Whom Do You See on the Worlds Podium? | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Whom Do You See on the Worlds Podium?

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Falls are not good Skating Skills. Tell me they are and prove it.

I'm inclining to not counting jump falls into skating skills. Skaters make many turns in the air. The more turns they make, the more chances that they might fall. If they only make one or two turns in the air, it could be sure that they'll land beautifully almost all the time. It shows a skater's athletic abilities, not skating abilities. Why is it counted as skating skills? It doesn't mean that falls are good skating skills. It just means that they do not belong to skating skills.

I, for one, support partial credit for the skaters with jump falls. Through this partial credit, we could push this sport into the direction of sports, encourage the risk taking, not just pretty, pretty skate figuring.
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
^^^
Fall are ok then since they are not a part of skating skills? And falling on a footwork sequence is not a skating skill or sliding and falling into a camel spin is not a skating skill.

Trust me, if you skate, it takes skating skills to execute jumps, spins, and footwork on skates.

Well, we can disagree on Partial Credit. If the element in question was scored on a scale of 0-10, I would skip the partial credit but only award a Four to a jump fall (2 points for a take-off, and 2 points for the air turns. 0 points for the no landing} and that 4 would be for a perfect take-off and perfect air turns.

Sorry, but Incomplete Elements just are not sporty and not to my liking. Sport is about Perfection. Home Runs are scored by passing Home Plate, not Almost passing Home Plate (an no credit for the attempt).
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
But you do get "points" in your batting average for a base hit, even if you never score a run. In football, your team can kick a field goal if they can't score a touchdown (partial credit). In hockey, if the game ends up tied, you get one point in the standings (partial credit).

If you give no points for an attempt, then you discourage progress in skating. Look at the lamenting about last year's Men's Olympic Champion not having a quad jump. If you were to get zero points for an attempt, everyone would do single jumps and easy double jumps that they would be sure to land and no one would ever attempt 2A or triples unless they were 99.999999% sure they would land them. We'd go back to pre-Dick Button era content and that would be BORING. (This is, of course, just my opinion).
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Trust me, if you skate, it takes skating skills to execute jumps, spins, and footwork on skates.

Exactly, that is why jumps should be considered in SS just like everything else.

Sorry, but Incomplete Elements just are not sporty and not to my liking. Sport is about Perfection. Home Runs are scored by passing Home Plate, not Almost passing Home Plate (an no credit for the attempt).

You can't compare any sport, they are all different with different rules; but one thing is certain, no sport has perfection. Not even skating. It’s about building a program and the person with the highest points wins, that's all. If you have a choreographer that is good with numbers and you execute the program well, you will win. If you execute it well but the choreographer did a bad job of building the program, you will lose. It's as simple as that.

I think skaters should get credit for a jump even if they fall only because the landing is not the only element that goes into the jump. The entry, height or rotation are only a few things judges consider when a skater jumps, the skater should be penalized for a fall but not to the extent that the judges should discount that a quad (or whatever) never happened. If judges are only out for perfection any skater not getting a level 4 or all +3 shouldn’t have any element count, but that isn’t really fair is it? And who wants to watch that? Not me.

And not to pick on Umps, but there are been a fair share of baseball payers who have been clearly called safe/out at home plate when clearly the wrong call had been made so perfection doesn't apply there either.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
General Question: Is this really worth less than this?

Yes, the first one shouldn't even count, she fell before she tried anything. At least with the second one even though she fell and it was under-rotated she should get some credit.

This one is even better S/Z 2002 Olympics Even though she fell; the throw was completed. She fell seconds after she landed so should she not get the 8 points at all? I don't see how that is fair.
 
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ILoveFigures

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Pairs: S/S, P/T, V/T, K/S will most likely be the top 4, in one way or another.
Men: Chan and Takahashi. Kozuka or Oda
Dance: Podium will most likely be D/W and V/M fighting for the gold. Then P/B for bronze.
Ladies: Kim, Ando, Asada. But I am hoping for surprises. lol!
 

