Flatt should go to school, her peak is already in the past

Violet Bliss · Jan 10, 2011

Continuing the OT.....Would Ian Miller have ever become Captain Canada without Big Ben? Would Eric Lamaze have won the Olympic Gold medal without Hickstead? Would he have first made his mark without Raphael? What about Beezie Madden and Judgment? Sometimes it's a life's quest for a rider to find that perfect equine partner.

Would G/G or S/Z become Olympic Champions without the exact partners? When it comes to athletic partnerships/teams, be they between two humans or inter-species, who can tell how much fate and special bonds determine the ultimate success?

Tonichelle · Jan 11, 2011

SkateFiguring said:
Would G/G or S/Z become Olympic Champions without the exact partners? When it comes to athletic partnerships/teams, be they between two humans or inter-species, who can tell how much fate and special bonds determine the ultimate success?

very true, when we talk of Iditarod champions, we talk about the Musher and one extraoridary dog (normally their lead dog)... Susan Butcher had Granite, Mitch Seavey had Tread... Libby Riddles had Mudshark (believe he was a wheeldog, but for whatever reason he became the star)...

Dallas Seavey was on his way with his lead dog Fridge until we lost that impish dog unexpectedly (I'm not over it yet, and I doubt Dallas and Jen are either).

Olympia · Jan 11, 2011

I love this OT topic! I know so little about the Iditarod (except that I know who Susan Butcher and Libby Riddles are), and it's obviously so dependent on not just the dogs but on the relationship between them and the person. I got to edit an account of the original run to Nome with Balto and Togo and the other dogs. There's something extra-special about sports like sledding (I'm sure I'm giving it the wrong name) and equestrianism that depend on a relationship between humans and some other creature. It's great that we have someone knowledgeable about sled dogs on here!

Back to the original topic, I like the thought that a thread like this will, to double a negative, jinx Rachael's defeat. It would be nice to have a two-time gold medalist for the first time since Michelle.

mskater93 · Jan 11, 2011

More OT:
Similar to equestrian and mushing (? is that the name for it?) in terms of relationship between human and animal is dog agility (my other competitive sport besides skating). I can understand how you have to have a happy kennel for mushing because you have to have a happy team in agility and the handler has to understand what the dog "needs" (some dogs like a close handler, others like a distant handler, some need more visual cues than others and so on) and so it is actually a "team" situation. I watch the Elite handlers in our flavor of trialing (NADAC) and I see how and what to work on!

Back on topic: I suspect one way or another there will be a repeat champion, just not sure which of the last 3 it will be.

Tonichelle · Jan 11, 2011

Olympia said:
It's great that we have someone knowledgeable about sled dogs on here!

Being born and raised in Alaska helps, especially in the 80s and 90s when the Iditarod saw its greatest following. The loss of Susan Butcher from the sport was devastating in so many ways

mskater93 said:
More OT:
Similar to equestrian and mushing (? is that the name for it?)

That is the term

dwiggin3 · Jan 11, 2011

Kwanford Wife said:
.... And one day I will find the clip of the look she shot Sasha when Cohen almost ran into her and I will save it and remember to meditate on it before going into silly corporate conference room warfares. Best look ever!!

Dude, you've gotta find that picture and post it.

dwiggin3 · Jan 11, 2011

Tonichelle said:
Being born and raised in Alaska helps, especially in the 80s and 90s when the Iditarod saw its greatest following. The loss of Susan Butcher from the sport was devastating in so many ways

That is the term

I too was born/raised in AK and can attest to what Tonichelle is saying. Many, many years ago when I was a kid and Susan Butcher was still an up-and-commer in the sport, she and her team of dogs spent the night with my next door neighbors. Now mind you, we lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with homes on/near the zero-lot line so it's not like we had land. She put out straw in little piles around the back yard and each of the dogs just laid down and rested. They were so quiet - you'd never know they were there....untill in the middle of the night, one dog for an unkown reason, decided to "sing" for a bit. The rest of the team joined in and for just a few mininutes in the dark of the night, there was this wonderful chorus of dogs singing. When it stopped, they all went back to bed. I later learned that my neighbor made doggy booties for Susan's kennel (this was before that kind became a business).

