Ladies - Long Program | Page 23 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Long Program

MK's Winter

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Is there any links to Mirai, Rachel, or Alyssa's long programs? I have seen Mikki and Mao' s but I want to see everyone before I give any opinions.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
As for the competition, good to see last how-many-was-it skaters go (relatively) clean. However, I found scoring especially in the last group to be very inflated. Thought scores weren't going to go over 130 unless it was like Yu-Na Kim going clean with quality jumps and everything, but it seems like the judges want to see high scores.

@Krislite
I don't necessarily see higher PCS scores compared to last year (ex. Ando had 61.60 @ Olympics) it seems to me that judges are giving out GOEs like candies.

I think it's a little bit inflated because I have been taking notes at the same time when they skated and after the protocol came out, I adjusted for the Tech Panel's call, I thought all the top 3 skaters should be approximately in the 68 +/- 2 for their TES. Let me go into more details to provide some perspective based on each of the top 3's performance.

Miki Ando: Very solid skate, which gathered positive GOE on every element IMO except the the 2A+2Lo+2Lo combo, with the last jump in the combo appearing to on the borderline of being downgraded - a very common problem in a 3 jump combo using Loop jumps. Aside from the Triple Loop at the beginning of the program, which was accompanied with difficult steps prior to entry, most of her elements were not preceded with difficult transitions or in-between technical features. That's why I felt her positive GOE needed to be restrained as such, limited to +1 in most cases, for good execution on the stand-alone elements.

Mao Asada: She skated very well, the edge call on the Triple Lutz was a surprise to me because from my angle, she took off from the Outside Edge as I was paying attention to the edge of that jump in particular. Perhaps she switched to Inside Edge just prior to take-off, if so, from my angle it was not possible to see. Her elements #5 & #6, the 2A+3T and 3F+2Lo+2Lo combos obviously had some problem. Sometimes, it's harder to see via an internet connection when the view is not HD but even in this case, it was clear to me the landings of the last jump in each of these two combos were likely under-rotated. So I marked them down for review and it turned out, indeed, the Technical Panel downgraded them with <, therefore, upon such notice, both elements were assessed -1 for GOE in my view. The Triple Salchow was very problematic to the point that no review was necessary, the execution had to be in the negative GOE territory as well. So three Elemeents #5 to 7, were all assessed with negative GOE penalty. One thing Mao did do well was the transition into her FCCoSp at the end where it was done straight out of her Triple Loop, making the entry particularly difficult.

Mirai Nagasu: I thought that Mirai executed her elements better than the top 2 Japanese skaters in part because she made an effort to include more difficult entries prior to her jumps than either Ando or Asada, namely her Triple Loop and the Double Axel. I didn't see any jumps that could be UR or downgraded in Mirai's skate so it was a very solid performance. Her TES was up there with the top 2 Japanese girls.


I'd say overall, both Ando and Asada need to include more difficult entries prior to their elements. I am sorry to say this but both of these girls scored in the 6s in my view for their TR category. In that sense, I think their marks are a little inflated. Then again, with such great skates, it really doesn't matter. Also, high score is not a copyright of Yu-Na Kim. If anyone can skate as well as these three did last night, they all deserved high scores. Whether the scores were higher by a few points, it really doesn't matter.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
And no, I'm not a Mao, Miki hater here to argue to death that their scores were undeserved. I don't give a big hoot about scores as long as the placements are right (which I believe were. Loved the podium). Just found it annoying that I couldn't even question inflation :rolleye: Seriously, I'm a huge Yu-na fan, but believe her 2009 Worlds, 2010 Olympic and 2010 Worlds scores were inflated. So what? All that matters is that she won gold, gold and silver, leaving behind some memorable performances that I've rewatched many times.

Sorry. I see your point now. I admit I was irked by your last remarks and didn't catch the humor. Mind is a little fuzzy. Stayed up all night to watch the ladies, so please forgive. :)
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Probably not. I'm guessing Miki's GOEs here were a fluke. Nothing else can explain the sudden jump from 0.7 (GPF) to 1.3. I've never seen a huge jump like that.

[...]

I think I like the changes Mao's made to her LP, esp. the opening. She's two-footing a bit, but I'm guessing her tech will be dealt with and be in spectacular shape come March. I actually think her 3As are gaining greater ice coverage than before, reminiscent of her 07-08 season jumps (awesome quality, esp. at 4CC) Can't wait to see two perfect performances in March.

As magicalwords pointed out already and I concur, the scores for Miki Ando appeared a little inflated. In my view, it was the lack of more difficult entries that bothered me, otherwise, I would have been happy to agree with the TES given. Definitely both her and Mao were two-footing a little too much in between their elements. Sometimes, you can get away with it, sometimes you can't. At a competition like this, I guess they did. Though, as I mentioned earlier, the transitions they put in should merit no more than mid 6s in the TR category of PCS and also limit the GOE on their TES.

