Will Anything Change the Straightline Footwork Segment

Joesitz (RIP) · May 1, 2011

I find it so tiring to watch with that defiant look on skaters faces and the choppy short steps and with hands and arms going like they are in an insane asylumn. Laura Lepisto is about the best one I've seen do one of interest with her flowing stroking.

Not sure how that is scored in the scoring system except possibly in that section on skating skills.

What I would like to see would be a required Serpentine Footwork Segment. That would cover a minimum of choppy steps and Lepisto stroking steps plus the variety of threes, brackets, counters, rockers, and twitzzles. With suitable music, of course. I think it would add a touch to the choreography as well.

Do you agree that the Straightline be changed to Serpentine?

nadster · May 1, 2011

I don't know if a required serpentine sequence would solve the problem as most "straight line" sequences aren't that straight as skaters are exaggerating the edges to make sure the callers give them credit for the more difficult turns.

In fact most straight line sequences almost border on serpentine anyway now.

I do agree most step sequences are labored nowadays. Also most have no relation to the music.

Blades of Passion · May 1, 2011

As I've said ad nauseam:

There needs to be a balance between rewarding footwork that is fast, has a good pattern, and includes difficult steps/turns...the way footwork was back in 2006 is how it should be - during that point in time of CoP there were plenty of excellent footwork sequences which had speed, maintained a distinct pattern, and included a satisfying number of turns/steps to achieve a Level 3 call rather than a million of them. Ever since then the sequences have become more and more busy and ungainly. We need rules that say you receive -GOE if you footwork pattern does not specifically go in a STRAIGHT LINE across the rink, or an actual CIRCLE around the rink, or a clear SERPENTINE.

All footwork sequences should receive the same +GOE values regardless of Level (the "choreography footwork sequence" that was introduced in the LP of the Men's event this season was an unnecessary, lazy attempt to improve things) and even the base values for Step Sequences should be grouped more closely together (except between Level 3 and Level 4, since Level 4 represents something very complex). Competitors should care more about the execution and choreography of the footwork they are doing than the number of turns/steps that must be crammed in irregardless to form and music and choreography.

SkateSkates · May 1, 2011

Blades of Passion said:
As I've said ad nauseam:

There needs to be a balance between rewarding footwork that is fast, has a good pattern, and includes difficult steps/turns...the way footwork was back in 2006 is how it should be - during that point in time of CoP there were plenty of excellent footwork sequences which had speed, maintained a distinct pattern, and included a satisfying number of turns/steps to achieve a Level 3 call rather than a million of them. Ever since then the sequences have become more and more busy and ungainly. We need rules that say you receive -GOE if you footwork pattern does not specifically go in a STRAIGHT LINE across the rink, or an actual CIRCLE around the rink, or a clear SERPENTINE.

All footwork sequences should receive the same +GOE values regardless of Level (the "choreography footwork sequence" that was introduced in the LP of the Men's event this season was an unnecessary, lazy attempt to improve things) and even the base values for Step Sequences should be grouped more closely together (except between Level 3 and Level 4, since Level 4 represents something very complex). Competitors should care more about the execution and choreography of the footwork they are doing than the number of turns/steps that must be crammed in irregardless to form and music and choreography.

Exactly! The best examples include Sasha and Lambiel. Sasha probably carried the most speed in her footwork than anywhere else in her program, and Lambiel looks good doing anything...

Joesitz (RIP) · May 2, 2011

But the point of the thread is demanding a Serpentine pattern of steps. This would force the skater to perform all edges and all turns in both directions, and show some Flow while doing it.

mskater93 · May 2, 2011

Joesitz said:
But the point of the thread is demanding a Serpentine pattern of steps. This would force the skater to perform all edges and all turns in both directions, and show some Flow while doing it.

The point everyone is making above is that the SlStSeq borders on a SeStSeq now! The problem is the rules to get the highest levels on the non-choreographic sequence. I bemoan this all the time when working on mine.

