Men's LP | Page 45 | Golden Skate

Men's LP

Blades of Passion

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Serious Business said:
However, I maintain that mouthing the lyrics does not. That's not energy intensive, nor does it require much forethought, training or finesse.
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Well, yes, of course. Like I said, the lyrics ruined his program....and you absolutely should not get any kind of extra credit for mouthing lyrics - LOL!

I'm on the fence about the issue of lyrics being allowed or not (more leaning toward NO). They are allowed in Ice Dance and almost every Ice Dance performance I've seen that used lyrics was worse off because of it...and that discipline lends itself more naturally to lyrics than any other discipline. There are a few programs where it worked, though, and that almost makes me want to give the benefit of the doubt to other disciplines being able to use them. At the same time, I shudder at the number of awful programs with lyrics that we'd see and I think in non-Dance disciplines that lyrics could become a crutch. Objectivity would be harder to attain as well because having preference for a vocal or not is such a personal thing.
 
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fscric

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Morning Glory said:
Do you have a link?

I remember Taka's talking about Chan. After TEB 2008, where Chan got gold and Taka got silver, Taka and Chan chattered in their hotel room until midnight, then hotel employee came and asked them not to be noisy. Apparently they are friends.
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Here you go, it's around the 3:30 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVbrvfGbxVg

ETA: I see bibi has provided another link.
 
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bibi24

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Who were the commentators on IN, Universal, CBC TV?

Anyone got copies of those on YouTube? I only have the taped of EuroSport.
 
A

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
wallylutz said:
Your answer is unsatisfactory because it's a personal statement of preference with no evidence to back up your claim. I can't see your thought process at all. How do you show Kozuka is more musical and why does that impact IN? You need to do a lot better than that to convince anyone that your original claim re: 9 points gap is valid as opposed to just whining.

I am not interested in other people's hearsay and figure skating is not a popularity contest. I am interested in your thought process, which I don't have to agree with but I want to see your logic and whether it would stand up under scruitny even if I may disagree with it. There is no right or wrong answer in the judging of figure skating. Until you can provide an explanation based on the rules as to why the gap of 9 points was unjustified, I am afraid I have to treat your comment as a statement of personal preference, nothing more.
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Sounds like Attack of the CoP Drone. What are you, a computer on steroids? Maybe a fan of the movie, Inception, and you've seen it too many times. Fortunately, no one has to take you through their thought process. Scrutinize and calculate till the cows come home, but realize that all of this involves individual perceptions, personal preferences, opinions, and subjectivity. As much as TPTB have tried to make figure skating about numbers, it isn't about numbers or logic. Posters can state what they feel, without the need to back it up or prove anything to you.

All the numbers you seem obsessed by, you should remember are punched in by fallible human beings supposedly following a set of rules, but also governed by their own eyesight, perceptions (limited or otherwise), subjectivity, opinions, and political affiliations. The only pure thing about this sport is the skaters out there on the ice, sometimes making magic, sometimes struggling to contain their nerves, always trying to perform their best.
 
W

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Morning Glory said:
Do you have a link?

I remember Taka's talking about Chan. After TEB 2008, where Chan got gold and Taka got silver, Taka and Chan chattered in their hotel room until midnight, then hotel employee came and asked them not to be noisy. Apparently they are friends.
Click to expand...

It's a friendly rivalry. Even Taka's interview with Japanese media after the competition today, he said numerous times his goal going forward is to aim for the Gold Medal at the World Championship. Even though he didn't call Chan by name, it's pretty obvious he is setting his target on defeating Chan as soon as they meet again next season. That's why Chan cannot let today's win getting into his head because Taka and many other men will try to challenge him for the World Championship title.
 
A

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Coming here to share my opinions for the first time doesn't mean I'm a troll, but that's right, use the Ignore feature. That's great, in fact. Now you at least won't be whining and demanding to hear my thought process, but I suppose you'll continue pressuring others for theirs.

Chan won so his fans should be happy, and not expect that everyone is a fan of his. No one here was tearing Chan down. Some posters simply saying they don't find Chan as expressive to the music as Kozuka is their opinion, not bitching or bashing.

Great that Kozuka is determined to challenge. Chan wishes to dominate, so others need to step up to challenge him. Even Federer had to work harder because of Rafa Nadal.
 
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figuristka

Medalist
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Hopefully people who do not appreciate Chan will be quiet now.

Well done, what a talent he is. How unfortunate for Takahashi though.
 
aftertherain

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Totally random, but did anyone else notice that Takahiko Kozuka's TES (98+) was more than Patrick's (96+)? And his quad toe got +2.29 GOE vs. Patrick's +1.29 GOE. It's definitely Patrick's PCS (91+ vs Kozuka's 82+ and Daisuke's 82+) that sealed the deal for him.