I thought Asada's Triple Axel is much improved. For the 1st time in a long time I can say it actually merits a positive GOE.
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Sorry. I see your point now. I admit I was irked by your last remarks and didn't catch the humor. Mind is a little fuzzy. Stayed up all night to watch the ladies, so please forgive. :)

That's all right :) Was a little surprised by your tone since you're usually super polite & kind. Cheers to a sweep by Mirai, Mao and Miki! Some very great skating, overall. Hope the good momentum builds into something even better in Tokyo.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Wow... These scores are :eek: I have no questions about Miki's first place (her scores were a bit too high though), but as for Mao and Mirai... Come on, almost every jump looked UR, how did they get full credit for them and +GOE? They both were overscored. I feel that technical callers at Euros were much stricter in every discipline, wonder how it will be at Worlds.

Yuna will have no problems winning Worlds this time for sure. If she will not fall 3-4 times, it's hers for taking.

Oh really, so you think almost every jump from Mao and Mirai were UR. You must have a superman eyesight or something because I honestly can't see how you come up with such outrageous statement. Care to show us how every single of their jump is UR, eh or maybe you just prefer to continue your trend of indiscriminate bashing of every skater in preparation of the grand entree of the little Russian jumping beans in two years? :disapp: It's getting a little old you know, not just ladies but in men's skating as well. Do you find any skater who isn't Russian to be worthy of your praise at all? :rolleye: BTW, you'll be pleased to know the Technical Panel at 4CC for Ladies were mostly EUROPEAN. Controller = German, Tech. Specialist = Mexican, Assistant Tech. Specialist = Austrian If the 4CC panel were indeed more lenient as you claim, I thought you be comfort to know it's because it consists mostly of Europeans - nothing works likes such gotcha facts against people like you who don't bother with fact checking before posting. Sorry if I make you look like someone who is awfully unprepared for your nasty propaganda against non-Russian skaters. All I can say is: "Oh well, better luck next time!" :laugh:
 

mariposa

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
I am so thrilled for the podium finishers..I thought it was "just" place for all of them...However- I'm so dissappointed in the Canadian women. I read where Myriane had some tendonitis in her knee and I applaud her for her giving it a go and fighting all the way through her LP. But what happened to Amelie Lacoste? It could have been nerves and pressure she put on herself. She's a powerful jumper and I always thought that would be her best attribute, but I guess she just couldn't re-group after the first pop. Cynthia was OK..she still struggles in her long. Her aiming for a second lutz is a good idea in preperation for Worlds but I feel this particular programme doesn't suit her style. Anywho--I hope Worlds will be better for all three and Canada.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
The problem is, while I feel that the placements are correct, I feel that the judges were too generous in the scoring. Some of Mao's and Mirai's jumps were okay, but did they really all deserve positive GoE? But like I said, it is what it is. The way in which the judges choose to score is not going to change and neither is my opinion.

That was not the question. You said you thought many of those jumps should have been called UR but you completely evaded the question when asked which jumps you thought weren't called. I know exactly which jumps I felt was iffy and if you ask me, I can point you to precisely the question marks I noted. Since you can't, I can't help but conclude your original statement was baseless so I hope you retrack it, otherwise, it just consistutes unfair bashing of the skaters, which is just not fair or right.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Mirai: 3Lz in combination, 3T in combination 3-2-2, 3Lo were underrotated. Other jumps were borderline.
Mao: both 3F, 3Lo and 3S looked at least questionable

As for Mirai, I didn't see any underrotations. I watched it again on youtube. They look very clean to me and the judges agreed with me.
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
I thought Asada's Triple Axel is much improved. For the 1st time in a long time I can say it actually merits a positive GOE.

The changes she's made to her flip also merits praise. Hated her bending motion going into the entry. She was also developing a hideous mule kick. It's amazing how soon her efforts are paying off. The combination of immense talent and unrelenting effort are obviously paying off.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I got the same feeling watching Mirai last night that i did at the Olympics in the LP when she knocked it out of the park. This may have been the best i've ever seen her skate a LP. She was fast and confident and her jumps were huge compared to what we've seen this year. If only she skated with half the energy she did last night she would have at least finished 2nd at Nationals and would be on her way to Worlds. I get the feeling the US is leaving it's best skater behind.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
As for Mirai, I didn't see any underrotations. I watched it again on youtube. They look very clean to me and the judges agreed with me.

