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Ladies - Long Program

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
It's good to know that under this tough panel, Adelina didn't receive and "e" on her Lutz :D I always thought her Lutz was borderline in terms of edge, maybe she worked on that

She definitely should have gotten an "e" on the first Lutz.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I can't wait til Adelina is senior but I still like the age rule. I like to see if it's just as easy or they are just as good when they are skating as a actual lady...a woman. That's just my opinion.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
I can't wait til Adelina is senior but I still like the age rule. I like to see if it's just as easy or they are just as good when they are skating as a actual lady...a woman. That's just my opinion.

Actually I agree with you. Though sometimes these rules are just stupid, like with Adelina, who was born in July, 1st and is too young by about 5 hours (if I remember correctly, she or her coach said it). And if she was born at the same time in, say, the United States, she would be eligible because in the US it was still June, 30.
Anyway, what these girls have now is time. They looked ready to compete at JGP and JW even two years ago when they placed 1st and 2nd at Nationals, but they couldn't, so they used these two years to improve technically and artistically and now are just amazing, well prepared and already experienced junior skaters who are not afraid to compete. I hope it will be the same on the senior stage, they have two more years to improve more and come to the Senior Worlds ready to fight and possibly win
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.

When I saw her I thought she has grown again, so maybe it caused her problems? And I have to ask, what's happening with the axel jumps in Orser's group? Rippon struggled with his 3A whole season and now Christina seems unable to land a clean 2A.
And Orser definitely isn't a miracle worker. When Kim came to him she already had great basics and technique (though he still did a great job as a coach), something Christina lacks, imo
 

oksanafan

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 5, 2011

The ages at the time Mao, Kim, and Adelina won their individual World Juniors were as follows:-

1. Mao Asada (2005) - 14 years 6 months
2. Kim Yu Na (2006) - 15 years 6 months
3. Adelina Sotnikova - 14 years 8 months

Hence, Mao's and Adelina's victories were particularly impressive.

Unfortunately, Mao's career has definitely suffered as a result of her problems with the Lutz. Instead of just leaving it out completely and trying to compensate with the Triple Axel, she should have focused instead on just resolving the problems with the Lutz. Without a Lutz, any FP just looks plain wrong/odd. Hope she gets it right in time for 2014. In hindsight, it would have been better for her career if the ISU had started penalising the Flutz more severely back in 2005. I seem to remember Tara Lipinski flutzed on a number of occasions - most notably in the 1998 Olympic SP. However, she was penalised for it as it definitely reflected in her marks - she finished second behind Kwan in that SP (rectifying matters in the LP to win the Olympic title)

In relation to Lavender's point on the Age Eligibility Rules, I still think they should allow skaters in to seniors a year earlier. Skating careers are very short and Mao lost out on a potential Olympic title as a result of the rules. If she doesn't go on to win the Olympic title in 2014, the fact that she lost out as a result of the rules in 2006 will be viewed as a great injustice. My gut instinct is that she won't win in 2014 - its notoriously difficult to win at the age of 23 going on 24 and only Arakawa has ever accomplished that feat in the entire history of figure skating (and that was only because Cohen messed up her LP with two falls!). Apart from the physical obstacles (injuries having taken their toll, etc), a skater knows its their last chance and that mental burden often becomes too much. Realistically, a skater who avoids injury usually only get two shots at the Olympic title - 3 if they are lucky. Its unfair to deprive them of one opportunity due to artificial age rules
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I wonder if Polina does run throughs. She always looks tire to me towards the end of her programs.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.

I would say Agnes exceeded expectations by repeating her podium finish from last year. Her bronze here was one that was harder to earn than her silver last year (where would Kanako Murakami have placed with the same performance, eh?). After the SP, I thought Agnes was suffering a letdown from going to juniors after competing on the senior level. She really proved her competitive mettle with an exciting FS. She still has to improve her much-criticized SS, but I'm looking forward to seeing if she can crack the top 3 at Nationals next year.

Gao, well, it's disappointing that she didn't medal after being in 3rd after the SP, but I don't think many expected her to win. There was definitely a lot of pre-season hype but that was a long time ago, before the JGPF and all that. She's now 0-3 against Agnes. Since they're both part of the "next generation" of US ladies, it'll be interesting to see if Christina can even that out.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.

Well, out of fairness to Christina, she had to deal with puberty monster this year. She grew so much, like 3 or 4 inches, and filled out, and well she dealt with it pretty well. I mean look what puberty did to Kimmie and Caroline. Even Mirai was a total mess in 08-09 after she had a big growthspurt. So I think her losing to Agnes this season was more just a factor of having to adjust to her new body while Agnes did not, as she went through her big growthspurt in the 08-09 season when she failed to qualify for nationals. About her 2a, she doesn't have great technique on that jump to begin with, and it's probably the jump that was most affected by her body changes where it has a forward entry.

