It sounds like Zhulin was trying to avoid being "blamed" for I/K's poor showing. :disapp:
Saving his skin at the expense of his "star" pupils...:think: Yeah, I wouldn't want to be his student if I were I/K.
Ilinykh & Katsalapov switch coaches
- Thread starter Ptichka
- Start date
It sounds like Zhulin was trying to avoid being "blamed" for I/K's poor showing. :disapp:
Saving his skin at the expense of his "star" pupils...:think: Yeah, I wouldn't want to be his student if I were I/K.
They were not his "star" pupils. Nathalie and Fabian were.
In terms of the world ranking, I agree. I/K, however, were very much "hyped" as the future Russina stars. In any case, I still wouldn't want to stick around with Zhulin, though. I keep thinking just how tense and judgemental Zhulin's facial expressions were at the 2011 worlds in constrast to very relaxed and supportive expressions of Zueva/Shpillband.
You could argue that Zhulin looked angry because both of his teams had major blunders. I'd say it's the other way around. Z/S's students did better presicely because they felt their coache's support and acceptance. It's just my humble opinion.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
That is my first thought also 100% . I had read this interview of Zhulin via google, and it was the same reason I didnt like neither him for what he said neither what Carol had said about Mirai after Worlds. I dont like the use of media to pass 'messages' to your students, the next step is to talk them via twitter? if anything else the relationship between coach and athlete should be direct and simple.
What about Maxim Stavinski(spell?)? He has excellent technique and ideas. I hope they can stay with Zhulin. But if they want to change, hopefully they get improved.
Wasn't it during an I/K fluff, Elena's mother said U/Z was her favorite team? I don't remember where the link is now but it was not long before World.
On FSU, a lot of posters said Morozov did bad programs. Did he create P/T's SP (Pearl Fisher or something) that everyone enjoyed?
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
I don't find this coaching change too surprising. Ilinykh/Katsalapov just didn't have a good showing at all at Worlds. Their performances in no way justified the hype around this team. I was really kind of shocked by how poorly they skated in the long program--so many mistakes and missed connections. And their programs--both of them--just obviously lacked the technical difficulty of almost all the other teams in the top 10. Good looks and attitude only carry you so far in this new COP era. I found myself wondering: Did Zhulin do them a disservice by giving them bad programs, or did he plan the programs that way because he felt they weren't technically capable of anything more? Their shaky performance in the long would tend to support the latter. Will be interesting to see if Morozov can do anything more with them. Based on the recent Volosozhar/Trankov interview, it does sound like Morozov is good at teaching the basics, which might be what I/K need.
Thank you. You just summed up exactly how I feel about this team. People here tend to attribute too much value to the diva attitude, while this is a sport first and foremost and what primarily counts should be what the athletes do from waist down.
I/K are a good team, did very well in juniors, but will need a lot of work to translate into the same results in the senior ranks.
The timeframe to complete the improvement might require many years from here on, most likely more than the time left before Sochi.
To have the illusion that such a relatively new team like I/K can close the gap compared with V/M or D/W who were dancing together for almost a decade before moving to seniors is really naive.
And for my taste, Bobrova / Soloviev are better positioned to have to have better results comes Sochi as they are very well matched and work together for much longer, plus there is a maturity in their skating, which in I/K case is not there yet.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
You forgot about Euros. They skated much better there and got high levels and total scores for their FD. One bad perfomance doesn't mean something was wrong with difficulty or their ability to skate this program (and they actually were good in SD at Worlds too, level 4 for both golden waltz sequences and levels 4 and 3 for other elements). Maybe something was wrong with their preparation for Worlds, maybe it was just a bad luck. But to say their programs are not difficult enough or I/K don't have decent basics to skate it is wrong, IMO
Well I/K or B/S do have to be at the level of medaling at worlds next year and if either don't medal than the whole idea of a Russian team medaling in Sochi is over. The whole point of these teams right now is to be ready to medal at Sochi-not even medal but win. Since neither team won a medal or come close to medaling this year both need radical overhaul. Seems like I/K is the team taking that seriously. The goal is absolutely not 2018.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
-
That's not quite true. D&W won a silver medal at Vancouver without ever winning a World medal before. They finished 4th at L.A. Worlds 2009, their best Worlds finish at that point.