Ilvskating

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Pairs: S/S, P/T and one of V/T and K/S. I would like to see Megan and Eric or the new Canadian champains 5th. I think that S/S and P/T would fight for the third world title, but P/T seems a bit scared competing in Russia. They're upgrading their programs to make it more difficult so that they could overcome the location factor.
Ladies: Mao, Yu Na Kim, one of the russian yougsters or Miki Ando. I'm rooting for Mao. Yu na was my biggest favourite, but the way she parted with her coach left a scar not so easy to heal for many Canadians I believe. She is not even in the Canadian figure skating calendar for 2011, the only Olympic Champ not in it. She was kind of treated as half of our own skaters and got all the support through out. If you are not grateful, at least it is expected to be graceful. But that is all past. Let the bygone be bygone. I wish Mao and Yuna skate the heart out and one of them win the gold. Miki is good and getting better. I wish she will be on the podium. I'm impressed with Miki's progress in music enterpretation this season, and her costumes are classy and clean, not like the crazy ones before. I never liked her skating but she won me over this year. If she just go for it and give it all, I'd be happy to see her win too. It's a shame Mirai Nagasu is not going to World. I love Mirai. I also wish Cythia Phaneuf skates two clean program and no popped jumps.

Men: Chan, Oda, Takahashi. I wish Chan get the Gold. Oda not doing an extra combo:) I like Bradley but if all other skaters skating well, it's hard to see him on the podium.

Dance: V/M, D/W, and whoever skate best. V/M is my bet for Gold and if they recover well, they should still be the best. D/W are very good, exciting, but I just feel their emotions are fake, or more specifically hers:)

Let the show begin! oh well, still two more weeks to go.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Pairs: S/S, P/T and one of V/T and K/S. I would like to see Megan and Eric or the new Canadian champains 5th. I think that S/S and P/T would fight for the third world title, but P/T seems a bit scared competing in Russia. They're upgrading their programs to make it more difficult so that they could overcome the location factor.
Ladies: Mao, Yu Na Kim, one of the russian yougsters or Miki Ando. I'm rooting for Mao. Yu na was my biggest favourite, but the way she parted with her coach left a scar not so easy to heal for many Canadians I believe. She is not even in the Canadian figure skating calendar for 2011, the only Olympic Champ not in it. She was kind of treated as half of our own skaters and got all the support through out. If you are not grateful, at least it is expected to be graceful. But that is all past. Let the bygone be bygone. I wish Mao and Yuna skate the heart out and one of them win the gold. Miki is good and getting better. I wish she will be on the podium. I'm impressed with Miki's progress in music enterpretation this season, and her costumes are classy and clean, not like the crazy ones before. I never liked her skating but she won me over this year. If she just go for it and give it all, I'd be happy to see her win too. It's a shame Mirai Nagasu is not going to World. I love Mirai. I also wish Cythia Phaneuf skates two clean program and no popped jumps.

Men: Chan, Oda, Takahashi. I wish Chan get the Gold. Oda not doing an extra combo:) I like Bradley but if all other skaters skating well, it's hard to see him on the podium.

Dance: V/M, D/W, and whoever skate best. V/M is my bet for Gold and if they recover well, they should still be the best. D/W are very good, exciting, but I just feel their emotions are fake, or more specifically hers:)

Let the show begin! oh well, still two more weeks to go.

:confused:
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010

I think what Ilvskating means is that Yu-Na Kim has avoided any show appearance in Canada ever since she left Toronto. It's as though she doesn't care about her fans there. Then again, she may be embarassed to show up in Canada as well, fearing people may think she is ungracious and ungrateful.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I think what Ilvskating means is that Yu-Na Kim has avoided any show appearance in Canada ever since she left Toronto. It's as though she doesn't care about her fans there. Then again, she may be embarassed to show up in Canada as well, fearing people may think she is ungracious and ungrateful.

