Mens Lp

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 30, 2003

Hooray for JEFF . I believe this is his first international gold. and look at that field!

Timothy Goebel
Brian Joubert
Alexander Abt
Matt Savoie

Now who is in the Finals"

Joe

dewet · Nov 30, 2003

Joe, didn't Jeff win Four Continents a few years back?

Lynn226 · Nov 30, 2003

Jeff won 4CC in 2002.

Lcp88 · Nov 30, 2003

Interesting...I'm looking forward to seeing how well Buttle does in the GPF against Plushenco.
Laura

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 30, 2003

dewet; Lynne. Thanks for reminding me. Somehow 4CC doesn't come up very often. Nevertheless, NHK was Jeff's night. I think everyone is glad for him.

Laura - Jeff gave a little tap to Evgeni in Skate Canada - not a real push but just a tap to let him know that Jeff will land his quad and skate in a totally different style than he does in the finals.

Joe

Zanzibar · Nov 30, 2003

GPF

And when Plush skates against Buttle in the GPF, I can only hope for one result....that Plush kicks Buttle's butt from one length of Colorado ice to the other.

It's bad enough having Goebel near the top - if the North American men take over, all hope - all artistry in men's skating will be finished.

Well, one exception - Sandhu. But, not his season so far.

mpal2 · Nov 30, 2003

Re: GPF

Zanzibar said:
And when Plush skates against Buttle in the GPF, I can only hope for one result....that Plush kicks Buttle's butt from one length of Colorado ice to the other.

It's bad enough having Goebel near the top - if the North American men take over, all hope - all artistry in men's skating will be finished.

Well, one exception - Sandhu. But, not his season so far.

That would be true assuming the flailing around the ice ala Plushenko is everyone's version of artistry.

Antilles · Dec 1, 2003

I think Buttle is artistic. He's not just about jumps. He has great spins and he spins in both directions. He also interprets music very well. Goebel's artistry is improving, and though I don't much care for his skating, Weiss isn't bad in the artistry dept. I think NA men are doing fine.

thisthingcalledlove · Dec 1, 2003

men = artistry?

OK...

I think all of the men can learn from the crop of today's ladies when it comes to artistry...

Plush- NO MORE GYRATIONS, PLEASE. And cut the hair.

Weiss- Somehow, all of his characters/programs remind me of Gaston from Beauty and the Beast, just set to different music, like the Spanish program was Gaston goes to Madrid...

Tim- Just like the song...your neck your back...need I say more?

Kevin- You're cute, yes, girls swoon, yes, but you're slow!

Brian J- Time with Todd Eldredge, Scott Davis, or Tara Lipinski will fix that sit spin problem.

Jeff- Your arms remind me of Karen Kwan...but too much sometimes. And you need a tan.

Matt = Petrova/Tikhonov

Chengjiang Li = Totmianina/Marinin

So, it's not just North American men, but most of them =P

dorispulaski · Dec 1, 2003

How weird that Tim got food poisoning in Japan when in the COC fluff piece, ABC said, on showing all those shots of people eating fried bugs and slugs, that Tim shouldn't eat any. (singled him out rather than others).

I heard that both Tim and Maria Petrova both got food poisoning?

There should be a rule that skaters should not eat sushi or any other raw meat before a competition. Didn't about half the Russian team eat sushi and fall ill in Detroit 1998 Worlds?

It makes me feel that all coaches should head off to these events with 2 loaves of bread, a jar of peanut butter, a jar of jelly, and bottles of vitamins and forbid students to eat anything but.

dpp

lavender · Dec 1, 2003

Really like Plushenko and Buttle can't really touch him in a lot of areas but Buttle has Plushenko beat right now in artistry whether the scores show it or not.

rain · Dec 1, 2003

I debated whether to wade into the Buttle/Plushenko debate, but here goes.... In jumps, Plushenko is still technically ahead of Buttle, who can't seem to get the quad consistently. Both have great artistry (don't know where the comment came from about Buttle not having that - he is a fairly classical-looking skater). Personally my preference is for Buttle who seems more genuine to me, though Plushenko has admittedly improved here in recent years - I remember a time when all his flowery movements used to make me cringe. I think the great thing is that I see the potential in Buttle to be able to actually be some serious competition for Plushenko in the future....with Yagudin out, Plushenko is arguably unbeatable right now, which makes for some fairly boring events. I think anyone who dismisses either skater does so at their peril.

chuckm · Dec 1, 2003

Buttle is something of a challenge right now, because Plushy's bad knee keeps him from performing at his best. But Buttle really does not have a quad; I see Jeff as a Todd Eldredge or Michael Weiss in this respect.