In their first Worlds after Juniors, D&W finished 7th...just like I&K. V&M finished 6th. Clearly I&K have to work hard in the next 3 years, but finishing 7th in your first Worlds is nothing to sniff at. Unfortunately for I&K, the Shibs just got the bronze in their first Worlds, a team they had beaten the year before. Dwelling on this comparison is unfair to I&K, because last year the Shibs had a huge size mismatch. Alex had grown and Maia hadn't. Plus siblings doing the tango is not a good match. This year Maia had grown and they had programs that were a good match for their strengths.. This year, I&K's programs did them no favors. It happens. But it was still a respectable Worlds debut. And their Europeans' performance was superior to their Worlds performance.
In their first Worlds after Juniors, D&W finished 7th...just like I&K. V&M finished 6th. Clearly I&K have to work hard in the next 3 years, but finishing 7th in your first Worlds is nothing to sniff at. Unfortunately for I&K, the Shibs just got the bronze in their first Worlds, a team they had beaten the year before. Dwelling on this comparison is unfair to I&K, because last year the Shibs had a huge size mismatch. Alex had grown and Maia hadn't. Plus siblings doing the tango is not a good match. This year Maia had grown and they had programs that were a good match for their strengths.. This year, I&K's programs did them no favors. It happens. But it was still a respectable Worlds debut. And their Europeans' performance was superior to their Worlds performance.
There are a lot of differences that made D&W placement less horrible than I/K's. If you are looking at it by country you had Bebin and Agosto doing well and for V&M you had D/L. It's not like Russia had something like the US or Canada in 2007 in 2011. And even in 2011 two teams from the US made the podium so that didn't even hurt the Shibutani's like it might have in 2007. I/K were 7th and B/S were 6th. The field was wide open and the combination of people saying I/K's programs were terrible and their own mistakes took them out of the running. So changes in everything were necessary and they can't be seen as having done well.
I don't understand your logic re: I/K's placement. The 7th is nothing to feel defensive about. If anything else, Russian federation's overhyping I/K, together with an unexpected home country worlds, did not necessarily do favor to I/K.
I/K are very talented team, just like the Shibs and P/I of Canada. I just wish all these teams continue to grow and thrill us fans with excellent programs.
I/K are very talented team, just like the Shibs and P/I of Canada. I just wish all these teams continue to grow and thrill us fans with excellent programs.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
-
^^^^^^^^^
This.
That's my hope, too.
This.
That's my hope, too.
This season show, that was hard for I-K to skate senior FD yet. And there lifts wasnt good too.
With Morozov they will improve there physical conditions and could safe speed during all FD, made lifts look easy. That what this team need to do now. So Morozov could help them with this at this point. In the future they could work with more creative choreographer and will take gold in Sochi
With Morozov they will improve there physical conditions and could safe speed during all FD, made lifts look easy. That what this team need to do now. So Morozov could help them with this at this point. In the future they could work with more creative choreographer and will take gold in Sochi
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
-
They have a great chance so long as they can avoid having Tarasova tinkering with their Olympic programs, as she did with K&N last year.
7th for first outing at worlds is a very good result. A top 10 before COP era was usually considered very, very good. Eeven Torvill and Dean debuted outside of top 10.
COP made it much easier to come in your first world higher, as protocols don't factor in that much in this system as they used to do.
So I/K should be content with what they have accomplished and look at where they have to improve.
If some of their fans think they can reach the V/M, and D/W level, in one or two years, then they should think twice. Again, such a long partnership of hard working and also very talented athletes, is hard to overcome by a relatively new team, no matter how talented they are.
First of all, Shibs won bronz at there first senior WCh. I think they made a new history. Who else took medal at WCh in 16 at first trip to Worlds?
So i think in two years this could be team hard to overcome, if they have such a high results in so young age.
So I-K first of all must to try be close to the Shibs. And only after that they will have a chance to take medals at WChs and gold at OG 2014. All could be, but all depend from there health, how hard they will work, and how fate will be kind with them
So i think in two years this could be team hard to overcome, if they have such a high results in so young age.
So I-K first of all must to try be close to the Shibs. And only after that they will have a chance to take medals at WChs and gold at OG 2014. All could be, but all depend from there health, how hard they will work, and how fate will be kind with them
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
I could only say, that in SD they had very greate speed at WCh, but at the end maybe they lost it a little, but speed look really impressive.
But in FD - they didnt show speed, powewr and lifts. Thats why i said they need to work on physical condition.
At CoR it was the same - they could show clean FD.
But we talking about very yuong team - they will have all this during the time
