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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Well I think they are. I want to see the best skaters be at the at the top rather than the mediocore skaters.

It's a much better reason to root against someone than what country they are from...
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I like them both (Ando and Flatt).

Do we all have to like the same things :think:

I have to wonder if back when Michelle was competing if you did not ever root against Irina.....or Sasha for that matter.

I loved Michelle's skating and always rooted against Irina. With Sasha it was different because I liked her too - but didn't mind if Michelle typically outskated her.

I don't think it is anything new for skating fans to have favorites and to root against perceived rivals - or to be more blunt - skaters that we don't find as interesting or talented.

If I had a dime for evertime I read the words "kitchen break" at GS I would have alot of dimes. :yes:
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Do we all have to like the same things :think:

I have to wonder if back when Michelle was competing if you did not ever root against Irina.....or Sasha for that matter.
Just an observation, root+ against translates into my language as an oxymoron phrase. You can just root for your favorite without rooting against anyone else just because she is a rival.It is energy consuming.
I m not talking about the cases when you dont like a skater, we are humans, cant like all.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Just an observation, root+ against translates into my language as an oxymoron phrase. You can just root for your favorite without rooting against anyone else just because she is a rival.It is energy consuming.
I m not talking about the cases when you dont like a skater, we are humans, cant like all.

In English it is a very common expression to say you "root against" something.....
I am from Philly so I always root against the Mets. I also root against the Dallas Cowgirls, I root against the New York Giants, etc

Back in '98 I rooted so hard against Tara and even remember screaming "fall down you little twerp.":p

I remember rooting against Irina many times because I wanted Michelle or Sasha to win.
Not bragging about it - just being honest.

I feel differently about Irina now and can't imagine how diminished skating would have been without her.

When I was growing up there were two kinds of Americans - those who rooted for the Yankees and those who rooted against them. :cool:

A broadway show "Damn Yankees" was even written about it...........
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
In English it is a very common expression to say you "root against" something.....
I am from Philly so I always root against the Mets. I also root against the Dallas Cowgirls, I root against the New York Giants, etc

Actually that expression and the verb form "to root" is a very American English (or maybe North American English) phrase. I assure you it means something quite different in say, Australian English. Due to my current location and contact with speakers of a variety of versions of English, I tend to avoid using this phrase at all times now including forums with international viewership. I will let you look it up on your own if you are interested. :)

On a more relevant note, I can't recall the last time I ever "rooted against" some skater. I think I might have been a teenager. Usually I only have two competition modes: incredibly positive support for skaters I like, and neutral politeness for skaters I don't seem to warm to. But not really an anti- or negative vibe. Even for skaters I don't normally prefer, I appreciate and applaud a well-skated program.
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
On a more relevant note, I can't recall the last time I ever "rooted against" some skater. I think I might have been a teenager. Usually I only have two competition modes: incredibly positive support for skaters I like, and neutral politeness for skaters I don't seem to warm to. But not really an anti- or negative vibe. Even for skaters I don't normally prefer, I appreciate and applaud a well-skated program.
:thumbsup:

Hint: grow up, BoP.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Actually that expression and the verb form "to root" is a very American English (or maybe North American English) phrase. I assure you it means something quite different in say, Australian English. Due to my current location and contact with speakers of a variety of versions of English, I tend to avoid using this phrase at all times now including forums with international viewership. I will let you look it up on your own if you are interested. :)

On a more relevant note, I can't recall the last time I ever "rooted against" some skater. I think I might have been a teenager. Usually I only have two competition modes: incredibly positive support for skaters I like, and neutral politeness for skaters I don't seem to warm to. But not really an anti- or negative vibe. Even for skaters I don't normally prefer, I appreciate and applaud a well-skated program.

If I ever go to live in Australia then I will be sure to learn to speak proper Aussie talk. :)

I did google "root against" and saw hundreds of examples. Many examples were listed from ESPN articles - for many different sports. I did not see it used in a skating example. :)

I have friends from England and they are Manchester Utd fans. They always root against my favorite team, Arsenal - in the most maniacal way. There can be no doubt about this based on actions of the fans which sadly become violent at times.