Plushy can still deliver his quad, and occasionally his quad combo, and that puts him ahead of a quadless Buttle. They both are strong performers artistically.

rain · Dec 1, 2003

Jeff is still young and I wouldn't count him out on the quad just yet. He has landed it, though admittedly with no consistency in competition. But consider that as little as two years ago he was in the same exact situation with the triple axel, which he now lands on a regular basis. He's never even won the national championship. Last year was his first trip to worlds. He's at the beginning of his amateur career, while I consider Plushenko already well established and someone I could see going pro after the next Olympics should he win (which looks more than likely at this early stage). Aside from that one jump I do not consider Plushenko light years ahead of Buttle in any respect. I think this could develop into a genuine rivalry, even providing Plushenko gets and remains healthy.

elingrace4eva · Dec 1, 2003

Yes, we can talk for hours comparing Buttle and Plushenko...but what about Buttle and Goebel? I think that those two are a much closer match, given that one of the major reasons that Jeff beat Tim was because of the food poisoning. I love Jeff Buttle, and I love Tim Goebel...but, at this point, neither of them are giving a rather flawed Plushneko much of a fight.

rain · Dec 2, 2003

First, while I agree Goebel and Buttle make an interesting match-up, Goebel stated clearly in post-competition interviews that his long program performance was in no way hampered by the food poisoning. I don't think it's fair to knock Buttle's win by saying he only did so because Goebel was ill.

As for how the two match up, clearly Goebel has had more consistent quads, but in other technical areas - spins, footwork etc - I would mark Buttle ahead. I also think Buttle is the superior artist, though Goebel has certainly shown some improvement in this area over the last couple of years. Still, the positioning of shoulders, neck and back are noticeably still stiff when Geobel performs. Neither are hugely consistent in landing all their jumps in a given program.

As for how they stack up against Plushenko, I think it's giving Plushenko undeserved credit to say neither are really in his league, even healthy. Last year? at worlds I thought Goebel should have had the gold medal ahead of Plushenko, who also has always had his own problems with consistency. Sure, Plushenko is great, but unbeatable? No. He may not be beaten this year, but I wouldn't count out Buttle or Goebel in years to come.

Tonichelle · Dec 2, 2003

as far as Buttle and Goebel go... at worlds it's going to come down to experience... Will Buttle be able to hold up under all of the pressure that is most likely going to be set on him after such a strong opening?

rain · Dec 2, 2003

Oh, I agree, experience could be a big factor. Both Goebel and Plushenko have shown they can do it when it counts (though they've both had disappointing moments as well). Buttle is still an unkown factor..... So far he seems to have that fight and the ability to rise to the occasion, but he's never had to do it at the really big events when people actually had expectations of him before. We'll see how he handles it.

euterpe · Dec 2, 2003

Goebel has had a boot problem that has hurt his 3A and his edge jumps. He has fallen twice during the GP series on his 3A, a jump he's never had problems with before. Tim can still do at least one quad, but the absence of a reliable 3A hurts his ability to do a 2nd combo.

elingrace4eva · Dec 2, 2003

Rain, I worded what I meant wrong...because I just read it, and that's not what I meant at all, sorry

.

What I was suggesting is that in terms of performances, Buttle and Goebel are a lot more evenly matched generally than with Plushenko. However, they do challenge Plushenko, and I worded it wrong when I insinuated that they are out of Plushenko's league. I agree that Tim should have won gold at worlds last year, and was rather upset when he didn't. They can both challenge Plushenko when they skate their best, but as they have been skating this year in competition, they are a much better matchup against each other, because no matter which one wins, it wouldn't be an upset.

I don't know if that made any more sense...just wanted to clarify. I hope that they can both beat Plushenko, because, personally, I enjoy their skating much more than his.

Kat

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