Men's LP

pangtongfan said:

Verner definitely did not deserve the bronze at the 2007 Worlds. He had a fabulous LP but so did Lambiel with much better artistry and spins than Verner. Lambiel had a few mistakes but Verner had a fall too, and both had problems in the short.

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I have to agree with pangtongfan here. Lambiel's debut of Poeta at 2007 Worlds, even with the bobbles, was one of the greatest performances this decade (pity that his SP was such a disaster). Perhaps Art&Sport was thinking of 2009 Worlds?

What an extraordinary competition!! Chan is in a league of his own, but Kozuka is hunting. lol! Well deserved bronze medal. He stepped up while the others faltered. I can't believe Oda. Again he gives his medal away with such a stupid mistake. He should know better by now. I do feel sorry for him though, but one has to learn from mistakes.

BTW, does anyone here remember the when Oda did this sort of mistake before? I mean, which competition? If anyone recalls please tell me

Oh happy day, oh happy day, when Dai said, he would continue...

wonderlen3000 said:

What are Dai chances of getting back to the podium??? He is the oldest one of the trio, and frankly speaking his jumps are going downhill. He no longer has the reliable quad (less than 25%), and his jumps getting <. Too many new juniors, + his three country mates + Chan... unlike women you cannot won a medal with just 6-7 clean triples ...or without quad (now that everyone is attempting and landing)

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Right you are... but if anybody in skating today personifies that elusive quality "heart" being discussed in another long thread in this forum, it's Dai. That quality makes things possible that otherwise would be out of the question. So count me as another who's happy he will continue. I too was touched that he took the blame for the boot problem on himself.

ILoveFigures said:

BTW, does anyone here remember the when Oda did this sort of mistake before? I mean, which competition? If anyone recalls please tell me

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As far as I recall:

2005 Japan Nats - one too many 3Lz (he's already done 3A and 3Lo twice) and he lost the Olympic spot to Daisuke
2006 Worlds - too many combo
2007 Worlds - ditto
2009 Worlds - ditto
2010 Skate America - ditto and he came second to Daisuke
2011 Worlds - too many 3T

I do hope he has learnt lessons this time.

ETA: I felt a bit unfair as it may look like I am picking on Nobu, so...

Daisuke's record, as far as I recall

2006 Olympics - His downgraded 4T was registered as 3T according to the rule then, so his second 3Lz became uncounted
2008 Worlds - too many combo as his second solo 4T was counted as a sequence

Daisuke congratulating Takahiko at backstage; Takahiko asks what happened and Daisuke with smile says the screws came off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD_1mT1MHfQ&feature=player_embedded

mot said:

As far as I recall:

2005 Japan Nats - one too many 3Lz (he's already done 3A and 3Lo twice) and he lost the Olympic spot to Daisuke
2006 Worlds - too many combo
2007 Worlds - ditto
2009 Worlds - ditto
2010 Skate America - ditto and he came second to Daisuke
2011 Worlds - too many 3T

I do hope he has learnt lessons this time.

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If not, I'm fully prepared to fundraise in order to hire people to hold up signs saying "Oda, DON'T DO THE 3T/3Lz/etc" around the arena whenever Oda is skating and he's clearly about to Zayak. It's just mind-boggling how many times he's repeated the same mistake, over and over again.

mot said:

As far as I recall:

2005 Japan Nats - one too many 3Lz (he's already done 3A and 3Lo twice) and he lost the Olympic spot to Daisuke
2006 Worlds - too many combo
2007 Worlds - ditto
2009 Worlds - ditto
2010 Skate America - ditto and he came second to Daisuke
2011 Worlds - too many 3T

I do hope he has learnt lessons this time.

ETA: I felt a bit unfair as it may look like I am picking on Nobu, so...

