Entry Lists/Predictions | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Entry Lists/Predictions

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Hey, we seem to be missing Cathy/Chris Reed of Japan in the Ice Dance. Anybody know why? I know they competed (and medaled) at the Asian Games which was in the last few days so maybe too close in time with 4CC. I assume there was some strategy in sending them to Asian Games rather than 4CC, which is obviously a bigger competition.

There's no information on the "reason". In fact, Reeds didn't compete at 4CC in past two seasons. Maybe they just don't want long trips to Asia. For the JSF and the Japanese Olympic Committee, Asian Winter Games is more important. Reeds could turn down 4CC assignment in return for going to Kazakhstan. The lack of domestic competitions is making a good excuse for them. I hope some new teams to pose challenges to them.
 
Last edited:

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Re age discrepencies with Chinese athletes: I don't know what or how the Chinese Federation does with their info and docs, but I do have some understanding why the Chinese "cheating" usually involves their athletes' ages, as opposed to rampant drug uses.

A Chinese tell his/her age

1. by the Lunar calendar,
2. as one year old at birth, and
3. add one year at Chinese (Lunar) New year.

A baby born on the eve of the Chinese New Year is considered 2 years old the next day! Most Chinese will tell you their age, in all honesty, 1 - 2 years older than how Westerners calculate ages. Wanting to be young and counting one's age by birthday is a new concept to most Chinese in China. And the less educated ones don't even know their birthdays by Western calendar. Things can get quite confusing.

For a little levity, I'll tell a story I heard from a HK immigrant but don't send me any Canadian G-man because it's hearsay and I don't know the people in the story:

A Chinese immigrant in Canada was left with 3 children after his wife died. He sent words back to his village back in China to find a new wife, specifying someone about 40 years old because he didn't want any more children. A 30 year old widow there was encouraged by her relatives to tell her age as 40 so she could marry again. She came to Canada, had 3 kids with her new husband and started receiving her Canadian Pension 10 years early. Everybody lives happily ever after.

eta: The Chinese don't name months; instead they are numbered 1 to 12, in both calendars and they don't coincide. When talking to a visitor or new immigrant from China, getting his/her age is often confusing, whether going by what s/he tells you or by trying to calculate with his/her birthday.

A Chinese' age usually just means which Lunar year they are currently living. Someone saying he's 30 means this is the 30th Lunar year he's living and the aforementioned baby is in his second Lunar year the day after his birth. The baby born a day after him, on New Year's Day, is forever one year younger. The Chinese do celebrate birthdays, traditionally for elders, for full age, i.e. one year more than a Westerner would consider himself to be, but they start considering themselves that age on New Year's Day.

BTW, there are 360 days per Lunar year vs 365(.25) days in the Gregorian calendar year.
 
Last edited:

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
Thanks SkateFiguring. Your info is informative. What you provided gives me an understanding as to the context of age discrepancy.

When athelete is accomplished enough to participate in international competitions, I still believe that it is the Chinese federation's responsibility to rigorously verify the age requirement.

I remember the lingering age requirement doubt of Chinese gymnasttic team that medaled in the 2000 Sydney Olympics. The dispute was finally resolved 10 years later. The Chinese team was confiscated of their medals and the US team was awared their "rightful" bronze medals.

No athletes should be denied of 10 years of rightful achievement and recognition. I also don't blame Chinese gymnasts either. They don't deserve to live for 10 years as if they were criminals.

I just have to let this off my chest. So there.
 
Last edited:

BackStage Barbie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
I go more in-depth with my predictions and my reasoning on my blog

http://backstagebarbie.blogspot.com/

But here are my podium predictions:

Men:
1) Kozuka
2) Takahashi
3) Abbott

Ladies:
1) Ando
2) Czisny
3) Asada

Pairs:
1) Pang & Tong
2) Yankowskas & Coughlin
3) Moore-Towers & Moscovitch

Dance:
1) Davis & White
2) Virtue & Moir
3) Shibutani & Shibutani
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Re age discrepencies with Chinese athletes: I don't know what or how the Chinese Federation does with their info and docs, but I do have some understanding why the Chinese "cheating" usually involves their athletes' ages, as opposed to rampant drug uses.