Polina Shelepen is in the same situation as Christina, she grew a lot this season too and that's probably the main reason why she struggled at some competitions. Next season they will move to seniors and have a little less pressure on them, and I expect they will both do well for themselves as they should be more settled into their bodies by then. They are both very talented and I wouldn't count either out. I actually think Christina is better than Agnes and will move ahead of her once she's done with her growing pains. To me, Christina is more expressive and artistic than Agnes, who is a quintessential Tom Z jockette power skater as of right now.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.

I would say that Courtney Hicks exceeded expectations as a lady with no international experience who skated in the first group in the SP, and finished 6th overall in a very strong field.

And Agnes skated a much better LP than she has all year.

Gao? Well, a lot of people have been touting Gao as a wunderkind, but I've never bought it, so her 4th place finish didn't disappoint me. She looks all uncoordinated arms and legs right now. Next year when she's used to her body, she'll look better.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Originally Posted by Tinymavy15
The american ladies, especially Gao failed to live up to expectations. Gao, in order to live up to the hype should won, and certainly not missed the podium. Looks like maybe Orser isn't such a miracle worker after all.

Who had Gao as a favorite. I think its really pushing it to say that in order to be a great coach, you must always have the best team, winning skater etc. A coach is only as good as his/her talent in the end. Good coaches just maximize their students potential. Sometimes you can be the best coach/teacher. But darn it that other coach has an athlete who is just better than your athlete, wants it more etc.

When I saw her I thought she has grown again, so maybe it caused her problems? And I have to ask, what's happening with the axel jumps in Orser's group? Rippon struggled with his 3A whole season and now Christina seems unable to land a clean 2A.
And Orser definitely isn't a miracle worker. When Kim came to him she already had great basics and technique (though he still did a great job as a coach), something Christina lacks, imo

Its not like Adam ever had a consistent triple axel. He struggled with it pre Orser. As for Christina, if you compare Christina to the skater she was pre Orser, Gao really HAS improved. And that's kind of all you can ask from a coach.

This being said I must say that Yu-na's former coaches weren't given enough credit. Yu-na had amazing jumps way before she went to Brian, and good basics too. There were probably a number of coaches that could have made Kim in to a champion. Its not like Orser trained Kim up from a young skater the way Carroll trained up Kwan. I must say that I am impressed with the work Adelina's coach has done with her young skaters. Denis Ten, Elene G, and now Adelina. She doesn't have an Olympic champion yet, but..
 
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lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Orser is still a good coach with or without an Olympic champ. Skaters can luck up on that day and it doesn't mean the coach is or isn't amazing.

Wanted to add that I love Elena as a coach no matter.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Unfortunately, Mao's career has definitely suffered as a result of her problems with the Lutz. Instead of just leaving it out completely and trying to compensate with the Triple Axel, she should have focused instead on just resolving the problems with the Lutz. Without a Lutz, any FP just looks plain wrong/odd. Hope she gets it right in time for 2014. In hindsight, it would have been better for her career if the ISU had started penalising the Flutz more severely back in 2005. I seem to remember Tara Lipinski flutzed on a number of occasions - most notably in the 1998 Olympic SP. However, she was penalised for it as it definitely reflected in her marks - she finished second behind Kwan in that SP (rectifying matters in the LP to win the Olympic title)

But why just put the spotlight on skaters who flutzed. Because if we go by that logic, it's also wrong for skaters to leave out other jumps like the loop, flips, etc. Skaters aren't really rewarded for doing all the triples, so it's no surprise for some to skip on a trouble jump if they could earn points elsewhere.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I think the US ladies all performed well at JW. Having a bronze medal with all three finishing in the top 6 is an excellent result.

For that matter, maybe the US men just missed the podium. But all three finished in the top 7, and that is an excellent result as well.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
The age rules are asinine. Just make it so if the skater is a certain age before the competition they can compete. And if they are so worried about these young girls competing as Seniors then why the hell do they let them do SGP when they are 14 like Caroline Zhang did a few years ago? Or Mao who couldn't compete in Torino or Senior Worlds but won the SGP? They were competing against the older girls so how is that protecting them?
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I agree the rules need to be consistent and if you can't skate in senior worlds then why are you able to skate on the senior gp circuit. However I'm for the age rule when it comes to moving to seniors. I don't know how I feel about the age when it comes to the juniors.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
This being said I must say that Yu-na's former coaches weren't given enough credit. Yu-na had amazing jumps way before she went to Brian, and good basics too. There were probably a number of coaches that could have made Kim in to a champion. Its not like Orser trained Kim up from a young skater the way Carroll trained up Kwan. I must say that I am impressed with the work Adelina's coach has done with her young skaters. Denis Ten, Elene G, and now Adelina. She doesn't have an Olympic champion yet, but..

A little fact it was Peter Oppegard who helped Yuna with the 2A.

Anyway, congrats to Adelina, Liza, and Agnes. :)
 

cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
It's still too early to predict who is going to go through puberty and keep all their jumps intact. The russian girls are impressive, but they still are so physically immature. Both look like they are about eleven. Anyway, time will tell.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I don't think Adelina is that tiny. Liza, yes. But Adelina's significantly taller than her and looks more mature. She's not as tall as Agnes, but few figure skaters are.
 
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