Wild and baseless speculation. Yu-Na has not avoided anything. She barely appeared in any skating shows in Canada long BEFORE she ever left Toronto, not Canada's SOI or any other skating shows. It has nothing to do with her caring about her fans. Yu-Na never skated in any show in the USA until fall 2010, does that mean she never cared about her American fans? She appeared as a special guest once on Battle of the Blades during the fall of 2009, and that's been pretty much it over the last few years for any kind of show appearances in Canada. During the show season Yu-Na is usually in Korea.

Yu-na has nothing to be embarrassed about, because she is neither ungracious nor ungrateful. I find it interesting that Canadian David Wilson has no problem supporting Yu-Na, and still working with her.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Pairs: S/S, P/T and one of V/T and K/S. I would like to see Megan and Eric or the new Canadian champains 5th. I think that S/S and P/T would fight for the third world title, but P/T seems a bit scared competing in Russia. They're upgrading their programs to make it more difficult so that they could overcome the location factor.

Where did you hear that Pang and Tong upgraded their program? They barely got through it this season as it is. I also read on a Chinese site they are battling fever and knee trouble.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
I was talking about the real calendar featuring 2010 Olympics/World figure skaters: The Figure Skating Calendar 2011. (www.figureskatingcalendar.ca )

Yu na was my biggest favourite, but the way she parted with her coach left a scar not so easy to heal for many Canadians I believe. She is not even in the Canadian figure skating calendar for 2011, the only Olympic Champ not in it. She was kind of treated as half of our own skaters and got all the support through out. If you are not grateful, at least it is expected to be graceful.
YuNa is not in the 2009 or 2010 calendars, either. What does that say about Canadian graciousness? Also, YuNa cried tears of gratitude in YouTube videos for everyone surrounding her, including Orser. Obviously something happened between them afterwards. Orser was not gracious. If some Canadians take it personally, they are petty and small-hearted in my mind.

(I am Canadian, by the way.)
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
So just to be clear, Ilvskating was talking about the fact that Yuna's photo was not appearing in a physical Canadian figure skating calendar for 2011.

Then, wallylutz interpreted that as Yuna not appearing in shows in Canada.

Anyway, I don't think it is fair for anyone to say that Yuna was not being grateful...

On the contrary, what about Brian? Brian benefited tremendously from being Yuna's coach and the exposure it brought.

- Brian became the hottest coach and Toronto Cricket Club became a household name (at least in Korea).
- Brian became a huge celebrity in Korea and appeared in multiple commercials
- Brian took part in Yuna's ice shows - he performed as James Bond along with top entertainers in Korea
- Brian received honoray citizenship from Mayor of Seoul
- Brian was invited to the Blue House to lunch with the President of Republic of Korea
- Brian became the coach of an Olympic Champion.
- And Brian was paid to take part in all this.

Sounds like an awesome gig to me. In fact, it was a dream job for any figure skating coach. And although it was sad to see it end in such a manner, with both sides not handling the situation well, I am sure that Brian will forever cherish these 4 years, and he would be the first to admit that he got so much out of his relationship with Yuna.

And regardless of the circumstances, I still think Brian was reprehensible for publicly lashing out at his pupil and client like that. But I have forgiven him, because I think he was that much emotionally invested in Yuna.

Anyway, enough of this. As Ilvskating said, let bygones be bygones. And let's focus on the World Championships!
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010

If that is still true (if was said before their injuries) I would bump them down from a top 4 placement. He said she had a fever and and is dealing with kness injuries and he also has injuries he is dealing with. At 4CC, they got a seasons best score but it's still 4th place total score in the world. They could barely handle the free skate they have:

1. 2A+1A+SEQ - missed an Axle
2. 2T
3. 4Li4 - not full level
4. FCCoSp3 - not full level
5. PCoSp4
6. 3LzTw2
7. 3STh
8. ChSp1
9. 5ALi4
10. 3LoTh
11. BoDs3 - not full level
12. 5TLi4

Adding more difficulty to a program you can't break 200 on is a mistake especially since they can't compete it once before worlds.
 
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