<snip the rest for brevity>

All of this information may be fascinating to others, but is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand and seems to be trotted out as a form of "excuse" for bad behavior. What you are speaking of is cultural and folk colloquialisms, what really matters is legality. As a matter of legality on birth dates, what's on a Chinese birth certificate is the same as anywhere else in the world: it's the date the baby pops out of its mother. It is a fixed date in time, using the same (solar) calendar as anywhere else. Whatever age people choose to call themselves in solar years, western years, lunar years, dog years, or whatever...is not relevant.

The ISU, as a requirement for participating in Junior and Senior International Competitions, sets a fixed date in time for age requirements--as in for Senior Competitions in the 2010-2011 season, one must have been born by July 1, 1995. Fixed date of one's birth <--> Fixed date requirement from ISU. Apples to apples. Let's all be very clear about this. There is no "misunderstanding" because of ISU/Western customs vs Chinese cultural habits. This is an attempt at cheating. Whether it is using an athlete's actual birth date that violates the ISU minimums (or maximums in the case of Junior comps) and the Chinese hoping nobody will notice, or whether it is outright falsification of the actual fixed birth date--which yes, happens with Chinese government collusion with the Federation--it is still cheating.

As an aside to the last comment from the quoted poster RE drug use: not in figure skating, but clearly, you haven't seen the Chinese lady weightlifters. Would give the mighty "ladies" of old East Germany a run for their money. That's for a different forum however....
 
Last edited:

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I agree, bigisjiejie. I have no doubt that the Chinese federation knows exactly the date its skaters were born on. It's one thing to be confused about ages in a personal context, but this is a big, powerful, experienced federation with many high level athletes and I have no doubt they know the rules.

I'm willing to believe entering Kexin Zhang and maybe even the 3 pairs entries were errors on behalf of both the Chinese federation and the ISU, but submitting fake ages for figure skaters, as it is currently rumored, is blatant cheating and needs to be addressed and stopped.
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
There's no information on the "reason". In fact, Reeds didn't compete at 4CC in past two seasons. Maybe they just don't want long trips to Asia. For the JSF and the Japanese Olympic Committee, Asian Winter Games is more important. Reeds could turn down 4CC assignment in return for going to Kazakhstan. The lack of domestic competitions is making a good excuse for them. I hope some new teams to pose challenges to them.

This plus what Dorispulaski said previously makes sense on why they skipped 4CC. I understand that lack of suitable high-level coaching in Japan is an issue, but I'd love to see the Japanese find a way to encourage ice dancing and build up a few international caliber teams first at junior and senior levels. Even if it meant sending them abroad for awhile, or funding a training facility in Japan and setting up some top foreign coaches. Language barriers can be dealt with. There's got to be some talent out there somewhere...
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:unsure: Why Japan has not gone more seriously into ice dance has been a mystery to me for some time..The problem in pairs ( difficulty in finding hefty enough men) I can sort of see, but ice dance ,one would think , should not be as problematic. They've had no reservations about sending other athletes abroad , so ... I don't get it.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Witness the success of the Shibutanis. Surely there is a brother/sister team in Japan that can skate together?

At this point, the JSF has missed the opportunity to recruit the Shibs to skate for Japan, too. Their bad.
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
Let's hope the Reeds and the Shibs' success inspire young Japanese skaters.

For as far as I know, the Shibs are very popular in Japan.
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
I've been told that the ISU is aware of Kexin ZHANG's birthdate situation and are in touch with the Chinese federation about it.
Kexin Zhang's name was removed from the Four Continents roster yesterday (Feb. 9). Since China didn't list any ladies' alternates, she will not be replaced.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
As an aside to the last comment from the quoted poster RE drug use: not in figure skating, but clearly, you haven't seen the Chinese lady weightlifters. Would give the mighty "ladies" of old East Germany a run for their money. That's for a different forum however....

There are enough of very high profile drug uses and proven Olympic cheats from finger pointing nations. I don't want to get into these or make this more political than it is already. Sometimes people forget they live in glass houses.