At GS I could say without any doubt many members have been know to root against Evan.
This season many have openly rooted against Chan. Some will deny it - but then that makes hundreds of posts very hard to explain. ;)

Watching NHK this season and following comments at GS, I recall several urging Caro on. She was skating last and Rachael had the lead.

A few posted "I hope Rachael does not win." That is called rooting against somebody.
I am not even sure if the posters were big Caro fans or if they just did not want Rachael to win.

At Skate America I was rooting for Kanako. I wanted her to win. I was rooting against Rachael and did not want her to win. It had more to do with US Skating than it did with Rachael.

A victory for Flatt at SA would be enough for her to get ridiculous pcs again at Natls and for the tech panel to ignore her URs again. :scowl:

So yes, I rooted for Kanako to win. Not because I have anything against Rachael on a personal level - but because I do NOT trust US Skating to be fair.

We see skaters that appear to be favored at times and find their scores did not match what they did on the ice.
The favorite can often skate far from their best and still win because the judges hold them up.

This is what I call the "pageant effect" and it is still very strong in skating.
I will always "root against" this type of judging knowing full well it makes skating much less of a sport.
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
There might be also the case that negative posts come cause someone simply doesnt like the skating of Evan or Rachel, not necessarily rooting against them as not to win no matter what happens. We only sacrifice the goats for our favs:)
 

janetfan

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Joined
May 15, 2009
There might be also the case that negative posts come cause someone simply doesnt like the skating of Evan or Rachel, not necessarily rooting against them as not to win no matter what happens. We only sacrifice the goats for our favs:)

I like goat cheese because the goat does not have to be sacrificed in order to make the cheese. :cool: :)

But surely you can recall more than one GS member saying they would leave GS and stop following skating if Evan won the OGM. Where I come from that is "rooting against" a skater.

And yes, there were many negative posts about Plushy from posters who were clearly against him and did not want him to win in Vancouver.

Blades did not attack Rachael on a personal level - he simply pointed out things about her skating he does not like.

He chooses not to root for her because he does not like her skating and wants to see better skaters on the podium. I have no idea if blades "roots against" Rachael - or just thinks many of the other skaters show better qualities. :think:
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Rachael Flatt has been criticized perhaps more than any female skater on GS in the last couple years, except for Mira Leung. That would include many posts by you, janetfan, and by Blades, as you acknowledged in your post above. That's OK. You're entitled to hate her skating, her appearance, and any other thing about her, (other than her character) and criticize those things, and to root against her, if that's your thing. However, to claim that no one allows you to criticize Rachael Flatt on GS is just not factual.

You, OTOH, find Sasha so above criticism that you have to score off people on the subject even when the thread is not about Sasha. And of course, if you want the right to hate everything about Rachael, and to be vocal about it at all times and in all threads, you really have, in the interest of fairness, to allow the same freedom to other posters about your favorites.

In fact, the continuous criticism of Rachael tends to give rise to "the underdog effect" in her favor. The "underdog effect" occurs when someone is so continuously criticized that it seems like severe piling on, if not bashing.

That causes people who get tired of the piling on to say a nice thing every once in a while about the skater, just for variety, even though she/he is not their favorite. And that emboldens people for whom he/she is a favorite to have the guts to brave public criticism for their "bad taste" and to post to that effect.

If this escalates, other people actually become fond of the underdog, and fond of their championing of the underdog, and start searching for positive things to like about the underdog. Some will even become uberfans of the underdog.

I suspect this is not your intention, but it is often how things work.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Rachael Flatt has been criticized perhaps more than any female skater on GS in the last couple years, except for Mira Leung. That would include many posts by you, janetfan, and by Blades, as you acknowledged in your post above. That's OK. You're entitled to hate her skating, her appearance, and any other thing about her, (other than her character) and criticize those things, and to root against her, if that's your thing. However, to claim that no one allows you to criticize Rachael Flatt on GS is just not factual.

You, OTOH, find Sasha so above criticism that you have to score off people on the subject even when the thread is not about Sasha. And of course, if you want the right to hate everything about Rachael, and to be vocal about it at all times and in all threads, you really have, in the interest of fairness, to allow the same freedom to other posters about your favorites.