Don't bother with that poster, I agree with you, none of the jumps she mentioned were UR or even questionable. It's completely BS. Even just looking at Mirai's score in the 3 jumping passes mentioned, where the said poster concluded were underrotated (note, she didn't say questionable, she said UR, read her post, with very assertive statement in the case of Mirai), neither the Technical Panel picks up anything and all 9 judges, 9 X 3 = 27, gave her 26 positive GOE out of a possibility of 27 among those 3 elements. I should also add Mirai's 3 Loop was preceded with difficult entries, which should gather additional bonus for features. My guess, the said poster just randomly picks 3 jumping passes, in the same way she thought the 4CC panel was too lenient compared to Europeans only to find out the Tech. Panel here is actually mostly European as well, ROFL. :laugh: It's amusing how people made these really funny assertions without covering their behind to begin with.
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Don't bother with that poster, I agree with you, none of the jumps she mentioned were UR or even questionable. It's completely BS. Even just looking at Mirai's score in the 3 jumping passes mentioned, where the said poster concluded were underrotated (note, she didn't say questionable, she said UR, read her post, with very assertive statement in the case of Mirai), neither the Technical Panel picks up anything and all 9 judges, 9 X 3 = 27, gave her 26 positive GOE out of a possibility of 27 among those 3 elements. I should also add Mirai's 3 Loop was preceded with difficult entries, which should gather additional bonus for features. My guess, the said poster just randomly picks 3 jumping passes, in the same way she thought the 4CC panel was too lenient compared to Europeans only to find out the Tech. Panel here is actually mostly European as well, ROFL. :laugh: It's amusing how people made these really funny assertions without covering their behind to begin with.

I was about to say...I thought the loop was the best executed jump out of all of them...
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Sorry if I make you look like someone who is awfully unprepared for your nasty propaganda against non-Russian skaters. All I can say is: "Oh well, better luck next time!" :laugh:

Oh, I have to ask, where did you read that? :laugh: Because I didn't write this for sure. And it's not about Russian or non-Russian skaters. Actually I'm a Mao's fan. But this time she didn't rotate her jumps and I was really surprised with her scores. But I do think that Mao is not a chronic underrotater and it's all because she is still fixing her technique. I expect clean jumps from her next season and would love to see it.
Same about Mirai. Her 3Lz for example
http://radikal.ru/F/s016.radikal.ru/i336/1102/7f/43857a5b33f6.jpg.html

As I already said, I have no questions about Miki's jumps, they were clean.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I have to stick up for Lucky Star, she is a pretty fair poster.

I love Asada, but I'm also a little surpirsed that some jumps (3S) weren't looked at more closely. Same with Flatt. Overall, I think it was a really high marked competition, but it was so for everyone, but it works out in the end.

Mirai's jumps looked better than ever to me, though.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Post #442
This is such an excellent post. I really appreciate these kind of detailed analyses.

I only watched the ladies' top 5 SP/LP at this event so far. My thoughts:

1) Still impressed with Miki's SP. It's one of her best that I've seen (if not the best.) The elegant, glamorous style really suits her--she seems to be drawn towards dramatic, darker themes, but this is where she is really in her element, it seems. The improvement in her spins is very noticeable, but I thought her steps stood out the most: crisp and controlled. Stylistically I don't like her LP as much (reminds me of her older stuff) but her technical remains very strong with powerful, clean jumps with the aforementioned improvements. If my amateur eyes are not deceiving me, even her basic skating skills seem to have improved. Congrats on the win. :)

2) Mao - has anyone else mentioned how she's switched to wearing her tan skates bare, without stockings covering them? I LOVE IT! It goes especially well with her new SP costume. Her lavender dress in the LP might go better with bare white skates, but still, I really do like the look of her tan skates.

Choreography change in LP - hmm...I think I like it as much as I liked the old choreo. :S I don't have the most keen eye for choreography, but this was just different and I enjoyed it. Especially the unexpected ending short spiral. Gorgeous high 3A, completely and unequivocally fully rotated. :love: I agree with the poster who noted that it deserves stronger Interpretation scores than it got.

3) Mirai. Her LP was my fav of this competition, and she continues to grow on me. Her jumps were soooooo clean with buttery smooth landings (I love those kinds of jumps) and nice expression, with amazing spins as usual. I realize that Alissa's spins are best (considering their centering, acceleration, and smooth transitioning between positions) but somehow I find Mirai's a little more fun to watch. Is it possible for a spin to have personality? It seems there is more personality to Mirai's spins. (I know I may be jumping into hot water with this one.)

Also, the fact that she ranked highest of the American ladies here at 4CC is both something of a vindication as well as a reason for regret. Why couldn't you do this at Nats??? :cry: The Tokyo audience at Worlds would have loved to have seen this, I'm sure.

One thing I do notice though, is that Mirai has a slight hammertoe on at least one of her jumps--I hope she continues to work on that technique.

I got the same feeling watching Mirai last night that i did at the Olympics in the LP when she knocked it out of the park. This may have been the best i've ever seen her skate a LP. She was fast and confident and her jumps were huge compared to what we've seen this year. If only she skated with half the energy she did last night she would have at least finished 2nd at Nationals and would be on her way to Worlds. I get the feeling the US is leaving it's best skater behind.
I agree with you, but unfortunately it was Mirai who did herself in. The USFSA had no choice unless they were to be unfair to Alissa or Rachael, given how they performed at the US Nats.
 
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cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Miki deserved the win. I admire how hard she has worked to improve. Mao is beautiful to watch, but I agree with those who feel she was given the benefit of the doubt on most of her jumps. Best I have seen Mirai skate. Her jumps were rotated and her spins wonderful. Hope she can take this into next season and continue to improve.
 
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