Tonichelle · Jan 11, 2011

dwiggin3 said:
I too was born/raised in AK and can attest to what Tonichelle is saying. Many, many years ago when I was a kid and Susan Butcher was still an up-and-commer in the sport, she and her team of dogs spent the night with my next door neighbors. Now mind you, we lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with homes on/near the zero-lot line so it's not like we had land. She put out straw in little piles around the back yard and each of the dogs just laid down and rested. They were so quiet - you'd never know they were there....untill in the middle of the night, one dog for an unkown reason, decided to "sing" for a bit. The rest of the team joined in and for just a few mininutes in the dark of the night, there was this wonderful chorus of dogs singing. When it stopped, they all went back to bed. I later learned that my neighbor made doggy booties for Susan's kennel (this was before that kind became a business).

while there are some businesses doing the making of dog booties, a lot of mushers still have volunteers make them (it's so much cheaper)!

Snoopy · Feb 7, 2011

Logically I would like to agree with ya, but I think the girl's got moxy so, hey, ya never know... I do think she needs to "unfrump" her style a bit because she's still a young woman. Whatever the case, its her life and its up to her to do what she wants.

SeaniBu · Feb 7, 2011

Snoopy said:
Logically I would like to agree with ya, but I think the girl's got moxy so, hey, ya never know... I do think she needs to "unfrump" her style a bit because she's still a young woman. Whatever the case, its her life and its up to her to do what she wants.

^ You're awesome!

To add it looks like a whole new woman out there skating. She was great to watch more now than ever and she is SO cool! She has got more to come i.m.o. and if it wasn't for that back ...

There are many out there with out 3x3 s hanging in there with the sport they love. Follow your heart Rach, I feel like she has made a new beginning.

Olympia · Feb 7, 2011

Tonichelle said:
Being born and raised in Alaska helps, especially in the 80s and 90s when the Iditarod saw its greatest following. The loss of Susan Butcher from the sport was devastating in so many ways

I remember reading of her illness and death. I thought that one of the worst things for her and her family was that they had to go live near a hospital, in a city. An extra layer of suffering for her and her loved ones. At the time it made me think of royalty being forced to live in exile.

Living in a large city and state myself, I had to adjust my mind to realize how familiar Butcher would have been to virtually the entire population of Alaska. Even people who didn't follow her sport would have felt a strong tie to her, perhaps even a personal link.

BackStage Barbie · Feb 7, 2011

I think that Four Continents and Worlds will be a time for Rachael to reexamine her career as a competitive figure skater. It was very mature of her to realize that she needed a new short program to help her scores Internationally and it is great to see that she committed herself to that 100%. I have never though of Rachael as much of an artist but she completely blew me away in her short program. Many people found the footwork to be too wild but I saw it as pure unbridled passion and love for the sport. She really showed her moxie and her fighting spirit. Let's hope that the international judges reward this with the strong PCS that she now deserves. If she can land her jumps with clean edges and full rotation and throw in a triple-triple, she should be able to put together a very strong package. But as we know, international judges will do what they want to do whether it makes sense to the skaters or the fans. I really like Rachael's skating, especially the changes she has made this season, and would love to see her continue in the sport, especially if she improves upon her World placement from last season. Ultimately it will be a decision for Rachael and her coaches if she continues in the sport or not. What I am most excited to hear about, if she does continue to skate while she is in college, is which coach she will train with next year. I wish her the best of luck!

Layfan · Feb 7, 2011

I too am so impressed with the way she took the bull by the horns and decided to change her SP. It speaks volumes about her maturity, dedication and sense of self.

She so deserves to be on that world team and I wish her the best of luck at 4CC and worlds.

pangtongfan · Feb 8, 2011

I personally thought Nagasu deserved 2nd place at Nationals. I would have to break down the protocals again maybe, but both landed 4 triples and Nagasu is by far the better skater. Maybe Nagasu's fall on the spin is what gave Flatt the edge though. I thought the U.S made a mistake though, when two skaters give comparable performances with similar mistakes and content you should always go with the more talented skater, with more future potential, and more potential to contend at that present time. And Nagasu is easily all 3 of those things over Flatt.