To get range of motion bullet you need to look like you are having a seizure. (That's what appears to look like and what it feels like when you work on it!) That wouldn't change no matter straight line, serpentine, or circular.

To get complexity of steps and turns the requirement for the number of DIFFERENT turns and step types is really crazy - you have to do just about every type of turn (three, bracket, rocker, counter, loop, twizzle) 2x each and every recognizable type of step (mohawk, choctaw, toe step/turn, chasse) 2x each. Basically you almost have to be labored, slow and meander around the rink to meet this requirement as there's going to be some turn/direction combination that you just aren't good at as a skater.

I understand the rule is intended to make it more "technical" but really, it just looks awful.

janetfan · May 2, 2011

mskater93 said:
The point everyone is making above is that the SlStSeq borders on a SeStSeq now! The problem is the rules to get the highest levels on the non-choreographic sequence. I bemoan this all the time when working on mine.

To get range of motion bullet you need to look like you are having a seizure. (That's what appears to look like and what it feels like when you work on it!) That wouldn't change no matter straight line, serpentine, or circular.

To get complexity of steps and turns the requirement for the number of DIFFERENT turns and step types is really crazy - you have to do just about every type of turn (three, bracket, rocker, counter, loop, twizzle) 2x each and every recognizable type of step (mohawk, choctaw, toe step/turn, chasse) 2x each. Basically you almost have to be labored, slow and meander around the rink to meet this requirement as there's going to be some turn/direction combination that you just aren't good at as a skater.

I understand the rule is intended to make it more "technical" but really, it just looks awful.

This program had a step sequence that I enjoyed. She is interpreting the music and this could have been even better if she didn't have to try and fulfill so many requirements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GxtQIg1pjM

I agree with mskater that most step sequences look awful.

Mathman · May 2, 2011

I think that one improvement would be to remove the bullet about "working the upper body."

Joesitz (RIP) · May 2, 2011

Mathman said:
I think that one improvement would be to remove the bullet about "working the upper body."

I think that would help when one thinks of the title "Step Sequence", it should be all about the footwork and it should show skating basics clearly and not take our minds off the feet for the meaningless defiant face looks and the wild and furious arm movments. As it is performed by the skaters, they all look alike going up the center of the arena and ending with a flying camel. Nothing original emerges.

mskater93 · May 3, 2011

Mathman said:
I think that one improvement would be to remove the bullet about "working the upper body."

What, you don't like footwork that looks like the skater is either having a seizure or is choking on something? :biggrin:

The concept behind it was to be able to show control of the various steps and turns while not being exactly square up and down over your skating leg and to avoid the deliberateness. From what I understand, they were trying to reward the body motion in a program like Yagudin's Winter program which was really quite interesting and instead made, well...:scowl:

Mathman · May 3, 2011

I get the feeling that skaters and coaches do not want to take a chance that they will do something so subtly that the judges might miss it. So if the rule says you get a point for touching your blade to your nose they make an exaggerated effort to show the judges, "look -- here is my nose. Do you see it? Now here is my blade."

mskater93 · May 3, 2011

Mathman said:
I get the feeling that skaters and coaches do not want to take a chance that they will do something so subtly that the judges might miss it. So if the rule says you get a point for touching your blade to your nose they make an exaggerated effort to show the judges, "look -- here is my nose. Do you see it? Now here is my blade."

And that is the crux of the situation. Skaters are told, for example, a spin position doesn't count unless there are two revs in position. However, that means 2 revs from the camera angle of the video guy that the tech panel will use to review. Also, that means that the position has to be established first, which to most tech panel people/judges means you "stop figetting" which takes about a rev, so most coaches, to be on the safe side, have their skaters hold that spin position for 4 revs. The minimum was two...

Joesitz (RIP) · May 3, 2011

Mathman said:
I get the feeling that skaters and coaches do not want to take a chance that they will do something so subtly that the judges might miss it. So if the rule says you get a point for touching your blade to your nose they make an exaggerated effort to show the judges, "look -- here is my nose. Do you see it? Now here is my blade."

Then I question the ability of judging the sequence. Does the Tech Panel have anything to do with this horror?

