122.88 at Challenge). I thought they were ineligible for junior this year since they didn't get any JGP assignments, but they are competing in junior at Canadians and should be a factor there. Are the requirements for junior skaters different for Canadians than they are for the JGP circuit?
 

geoskate

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Finally, top 12 junior dance scores so far this year:

1. Nicole Orford/Thomas Williams Best 120.59 at Challenge
1st at Challenge (120.59)
2. Laurence Fournier-Beaudry/Yoan Breton Best 119.94 at Challenge
2nd at Challenge (119.94)
3. Andreanne Poulin/Marc-Andre Servant Best 118.00 at JGP Dresden
3rd at Challenge (115.87)
4. Kelly Oliveira/Jordan Hockley Best 117.28 at Octoberfest
5th at Challenge (102.32)
5. Victoria Hasegawa/Connor Hasegawa Best 112.79 at Challenge
4th at Challenge (112.79)
6. Elisabeth Paradis/Francois-Xavier Ouellette Best 107.43 at sectionals
6th at Challenge (102.27)
7. Abby Carswell/Andrew Doleman Best 107.25 at JGP Rumania
15th at Challenge (88.21)
8. Edrea Khong/Edbert Khong Best 106.73 at Thornhill
Not competing at Canadians.
9. Marieve Cyr/Benjamin Brisebois Best 103.46 at sectionals
20th at Challenge, did not qualify for Canadians.
10. Jazz Smyl Joly/Ryan Behnia Best 101.16 at sectionals
16th at Challenge, did not qualify for Canadians.
11. Carolyn MacCuish/Tyler Morris Best 99.67 at Challenge
7th at Challenge (99.67)
12. Sara Aghai/Qwynn Dalmer Best 99.66 at sectionals
9th at Challenge (94.52)

So that may give you some idea who may be competing for the podium positions in juniors. I'll let other people make more specific comments.
 

nadster

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
I'm not sure about the status of the 2nd place finishers at Challenge (Katie Bobak/Matthew Penasse, score 122.88 at Challenge). I thought they were ineligible for junior this year since they didn't get any JGP assignments, but they are competing in junior at Canadians and should be a factor there. Are the requirements for junior skaters different for Canadians than they are for the JGP circuit?

I know that SC allows juniors to do side by side triples in the short program ( ISU does not allow this in international junior competition). Also, unlike the other junior disciplines, SC does not put age limits on competitors in domestic junior pairs competitions.
 
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