Daisuke's record, as far as I recall

2006 Olympics - His downgraded 4T was registered as 3T according to the rule then, so his second 3Lz became uncounted
2008 Worlds - too many combo as his second solo 4T was counted as a sequence

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Thank you mot

wonderlen3000 said:

I hope not. Hanyu is still very young only 18 or 19, and still have issue with stigma. Once he grow up a bit and gain more muscle, he can overcome this. Technique wise he is pretty solid and have more eyes catching performance quality than Oda. Definitely on the right track. We don't know if Dai will continue to struggle with injury or if Oda ever learn how to Count... lol

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Actually Hanyu is only 16 y of age. he has PLENTY of time ahead in his career. He will be not even 24 in 2018

Can someone explain why Gachinski´s SS and TR scores can be even higher than Denis Ten's? Even Tracy Wilson commented that Gachinski was slow in between jumps.

herios said:

Actually Hanyu is only 16 y of age. he has PLENTY of time ahead in his career. He will be not even 24 in 2018

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WOW really...though he is a little older than 16. Good for him.... Thanks!!

They say be careful what you wish for because you may get it. I think these were the wishes of the Japanese Men before taking to the ice:

Takahashi: My knee has been the bane of my quads this last two years. I wish for the screw to come out already.

Oda: I have made so many mistake improvising my jump combos. I wish I would stop screwing around and stick to the planned jumps this time no matter what has happened before. (He forgot to wish for his quad and ended up with an extra 3T instead.)

Kozuka: Both Daisuka and Nobu have screwed themselves over and out of the medals. The door is wide open now. I wish to land my first perfect quad of this season and follow it up with a confident and spirited skate.

I've said both Kozuka and Oda had good chances of hitting the most beautiful quads at this Worlds. Kozuka did. If Oda did his quad, there would be no Zayak and his score would have been about 18 points higher. He would have stood on the podium.

My prediction was one Canadian and at least one Japanese, likely two, on the podium. I laughed at jokes and worries about Oda doing an extra combo again but didn't believe it would happen. But the Zayak King found a way again. Sigh.

beep_beep said:

Konspiracy time!!

Amodio was forced to use lyrics because the Russian fed pressured Morozov, so Gachinski would place above him. Same with Oda's three 3T.

This is how Gachinski medalled

(And, please I'm joking, just thought I should warn )
I didn't like his program, but he landed the jumps and the other that could medal screwed up...

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I have a better one. Russian KGB secretly unscrewed Dai's skate and hit Oda's head with a hammer so that he was unable to count during his skate.

Thanks mot – that’s part of the difference then in Brezina’s marks, if he landed quads. Per Plushy's directive: Quads = Manhood, and the ISU embarrassed by the quad controversy, gives the quad more points. Quads are just an extra revolution, not always visible to the eye, unless seen in slo-mo. Too bad that extra revolution has caused so much havoc, injuries and controversy for the sport. IMO, the quad does nothing to help the sport and quite a lot to hurt it. Brezina didn't skate badly, but even with quads, I don't see him as a complete skater. His performance lagged at the end, and overall he did not skate better than Fernandez, Dornbush, or Miner, and not even Joubert. Amodio has more style and is more interesting than Brezina, although I didn't care for Amodio's lp (rap vocals are allowed!?). It's quite obvious the judges favor Brezina (no Czech lobby needed). Gachinski’s rough around the edges, but fun to watch and he has that Russian flair. With quad in arsenal and Plushy in the home arena (and Putin no doubt watching closely) the G meister lands in third. All things equal, I doubt that would have been the case if the event had been held in Japan (minus earthquake).

Brian's costume reminds me of Johnny Weir's Dr. Zhivago outfit -- there were lots of Johnny Weir-inspired outfits in this competition. BJ's performance was poignant to watch. Toward the end, it brought me shivers because his performance was full of determination and brio, and one could feel his love for skating and see how hard he has strived to improve his skating. Bravo, Brian, and thank you for gracing this sport.

OTOH, that shot of Speedy sitting next to Scott Hamilton and mimicking the Japanese contingent's effort to tighten the screws in Dai's errant boot, in time for him to get back out on the ice, was priceless -- and not in a good way either.