Flatt's short program is pretty nice and a big improvement, but her long is blah and will continue to get low PCS from international judges. Maybe she should change the LP too before Worlds if she hopes to have a chance of placing reasonably.

BackStage Barbie · Feb 8, 2011

Rachael actually beat Mirai by more than 7 points in the Free Skate at Nationals so I wouldn't even call that close. It was roughly the same margin between Mirai and Rachael as it was between Rachael and Alissa. I also wouldn't say that Mirai has more potential to contend at present time. If she can't keep her composure at Nationals, how can we expect her to keep it together at Worlds where she has clearly melted down before.

pangtongfan · Feb 8, 2011

Thanks to ridiculously scored PCS Flatt did indeed have a big margin over Nagasu at Nationals. At the very least Flatt was overscored and no way should the point gap have been as big.

Nagasu won the short program at Worlds last year. Asada had her triple axel downgraded, but Nagasu had her triple-triple downgraded, without both of she still might have won the short program (or atleast been virtually tied with a clean Asada) making all the more amazing. She actually would have probably won the title had she skated a clean free skate. That alone shows her potential even at present time is far beyond Flatt who lets be honest the judges would never remotedly consider winning a major title in a million years as they obviously did Nagasu last year.

Nagasu finished over Flatt at Worlds last year so how did Flatt "melt down" any less. Or if she did it just shows even a melting down Nagasu can outplace Flatt at the World level. And Nagasu and Flatt both landed only 4 triples out of a planned 7 in the LP at Nationals so how exactly did Flatt hold it together so much better.

blue dog · Feb 8, 2011

pangtongfan said:
That alone shows her potential ...QUOTE]
Potential is nice, but potential should only be lauded if someone lives up to it.

FlattFan · Feb 8, 2011

pangtongfan said:
I personally thought Nagasu deserved 2nd place at Nationals. I would have to break down the protocals again maybe, but both landed 4 triples and Nagasu is by far the better skater. Maybe Nagasu's fall on the spin is what gave Flatt the edge though. I thought the U.S made a mistake though, when two skaters give comparable performances with similar mistakes and content you should always go with the more talented skater, with more future potential, and more potential to contend at that present time. And Nagasu is easily all 3 of those things over Flatt.

Flatt's short program is pretty nice and a big improvement, but her long is blah and will continue to get low PCS from international judges. Maybe she should change the LP too before Worlds if she hopes to have a chance of placing reasonably.

Rachael had 4 clean triples: 2 flips, 1 lutz, 1 loop. stepped out on her salchow (fully rotated). 3Toe was URed, popped 1 lutz.
Mirai had 4 clean triples: 1 flip, 1 lutz, 1 loop, 1 toe. the other lutz was URed.

Rachael backloaded most of her jumps, and in term of clean jumps, she had 1 3flip over Mirai's 1 3toe. She also had a salchow.

From the slowmo at the end of Mirai's skate, her flip was clearly underrotated, but they gave it to her anyway. So was her loop.

I'm surprised the gap wasn't bigger, to be honest.

PCS-wise, Mirai's PCS is maybe 1 or 2 points higher than Flatt internationally, but from that night, her FS was terrible and with the glaring mistake on the misspin, her PCS deservedly marked lower. Read the protocol again. No one is robbing Mirai.

BackStage Barbie · Feb 8, 2011

There is also the fact that Mirai was clearly not putting any effort into the performance and had no expression on her face or in her body. Her scores for interpretation alone should have been low enough to keep her PCS down a bit.

mskater93 · Feb 8, 2011

BackStage Barbie said:
There is also the fact that Mirai was clearly not putting any effort into the performance and had no expression on her face or in her body. Her scores for interpretation alone should have been low enough to keep her PCS down a bit.

The FSSp got no level (in other words NO POINTS) in addition to what was justifiably lower PCS than normal. The flip and loop were borderline and the tech panel gave her the benefit of the doubt. I still would have had a bigger gap between Alissa and Rachel and a smaller gap between Rachel and Mirai (but Rachel still ahead based on the lost FSSp) but the results were correct, international judges thoughts and all...

Flatt should go to school, her peak is already in the past

Violet Bliss

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