Though, in all honestly, although I'm not a big fan of his program(s), he went out there and skated like a champion. Congrats to him! :)

And congrats to cutie patootie Kozuka for his first-ever world medal win! :):thumbsup:

I'm sad about Daisuke though. Does anyone know if he's retiring after this Worlds? :confused:

Protocols here: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Men_FS_Scores.pdf
 
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fscric

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
figuristka said:
Hopefully people who do not appreciate Chan will be quiet now.
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I guess you have not read through the thread yet, lol. Only in our dreams will that happen, though, admittedly the bitching has been pretty mild compared to before.
 
A

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Blades of Passion said:
The standings of the top 3 were fair but ... Patrick Chan's PCS of 91 is an abomination to the art of figure skating. Having amazing skating skills and putting transitions before jumps doesn't mean you have good choreography or are interpreting the music or are giving an emotionally resonant performance...I would also cite Jeremy Abbott at the 2008 GPF as an example of a note-perfect performance that would have deserved such a high PCS. It was far and away superior in its musicality and originality. Chan's transitions were in fact not as difficult as Abbott's either - let's see Chan do a series of reverse direction turns and then stay on that one foot before going immediately into a breathtaking Triple Axel; or multiple full-body dips in both directions before a Triple Loop. You should also look to Matt Savoie for someone who did painstakingly difficult transitions into jumps and would have deserved 9's for that mark...
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ITA with your entire post, especially the above.

All Chan fans who love his skating should be happy and revel in his win. If the judges had not been so determined to overscore, there would likely be fewer people pointing out that Chan's not perfect. In any case, if you love him, what others think truly shouldn't rain on your parade. Quite fascinating how some fans aren't happy unless everyone is bowing down enraptured with the skater they feel is the best.
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
wallylutz said:
It's a friendly rivalry. Even Taka's interview with Japanese media after the competition today, he said numerous times his goal going forward is to aim for the Gold Medal at the World Championship. Even though he didn't call Chan by name, it's pretty obvious he is setting his target on defeating Chan as soon as they meet again next season. That's why Chan cannot let today's win getting into his head because Taka and many other men will try to challenge him for the World Championship title.
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I think this medal gives Taka a big confidence boost. It's good he's aiming for gold now. Oda, OTOH, must feel really lousy.

Patrick looked really happy for Taka when Taka was receiving his medal.

I don't think Patrick will let this "get into his head" as in laying back. He has sounded cocky channeling The Greats in sports but that's exactly the right winner's attitude, except a figure skater is not supposed to talk like that. But Chan always speaks his mind. Either by nature or by observation and learning, he's adopted a champion's mindset, backed up by disciplined hard work, constant improving and seeking help.

In Mighty Chan unloads to win men’s world title

Starkman writes

Here’s the thing about this personable young man. His statements come across as cocky, but he’s anything but. He’s incredibly sincere, a very smart kid but kind of goofy, and he’s plagued by the same insecurities as the rest of us.
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Chan's level of training costs a lot and Canadian Chinese community raises funds for him each year. With support, from parents, federations, fans, etc. must come a great sense of obligation and pressure. After all the fallings in early seson, he sought Boitano's help for dealing with nerves because, as Boitano said, very few could ever understand the pressure of having a nation's expectation on you. He instinctly knew Patrick's fear of failing and disappointing those who believed in him. His wisdom and advice have helped Patrick a great deal as Patrick acknowledges.

He has learned so much this last year and is putting everything into practice. With such great result, I think he will continue the course. After all, the course, and all the new knowledge and wisdom have been a result of purposeful seeking.
 
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Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I don't know if his PCS should be that high but I don't see how Patrick isn't a musical skater and doesn't interpret his music. He is not the natural performer that Dai is or Lambiel and Yagudin were. But to me he certainly seems to feel his music and interpret it well. Personally, I thought he projected more than Kozuka today. (I know that Kozuka also isn't a masterful projector but just noting that because some people seemed to think the opposite.)

I don't find his Phantom LP the most masterful or original thing I've ever seen but there are intricacies there. Hopefully, he will have a program for the ages one of these days. Something truly memorable and distinctive.
 
Tinymavy15

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I am not really a fan of "Chiddy" but I have to say those were the two best programs put together we have seen in a while. maybe he was overscored. but he was the clear winner. Yu-na was overscored at the olympics, but she was the clear winner so it didn't really matter. same here. I said at the beginning of the season that Chan would do a quad like Weir would do a quad. I was wrong. Chan proved me wrong, and I have to say bravo kid!
 
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