For interest, while Western Calendar has numbered years and named months, the Chinese calendar has named years and numbered months. The years' names are derived from ancient word sequences that modern and uneducated Chinese are unfamiliar with so these names are just to be memorized.

Also for interest, in the West, a birthday is supposed to mark the day someone has fully lived another year, to be added to his/her age. But it is really the day before the birth anniversay that marks such an event. A person does not turn 21 on his 21st birthday; he did it the day before. He is in his 22nd year on the 21st birthday. Anyway, I'm not accusing anybody of lying on their birthdays. :laugh:

Japan and China seem to produce top skaters in different fields. While Japan dominates in Singles, China has been the strongest in Pairs and now seems to have some Dancers appearing near the top as well. It may have more to do with coaching. While the Chinese figure skating pioneer is World Champion Lu Chen, it's the determination of a pair skater without high personal achievements who caltivated the high level of pair skating in China.

OTOH, the Japanese have been riding the waves of their initial and current superstars in Singles. I seriously doubt finding hefty men for Pairs is a problem for Japan, even though the curent top Japanese Men are relatively small. It's up to the Japanese Federation to set its priorities. Different nations just have different emphasis. The Americans, e.g., are most interested in their Ladies.

It is interesting there are so many brother/sister teams in Dance which often involve romantic programs but no such pair teams, due, no doubt, to siblings usually having similar sizes, lacking the discrepency advantageous for pairs. However, sibling teams do have the advantages of more stable relationships, easier scheduling, and a more reliable size expectation when young.

The current top Japanese pair includes a Canadian, Tran, so something has to be resolved for the next Olympic. Japanese don't give up their citizenships easily, which says a lot about the ambition and detemination of Kavaguti, whom Japan lost to Russia.
 

npa

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Witness the success of the Shibutanis. Surely there is a brother/sister team in Japan that can skate together?

At this point, the JSF has missed the opportunity to recruit the Shibs to skate for Japan, too. Their bad.

Why they need to skate for Japan? They will beat D-W next season and become number 1 team in USA ;)
 

bsfan

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
As a Chinese myself I don't see any reason that these skaters' parents could have messed their birthdays with western calendar. These skaters were born in late 80's and 90's. It's highly unlikely that their parents( born after 1950 I would assum) were still counting Lunar in 80's and 90's. Plus, if one was born in 1995, nobody would say she was born in Lunar 1995, rather they would say Lunar pig year. Lunar year is associated with animal signs, not western calender number. For example, when a child was born on Feb 2 2011(last day of Tiger year), she would be 2 years old on 2/3( first day of Rabbit year). We all know it means chinese age. Nobody considers the birthday as 2/2/2009. If grandma's generation would mess up the year, they won't mess up the animal sign. They always know the baby was born in Tiger year.

Furthermore, figure skating is expensive in china anyway. These skaters are not from humble families if not rich families. All in all, I don't believe these dates inconsistency is accidental.
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
I'm willing to believe entering Kexin Zhang and maybe even the 3 pairs entries were errors on behalf of both the Chinese federation and the ISU, but submitting fake ages for figure skaters, as it is currently rumored, is blatant cheating and needs to be addressed and stopped.

You know what they say, "once is a mistake, twice is a pattern, and the thrice is a trend." ;)
 
Last edited:

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
Kexin Zhang's name was removed from the Four Continents roster yesterday (Feb. 9). Since China didn't list any ladies' alternates, she will not be replaced.

While I am happy that Kexin Zhang's situation is resolved, I feel dimsayed with the Chinese federation's dereliction of its duty - not listing any ladies' anlternates, thereby denying an additional promising Chinese skater of invaluable experience and international exposure.

Let's hope that the Chinese federation learned a proper lesson as we can continue to speak up against rule bleaches.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
And how do you think?

The Shibutanis are good and their scores may get closer to Davis and White's but they will not be in a position to beat them by next season. That's too fast. Also they may never beat Davis and White. Just because Davis and White hopped over Belbin and Agosto doesn't mean the next team's going to hop over them.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
And let's not forget about Samuelson and Bates. I really hope to see them back next year, and they could absolutely take 2nd spot. Shibutani's are really good, but they donot yet have the depth and maturity to be the top team quite yet.
 
Top