Can you name at least one skater who is different than another? and what is it that it is better than another (not by opinion, please, you are rule man.)
The Top Tier skaters are all Senior skaters and questioning their basics should not even be considered.

SamuraiKike · May 3, 2011

I always feel like im in a very small minority who truly enjoys COP step sequences, specially when I watch old programs and sometimes I feel like:"Wait was that a step sequence, it felt more like a comobo of transitions and If I blink I would miss it". I think they were at its peak in the 2008 season with all the top men having aweseome sequences (Lambiel, takahashi, Verner, Buttle, even Joubert) and each one different from the other. I actually appreciate greatly how complex they look now and how hard they must be to be executed properly.

That being said, I do agree they are becoming over the top and the straight line sequence has become a monster who refuses to follow its pattern. :laugh:

-GOE for a not clear pattern is a good idea and musicality should be weighted more for the +GOE even though thats already covered in the PCS scoring.

ImaginaryPogue · May 3, 2011

Yeah, I LOVE COP step sequences. Lambiel in "Poeta," Dai in "Swan Lake," Chan in... anything really. A well executed step sequence is probably my favourite figure skating move.

Mathman · May 3, 2011

SamuraiKike said:
I always feel like im in a very small minority who truly enjoys COP step sequences, specially when I watch old programs and sometimes I feel like:"Wait was that a step sequence, it felt more like a comobo of transitions and If I blink I would miss it"...

That is very interesting, because my reaction is exactly the opposite. I liked those pre-CoP step sequences (Yagdin's Winter, Kwan's Aranjuez) that seemed to be part of the choreography. In the CoP the skater is expected to come to a complete stop. Stand around until he is sure that he has the attention of the tech panel and the judges, then announce to the world, "OK, everybody, now I am going to do my step sequence.".

What follows next often has nothing to do with the music or the program. Just like a quad toe is a quad toe -- you can't do a quad toe first in the style of a tango, and then next time do a quad toe as Prince Igor would do it -- the step sequences, too, are usually not tailored to the choreography.

I giuess that is the point of the new "choreography step sequence" and the "choreography spiral sequence" for ladies.

evangeline · May 3, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
Yeah, I LOVE COP step sequences. Lambiel in "Poeta," Dai in "Swan Lake," Chan in... anything really. A well executed step sequence is probably my favourite figure skating move.

I agree when it comes to the men, but I feel pairs and ladies have a loooong way to go when it comes to step sequences. I can't think of a single truly memorable CoP step sequence when it comes to pairs or ladies.

ImaginaryPogue · May 3, 2011

Akiko Suzuki, West Side Story
Yu Na Kim, Danse Macabre

Dube/Davison, The Blower's Daughter (at worlds)

Lilith11 · May 3, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
Akiko Suzuki, West Side Story
Yu Na Kim, Danse Macabre

Dube/Davison, The Blower's Daughter (at worlds)

Heartily agree w/the bolded, Akiko especially; I could just watch her all day to step sequneces and nothing else <3 I'd also like to add "Lark Ascending" and "Tango de Roxanne", Mao's Liebestraum (love, LOVE how soft, fluid, and balletic all her movements are), Mirai's Pirates footwork (so joyful!) and of course, Carolina Kostner's footwork at this year's worlds. Just divine <3

mskater93 · May 4, 2011

SamuraiKike said:
II actually appreciate greatly how complex they look now and how hard they must be to be executed properly.

You appreciate how complex they look? That is diametrically opposed to what figure skating is supposed to be, though. What is hard is supposed to look EASY/effortless. This is where I truly struggle with IJS leveled step sequences.

Will Anything Change the Straightline Footwork Segment

Joesitz (RIP)

nadster

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

SkateSkates

Joesitz (RIP)

mskater93

janetfan

Match Penalty

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

mskater93

Mathman

mskater93

Joesitz (RIP)

SamuraiKike

ImaginaryPogue

Mathman

evangeline

ImaginaryPogue

Lilith11

mskater93

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