Love, love Kosuka. He's absolutely a complete skater, and his style on the ice, in my estimation trumps Patrick's, in spite of Patrick's exquisite blade work and quads. Patrick deserved to win of course, but by 22 points -- ridiculous. The points system is ridiculous altogether of course.

Daisuke did not have good luck here, and yes he is getting older, but I wish for him to come back strong next season. Like Brian, Dai's love for the sport and desire to improve is very evident. Oda loves to jump and apparently could jump all day. He's not a complete skater. Maybe he and Kevin Van der Perren should have a jump shoot-out, and Plushy could reward the winner with one of his gold medals.

Miner and Dornbush performed extremely well and should be very proud of their efforts -- they just weren't viewed as having enough rep, and of course lacked the manly quads. I feel for Ryan -- he did not seem to have the energy and excitement he needed -- and maybe the extra time actually did not serve him well. He's worked on his spins, but they are still fairly weak, and he doesn't have great stretch or line in his skating, but kudos to him and his fans. He should be proud of his Nationals win. I suppose the U.S. Fed gambled by leaving better known and talented veteran, Abbott off the team. He did falter in his lp at Nats, and maybe they were afraid he'd run into the same problems at Worlds. However, leaving Abbott off the team was definitely a gamble. If Abbott was on the team and had performed to his capabilities, he might have placed at least 3rd or 4th and salvaged 3 spots. Perhaps the U.S. feels they can regain 3 spots for the men in time for Sochi. Certainly, Dornbush and Miner are as good or better than some of the men who came ahead of them. Oh, but for the demanding quad … and Lysacek’s quadless Olympic win.

Art&Sport said:

Patrick deserved to win of course, but by 22 points -- ridiculous. The points system is ridiculous altogether of course.

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Chan won by 22 points mainly because of the short program lead. Kozuka was far behind. The scores are NOT ridiculous, and the standings were absolutely fair.

Fair enough ILoveFigures, that's your opinion. My opinion differs. I disagree with the scoring in the sp. Patrick deserved first in sp too, obviously, but he was very generously marked. He skated beautifully, and his quads and blade work are amazing. The judges love throwing high marks when a skater delivers like that. I think PChiddy deserved marks in the 80s (based on this errant scoring system) for his sp, but not 93 -- ridiculous, IMHO.

ILoveFigures said:

Chan won by 22 points mainly because of the short program lead. Kozuka was far behind. The scores are NOT ridiculous, and the standings were absolutely fair.

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Art&Sport failed to realize Kozuka not only didn't have a Quad in his SP, he also erred on his Triple Axel. These two added together give Chan already a 10 points advantage on the Technical mark and we haven't even counted the Components side from the SP yet. When you add things up, I think Art&Sport forgot to take out a calculator and count before using the overly abused word of "ridiculous" = "when something doesn't go my way, it must be wrong".

wallylutz said:

Art&Sport failed to realize Kozuka not only didn't have a Quad in his SP, he also erred on his Triple Axel. These two added together give Chan already a 10 points advantage on the Technical mark and we haven't even counted the Components side from the SP yet. When you add things up, I think Art&Sport forgot to take out a calculator and count before using the overly abused word of "ridiculous" = "when something doesn't go my way, it must be wrong".

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Since there're no falls from Chan for people to criticize, of course, his marks will be the target naturally. I'm just so happy for Chan that this kind of nitpicking doesn't bother me at all.

Congrats to Patrick Chan for smashing three world records!!! It's amazing that all people could see is that, he's over marked. That, to me, is very insulting. Give credit where credit's due.

mot said:

Daisuke congratulating Takahiko at backstage; Takahiko asks what happened and Daisuke with smile says the screws came off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD_1mT1MHfQ&feature=player_embedded

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awww. They are such sweet people. Dai has the best heart, the best personality about everything. I guess they both do. True champions.