Are the new Qualifying Rules for Skating Championships making things worse?

Are the new Qualifying Rules for Skating Championships making things worse?

At first i thought the qualification rules were to weed out the lesser skilled skaters to shorten the event at make it go faster. (to simplify things). It later became obvious that a lot of top rank skaters will be force to compete three times while lesser proven skaters automatically get a bye base on others performance and not even there own.:disapp: I hope isu congress really changes things next year because i think this is of the worst concepts they have pushed through and is the most backwards thing they have done yet.

Can someone post exactly what the new rules are?

Last year it was, come one come all to the short program, top 24 skate the long. If the goal was in part to save money, isn't that a better idea?

Mathman said:

Can someone post exactly what the new rules are?

Click to expand...

Excerpted from pages 30-32 of the ISU Special Regulations and Technical Rules for 2010 (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-202745-219968-166758-0-file,00.pdf)
Total Number of entries into the first segment of a Championships/discipline and breakdown between Direct entries and Preliminary Round entries:
a) For the ISU European Figure Skating Championships and the ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships:
Total entries into first segment*/Direct entries/Preliminary Round entries
Men and Ladies 28/18/10
Pair Skating couples 18/12/6
Ice Dance couples 20/12/8
* In the case that the number of total Competitors subject to be entered into a Championships, either directly or through a Preliminary Round exceeds this quota only by 2 Competitors, the President has the right to cancel such Preliminary Round for the respective discipline and to increase the number of total entries into the first segment of the Championships by 2 Competitors.
b) for the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships and the ISU World Figure Skating Championships:
Total entries into first segment*/Direct entries/Preliminary Round entries
Men and Ladies 30/18/12
Pair Skating couples 20/12/8
Ice Dance couples 25/15/10
* In the case that the number of total Competitors subject to be entered into a Championships, either directly or through a Preliminary Round exceeds this quota only by 2 Competitors, the President has the right to cancel such Preliminary Round for the respective discipline and to increase the number of total entries into the first segment of the Championships by 2 Competitors.
In case some of the Members do not use their full quota of Direct entries, the resulting open Direct entries will be replaced by Preliminary Round entries by increasing the number of Preliminary Round entries (see paragraph 7).
5. Direct entries into the first segment of a Championships:
Out of the Overall Entry Quotas determined according to the criteria/procedure outlined in paragraph 2 above (based on the results of the immediately preceding season’s same Championships) Members earn the right to Direct entries of their Competitors in the first segment for the respective discipline (Short Program for Ladies, Men and Pair Skating respectively Short Dance for Ice Dance) without the need to qualify through the Preliminary Round.
For this purpose Members are listed in the order of their best placed participant in the corresponding discipline of the preceding season’s same Championships. From the Overall Entry Quota a Member gets as many Direct entries as the number of this Member’s Skaters in the top 18 places for Singles, top 12 places for Pairs and top 12 places for Ice Dance (European and Four Continents Figure Skating Championships according to paragraph 4. a) above and top 15 places for Ice Dance (World and World Junior Figure Skating Championships according to paragraph 4. b) above) in the corresponding discipline of the preceding season’s same Championships.
In case the number of Direct Entries obtained this way is less than required, the next listed Member(s) obtain the right for Direct entry until the required number of entries is reached.

There are several reasons for the decline of interest in figure skating (except for the die hard fans). This is one of them, albeit, a minor one. The Sport has become one for the few who can manage all the ins and outs of so many exceptions to the rules and regulations. JMO.

Figure Skating is lucky, it took on music to entertain a dwindling audience at LIVE competitions, but is that enough?

Joesitz said:

There are several reasons for the decline of interest in figure skating (except for the die hard fans). This is one of them, albeit, a minor one. The Sport has become one for the few who can manage all the ins and outs of so many exceptions to the rules and regulations. JMO.

Figure Skating is lucky, it took on music to entertain a dwindling audience at LIVE competitions, but is that enough?

Click to expand...

It seems to keep such a disillusioned and jaded person like you extremely interested and involved.

Thanks, RUKen. Unfortunately, I didn't understand it.:

So let's say the United States qualified two ladies for direct entry by finishing 7th and 9th last year. Under what circumstances would they be allowed to send a third entry to the qualifying round?

Also, does every country get to send someone to the qualifying round, no matter what?

Mathman said:

Can someone post exactly what the new rules are?

Last year it was, come one come all to the short program, top 24 skate the long. If the goal was in part to save money, isn't that a better idea?

Click to expand...

