Plushenko seeks amateur status in Olympics bid | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Plushenko seeks amateur status in Olympics bid

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
It hasn't been a distinction of money since 1994 when professional skaters like Boitano and G&G and Witt all came back to skate in Lillehammer. "Professional" is the term used for the retired from competition/tour skaters. Their "profession" is not sport but entertainment. The "competitive/amateur" skaters make money on sponsors and winnings and only "tour" in the off season. It's been this way for over two decades now (Kurt Browning fought his federation way back when in the 80s to be allowed to receive sponsorship money and keep it in a trust fund. Other skaters followed suit. He probably wasn't the first amateur to find that loophole, but he's the only one I know about to reference lol).

Debi Thomas did that too.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Good for Plushenko! He is a very exciting skater. Hope he is doing the right thing for his own body though.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I don't think it will be a problem. As I recall, the original infraction was more a squabble between Plushenko and the Russian federation than with the ISU. IIRC Plushenko's offense was that he skated in some shows without the permission of the Russian federation.

Actually I think that it was ISU which forced RF to withdraw their permisson for Plushenko to skate in those shows, otherwise RF would have had problems with ISU (Russian skaters not allowed to compete in any ISU events).
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
According to Wikipedia, an amateur is someone who pursues a goal without pay. From the above comments, it seems to be just a misnomer and the word 'sanctioned' modifies the word 'competitive'. No problem for me, and would like the word 'amateur' stricken from use.

I believe the argument came up because of the Soviets who permitted their Olympic Teams to be trained by the State giving the athletes all living expenses and not be expected to do outside work on their own. The non Soviet athletes all loved the idea, and hence the true meaning of the word 'amateur' disappeared. This was a boon to Figure Skating for the athletes, coaches and choreographers.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
According to Wikipedia, an amateur is someone who pursues a goal without pay. From the above comments, it seems to be just a misnomer and the word 'sanctioned' modifies the word 'competitive'. No problem for me, and would like the word 'amateur' stricken from use.

I believe the argument came up because of the Soviets who permitted their Olympic Teams to be trained by the State giving the athletes all living expenses and not be expected to do outside work on their own. The non Soviet athletes all loved the idea, and hence the true meaning of the word 'amateur' disappeared. This was a boon to Figure Skating for the athletes, coaches and choreographers.

I highly doubt the ISU/AP are going to change its wording just because wikipedia and the dictionary don't liken the term to what they consider it to be.

(AP meaning Associated Press, considering they refuse to update their cliffnotes book on the skating subject, I doubt they'll change their use of amateur anytime soon)
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I am pretty sure that the ISU does not use the word “amateur” in any of its rules or communications. “Amateur” in the title of this thread is the word used by the AP reporter, not by the ISU.

If you want to see the exact wording about “eligibility” in the ISU Constitution, click here, then on “Constitution and General Regulations 2010 (pdf),” then scroll down to page 83. On page 84 is the exact rule that Plushenko was in violation of.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-153889-171105-nav-list,00.html

In case there is any doubt about why the ISU maintains these eligibility conditions, it’s right here in Rule 102 1 (a) (ii):

the condition of eligibility is made for the adequate protection of the economic and other interests of the ISU, which uses its financial revenues for the administration and development of the ISU sport disciplines and for the support and benefit of the Members and their Skaters.
 
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pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Sure if he wants to come in 11th at the Olympics as an even bigger has been then he was in Vancouver (yeah I know he won silver, but in his prime he would destroy someone like Lysacek) and destroy his already butchered knees to the point he will soon need a wheelchair good for him.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I would really think that well informed posters elsewise, like wallylutz :) would be also informed for ISU rules concerning eligibility, before rushing to these kind of comments which I find unfiar for Russia F and the skater himself. Evgeni lost his eligibility by rule i) (i really wont post paragraphs again) and by that he is allowed to ask for reinstatement whenever he wants. Appeal is another chapter that all athletes, not just skaters have the right to do via CAS, thats a court. Not only Evgeni but any skater not called Evgeni also can ask for reinstatement if they get ineligible by said paragraph. ISU was pretty careful when they announce their decision last season by which rule he is ineligible and all the procedures he is doing now are inside their own communications. Maybe Toni :biggrin: who is worried about ISU reliability can help me find the thread of last year where the rules were posted in details.
Btw we saw Evgeni in Prague this weekend and he was business as usual, training on and off ice before the shows like he was competing. I personally have mixed feelings about all this, cause I saw all the procedure he does before every skate with his knees (like Lambiel last year with his hip) and it is not pleasant at all. But he sounded determined.His new program with Zhulin is really nice. Anyway I was kinda of sad cause audience sees only the other side of the curtain, the glamorous one. Sasha and Surya also skated really injured with doctors waiting for them after show, if you didnt know it you wouldnt think they were injured in their performances.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
^^^^
The Russia today is not the same as the Soviet Russia. Plushenko is still the best male skater there, and he should be representing his country and in his case Himself! I would have Michael Weiss join him if Michael wanted to. I happen to like aging skaters still active in the sport. Too bad Dick's dream of a Senior (age) Division of Competition was negated for the silly Sunday Afternoon shenanigans. I know some people liked them but the public didn't, and after several months, they fell off the radar. Sad, an Annual Event of Aging skaters competing on a Sunday afternoon felled by dress up.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I would really think that well informed posters elsewise, like wallylutz :) would be also informed for ISU rules concerning eligibility, before rushing to these kind of comments which I find unfiar for Russia F and the skater himself. Evgeni lost his eligibility by rule i) (i really wont post paragraphs again) and by that he is allowed to ask for reinstatement whenever he wants. Appeal is another chapter that all athletes, not just skaters have the right to do via CAS, thats a court. Not only Evgeni but any skater not called Evgeni also can ask for reinstatement if they get ineligible by said paragraph. ISU was pretty careful when they announce their decision last season by which rule he is ineligible and all the procedures he is doing now are inside their own communications. Maybe Toni :biggrin: who is worried about ISU reliability can help me find the thread of last year where the rules were posted in details.
Btw we saw Evgeni in Prague this weekend and he was business as usual, training on and off ice before the shows like he was competing. I personally have mixed feelings about all this, cause I saw all the procedure he does before every skate with his knees (like Lambiel last year with his hip) and it is not pleasant at all. But he sounded determined.His new program with Zhulin is really nice. Anyway I was kinda of sad cause audience sees only the other side of the curtain, the glamorous one. Sasha and Surya also skated really injured with doctors waiting for them after show, if you didnt know it you wouldnt think they were injured in their performances.