In fact, the continuous criticism of Rachael tends to give rise to "the underdog effect" in her favor. The "underdog effect" occurs when someone is so continuously criticized that it seems like severe piling on, if not bashing.

That causes people who get tired of the piling on to say a nice thing every once in a while about the skater, just for variety, even though she/he is not their favorite. And that emboldens people for whom he/she is a favorite to have the guts to brave public criticism for their "bad taste" and to post to that effect.

If this escalates, other people actually become fond of the underdog, and fond of their championing of the underdog, and start searching for positive things to like about the underdog. Some will even become uberfans of the underdog.

I suspect this is not your intention, but it is often how things work.

I agree with a few of your thoughts here - except it is far from TRUE that Rachael has ever received as many negative posts as Sasha. That is hilarious :laugh:
That is factually not only wrong but wrong by miles.

There are 2-3 threads now mostly filled with negative remarks about Alissa. Most of those remarks are from Flatt fans.
Go figure :)

I have never commented on Flatt's appearance - and you are WRONG to say that. I think Rachael is cute enough and I have never - and will never comment about her "weight" which I find to be a non-factor. Others have - but you let them slip by because they have been here longer than me.

I may agree with you to an extent but youre post is full of inaccuracies.

My only beef with Flatt is that she received uncalled for scores at Natls last season. Her pcs were inflated and her URs were not called. If I am wrong - then so is every single panel of Intl judges that have scored her in the past two seasons.

Can you make a case for that? I don't think so.......and if I am wrong so are all of the Intl judges. Better for you not to go there as the facts and scores make it clear my point is beyond fair.

This season I wish that Natls will be scored by the way they skate. I seriously doubt that we will see that.

I don't want Rachael gifted - and I don't want her cheated. I get so tired of the "pageant effect" we see at skating "competitions. I say "pageant" because it sounds nicer than saying "dog show" effect.

It is one and the same when reputation and backroom politics determine how skaters will be scored. We saw that last season - and it is clear that Rachael will never, ever approach 200+ points again - and indeed she has never skated well enough in her career to justify such a high score.

We must disagree - but atleast I try to stick with the facts........:yes:
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
^ I think people are made to feel more guilty about criticizing Rachael than others.

People constantly say bad things about Evan. And others defend Evan but it isn't with the same vibe: you are a horrible, mean person person because you have criticized Evan. I'll also point out that people openly attack Evan's character all the time. They also attack Sasha's character. She's been called "stuck up" on this forum. People imply that she's lazy and last year people implied that she was lying about being injured and that her comeback was fake and she never had any intention of going to nationals. For some reason that seemed to be okay with a lot of people around here - even some of the mildest posters didn't seem to mind that Sasha was being slammed in this mean way.

While posters are tough on Rachael's skating, I haven't ever seen her character attacked. Not that it should be - what is there to attack?

Doris - you have every right to defend Rachael. I feel others have every right to defend Sasha and it's not the same thing as thinking someone is above criticism.

Rachael has several arch defenders on this forum. Every time I dare to criticize her skating (and I try to be constructive about it) I fully expect those defenders to come out with their fangs and that's fine. I think it's great that Rachael has ardent defenders - I have no problem with it.

What Blades said about Rachael's skating may have been valid - even if he was a bit tactless about it. And look at the way so many people have immediately rushed to Rachael's defense. That's fine. And it should be fine that it happens for Sasha too.
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Well, if someone accused a skater of a felony, assault, prostitutions, stealing, or a serious character flaw of some sort, like bribing judges or USFS officials, I would expect to see a link demonstrating that fact.

What I was refering to there about character was more our well-known "no unsubstantiated gossip" rule.

But as to USFS liking Rachael, I just received my nationals tickets. There are pictures of Mirai, with a caption reading 2008 US Champion, and Ashley (that one really puzzles me) on them, Caydee & Jeremy, Evan and lots and lots of pictures of Davis and White. If they like her, they are certainly advertising her No pictures of Alissa, Rachael, Jeremy or Evora & Ladwig, that I've found yet.

I found it a bit odd.

Strictly speaking, I'm not a fan of ladies' skating at all and haven't been since about 2002. I only read the ladies threads at all because of moderating stuff. So I didn't read ladies threads between 2002 and 2008, when I first took this moderating gig.
 
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