My guess is that getting rid of qualifying rounds completely several years ago was intended to save money by eliminating a day or two of competition, and also to address the discrepancies by having two groups of skaters scored by two different panels of officials, so that it was possible for someone to miss the cut from a stronger group while outskating someone who qualified from the other group. And similar discrepancies up the rankings that could affect overall placements as long as qual scores are factored into the final results.

On the other hand, allowing everyone to advance directly to start with the short program, all scored by the same panel, made for a very long day for those officials, which could affect the accuracy of their judging throughout the field.

So the latest idea is to make some of the skaters have to prove themselves, all in one group, and to exempt others who were most likely to qualify anyway.

It solves some of the problems from the two-qualifying-group process of mid-90s to mid-00s. It does add competition days, but at least those days are not as long and don't need as many officials as when everyone had to qualify. And no more qual scores getting carried over to final results.

But it introduces other problems, as enlight78 details in the original post of this thread. I don't know how long it will last.

The ISU did away with exempting skaters from the qualifying round back in 1997. It doesn't seem fair that, once again, some skaters will have to skate three programs, and others just two.

Mathman said:

So let's say the United States qualified two ladies for direct entry by finishing 7th and 9th last year. Under what circumstances would they be allowed to send a third entry to the qualifying round? Also, does every country get to send someone to the qualifying round, no matter what?

Click to expand...

As I understand it, if the top two American ladies finish 7th and 9th at Worlds, then the US only gets 2 entries to next year's Worlds, and both are direct entries because they had two skaters in the top 18. If the top two American ladies finish 6th and 7th (or anything that adds up to 13 or less), then they'll earn 3 entries for next year, but only two are direct entries because only two skater finished in the top 18 this year. In a year in which the US has 3 ladies competing, and the placements of the top two add up to 13 or less, then they'll earn 3 spots for the next year. If the third place lady has finished in the top 18, then all 3 entries in the subsequent year are direct entries. If the third place lady finishes 19th or worse, then two entries will be direct entries and the third will have to compete in the preliminary round.

Each full member of the ISU gets to send at least one competitor per discipline to Worlds, Junior Worlds, and either the European or Four Continents Championships. (Some new federations in the ISU, I believe, have to go through a probationary period before they can send skaters to these championships.) All federations are not guaranteed entries in the Olympics; these are determined by placements in the previous year's World Championships. Federations that earn 2 or 3 entries in a discipline can send that number to both the Olympics and Worlds, whereas federations that fail to earn more than one placement in a discipline must qualify for an Olympic berth at a fall international (not a Grand Prix event) that is designated as the Olympic qualifier by the ISU. For the 2010 Olympics, the qualifier was the Nebelhorn Trophy in Germany; previously it had been the Karl Schaefer Memorial in Austria and the Golden Spin of Zagreb in Croatia.

RUKen said:

Each full member of the ISU gets to send at least one competitor per discipline to Worlds, Junior Worlds, and either the European or Four Continents Championships.

Click to expand...

In addition to everything RUKen said, as of this year there are now minimum technical elements scores that skaters have to have met in other competitions before they can be entered at Worlds and Euros/4Cs.

So although every member federation has the right to send one competitor per discipline to those events, if they don't have any competitors in a disciplines who have met the minimum score, they can't send anyone in that discipline.

Which can be a problem for skaters who have breakout seasons nationally without previous international experience, for new partnerships that haven't competed together internationally, and for skaters from the southern hemisphere or other isolated countries who would need to travel long distances to nonchampionship international events in hopes of earning the minimum score in addition to traveling long distances to th championships.

^ If a country qualified last year for a direct spot, but then that skater retired, does the new new skater this year have to meet the minimum tech score requirement?

SkateFiguring said:

It seems to keep such a disillusioned and jaded person like you extremely interested and involved.

Click to expand...

Indeed! and so many others but just not enough to get sponsors for TV, and even IN is not showing 4CC, Euros, or Juniors live competitions. Jaded or not, let us enjoy the youtubes of strangers when its possible.

Mathman said:

^ If a country qualified last year for a direct spot, but then that skater retired, does the new new skater this year have to meet the minimum tech score requirement?

Click to expand...

Yes, and it doesn't have to be because of retirement. A skater whose placement qualifies his/her federation for a direct entry is not guaranteed that entry if he/she continues to compete. It is entirely up to the federation to decide whom to send.

While I think making some but not all skaters skate an extra leg of the competition, and basing it on the hugely flawed ISU ranking system is unfair, I don't know if this is the worst thing the ISU has done. They have done so many horrible things. The horror... the horror...