Thanks for the clarification, Seniorita. And Zhulin did Plushy's new program? Thanks for the link. I love Zhulin's choreography. Remember that great "Summertime" program he did for Kurt? And of course all the programs he did for his now ex-wife Navka.

It's difficult contemplating the damage those guys do to their bodies. The jumps these days are a kind of planned body obsolescence--guaranteed to drum up business for suppliers of artificial joints. But it's Evgeni's decision to continue, and I admire him for it. I do hope he is able to sustain his high level of achievement, but even at lesser strength, he's still an immensely impressive skater, and he always brings something extra to a competition. He's earned his place as an important part of skating history.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Thanks for the clarification, Seniorita. And Zhulin did Plushy's new program? Thanks for the link. I love Zhulin's choreography. Remember that great "Summertime" program he did for Kurt? And of course all the programs he did for his now ex-wife Navka.

He also did Kurt's Aint No Sunshine, which is another fantastic program.
 

Snoopy

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
I hope they reinstate him - it would make for a very exciting men's event. I am all for reinstating any retired or "pro" skaters that would like to make a comeback. In 1994 it was great to see Boitano, Petrenko, Browning, Katarina Witt, etc. in the Olympics.
 

Kitt

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Country
United-States
I hope they reinstate him - it would make for a very exciting men's event. I am all for reinstating any retired or "pro" skaters that would like to make a comeback. In 1994 it was great to see Boitano, Petrenko, Browning, Katarina Witt, etc. in the Olympics.

Yes, but none of them recreated their former glory....
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I hope they reinstate him - it would make for a very exciting men's event. I am all for reinstating any retired or "pro" skaters that would like to make a comeback. In 1994 it was great to see Boitano, Petrenko, Browning, Katarina Witt, etc. in the Olympics.

Well, I can take reinstates for most retired or pro skaters with ease and enthusiasm, but not some, like Yagudin and Kwan. I don't want these two to come back. I don't want to see them being crushed by other skaters. Not that I think Plushenko will be crushed if he comes back. I think if he decides to come back, he'll still be somewhat competitive. Though his goal in Sochi must be changed, such as winning a medal or a top 5 finish should be considered successful. A gold will be out of question.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I hope they reinstate him too. He is such a poor sportsman that it makes it all the more fun to beat him.

Besides Russia has nobody close to Grandpa, even if he is only half the skater that he used to be.

Mishin has some "cool" quotes that clearly demonstrate he is a certifiably NUTS. :)

Here are a couple of Mishin quotes that never fail to make me LOL.

“Russian women are not very good for figure skating. They are good for building rail tracks in Siberia, for example. They are just too strong and big.” :sheesh:

Thankfully this neanderthal is not coaching any American girls :yes:

Here are more words of wisdom from Mishin:

“Maybe Russia doesn't have such rich stores of reserve like before, but hope does not die. Russian skating will survive and thrive. What the West does not understand is that you don't need so much 'talented skaters' as you need smart coaches.

A smart coach can find a good athlete and make him great. In America, there are millions of talented athletes, but still they don't win top medals because they don't know how to make the champions.”

:rofl:

Why does it sound like Mishin is describing Evan and Frank Carroll ??
What a buffoon. :p
 
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sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
There comes a time in life when you have to stay to yourself...It's time to move on....there are some skaters that need to heed this advice.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
I hope they reinstate him too. He is such a poor sportsman that it makes it all the more fun to beat him.

Besides Russia has nobody close to Grandpa, even if he is only half the skater that he used to be.

Mishin has some "cool" quotes that clearly demonstrate he is a certifiably NUTS. :)

Here are a couple of Mishin quotes that never fail to make me LOL.

“Russian women are not very good for figure skating. They are good for building rail tracks in Siberia, for example. They are just too strong and big.”

Thankfully this neanderthal is not coaching any American girls :yes:

Here are more words of wisdom from Mishin:

“Maybe Russia doesn't have such rich stores of reserve like before, but hope does not die. Russian skating will survive and thrive. What the West does not understand is that you don't need so much 'talented skaters' as you need smart coaches.

A smart coach can find a good athlete and make him great. In America, there are millions of talented athletes, but still they don't win top medals because they don't know how to make the champions.”

:rofl:

What a buffoon. :p

I'm sorry but unfortunately not everybody here is American, some of us couldn't care less about Plushenko's image as poor sportsman, Mishin's opinions about Western coaches or the "Cold War mentality" that Mishin and you seem to share. So excuse me if I don't laugh!!!!!:disapp:
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I hope they reinstate him - it would make for a very exciting men's event. I am all for reinstating any retired or "pro" skaters that would like to make a comeback. In 1994 it was great to see Boitano, Petrenko, Browning, Katarina Witt, etc. in the Olympics.

browning wasn't a retired pro coming back, though.

Yes, but none of them recreated their former glory....

despite his craptastique short, Kurt placed 5th - the highest he ever placed at an OG.
 
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