Japan Open | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Japan Open

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
1. I didn't mind Miki's program, actually. It's not a thriller or anything, but I can imagine it being quite beautiful if skated clean with passion.

2. Amodio... whoa. Okay, now I'm convinced that Morosov's goal is to ensure that there's no French man on the podium by Sochi, because this program will set him back MASSIVELY.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
2. Amodio... whoa. Okay, now I'm convinced that Morosov's goal is to ensure that there's no French man on the podium by Sochi, because this program will set him back MASSIVELY.

Maybe Morozov didn't count on Amodio's participation in JO and getting early feedback. Maybe now Amodio realizes something has to change with the massive negative reactions he receives. Maybe he has the same rebellious mindset as at Worlds 2011 and will stick up a finger to all. :confused2:
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I just saw the Amodio program and I wish someone had warned me.

What worries me is that he seems to like it, thats scary. He has personality and attitude that i ike and I dont want to see him skate to Rachmaninof but that been said it is hard to believe this is not to be a cheesy exhibition, a bad one actually. Maye it is NOT his actual long? I deny to think i ll be watching this program the whole season.
I'm sorry dear. I should have said something. A friend of ours also tried to watch JO stuff and pretty much gave up on the whole thing after seeing what Amodio was up to! :biggrin:

Amodio... whoa. Okay, now I'm convinced that Morosov's goal is to ensure that there's no French man on the podium by Sochi, because this program will set him back MASSIVELY.
Strangely, I wouldn't put it past Morozov - maybe not the conspiratorial stuff, but working with a skater and knowing his programs are not going to do him any favors. He's choreographed for Joubert in the past and in 2006, he told a reporter shortly before the games that Brian would not do well at the Olympics (source). One would think that he'd try and help a skater in that situation and make sure he had a program that would work for him, right? Whether by making necessary changes or by reviving an old program (as Joubert eventually did, but too late). But he didn't. Can't say I'm impressed with that sort of approach. He encouraged Amodio to skate to music with lyrics at Worlds, which was stupid, pointless, and likely won't do him any favors in the long-term. And now this.

But it's also very possible that Morozov just has poor taste, as can be seen from many of the programs he's choreographed. It's not like the Russian skaters he has are getting great material. Conceptually, Amodio's program reminds me a bit of the crap he had Javier Fernandez skating last season. Javi wised up and left; maybe Florent will, too? Because Amodio is such a talent, and he needs a choreographer who will play to his strengths; instead Morozov has given him a paint by numbers SP (Once Upon a Time in Mexico), a stop and pose LP (Michael Jackson) and now this tacky mess. Florent can do much better, as we saw in the Olympic year. He needs to be rescued before Morozov wrecks his competitive career.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
2. Amodio... whoa. Okay, now I'm convinced that Morosov's goal is to ensure that there's no French man on the podium by Sochi, because this program will set him back MASSIVELY.

me too. It must be RF conspiracy along with Morosov to destroy every opponent by Sochi!:laugh: (joke)

Actually while I didnt like much his programs last season (the sp had such ugly costume I couldnt like it and the Lp..I had MJ overdose last year), but I didnt mind them, they were different from the olympic season, showed Amodio had another side, the showman blah blah, he became more confident and stable,so now he managed all that last year and his season went very well, what the point of making a similar program again but much much worse?? I dont want everybody to skate to serious kind of programs, but thats shocking wrong.

Plus his sp for Leonova is a bad recycle of Javier's. If i were her I would ask my money back.
 

LuCN

Rinkside
Joined
May 3, 2011
I have to say,after watch all the videos several times,my favourite is Jeff's...although his jumps are poor....

I expect more from Daisuka,he choose a style not very "him",but a bit jeffrey buttle or lambiel are good at,now it not very good,but it may become a masterpiece :)

for Chan,I love his costume cause I love spanish costumes,it remains me lambiel's Poeta and Joubert's Malaguena. the program need to be polished,his performance need to be learn more and of course the tech part. one thing I'm happy that his movement,especially his arm and hands pose become more softer,much better than before.I once thought he use this kind of music will be a disaster,but now it seems so so.

Gachinsky's LP seems not that good compare to the russian test skate...maybe just for me...

I'm a little dissapointed for Kozuka's new LP...and amodio..I think I won't pay attention to him until he leaves Morozov....

Did Hanyu perform 2 programs or one? Does anyone have a full clip of his programs at COI? I can only find a cut one on youtube. Thanks :D
I think it may just be me, but I think Tut exists her jumps a bit weird like she tilts forward or something. Other than that she was great.

seems COI 10.2's broadcast not fullversion,maybe we should wait for 10.23's BS version~
 
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skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
My suggestions for Takahiko Kozuka:

1. He should ditch his new LP. The beginning slow part was actually not bad, but as the music turned faster and the beats clearer, he was "exposed" for lacking a dance-like feel the music gave. He became disconnected with the music, and his movements turned awkward. I don't think there is a quick fix for him. If he is aiming for a medal in this year's World Championships, he needs to ditch that program immediately and go back to last season's LP that had worked wonders for him, that is champion-worthy, and that could potentially beat Chan if he has a bad skate. If Chan can keep his wonderful Take-Five, why can't Kozuka keep his beautiful Liszt Piano Concerto? Minor changes can be made to his Liszt program to improve PCS and other scoring potentials.
2. For his competition programs, he should never pick music that has obvious rhythm or beats like Soul Man (last year's SP). Bad, bad choice. Hasn't he realized that his PCS goes down as the beats get clearer? He should pick something that showcases his soft, light, smooth, somewhat naturally lyrical qualities in his skate.

Bad choice of music. What a waste of his medal potential!
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
My suggestions for Takahiko Kozuka:

1. He should ditch his new LP. The beginning slow part was actually not bad, but as the music turned faster and the beats clearer, he was "exposed" for lacking a dance-like feel the music gave. He became disconnected with the music, and his movements turned awkward. I don't think there is a quick fix for him. If he is aiming for a medal in this year's World Championships, he needs to ditch that program immediately and goes back to last season's LP that had worked wonders for him, that is champion-worthy, and that could potentially beat Chan if he has a bad skate. If Chan can keep his wonderful Take-Five, why can't Kozuka keep his beautiful Liszt Piano Concerto? Minor changes can be made to his Liszt program to improve PCS and other scoring potentials.
2. For his competition programs, he should never pick music that has obvious rhythm or beats like Soul Man (last year's SP). Bad, bad choice. Hasn't he realized that his PCS goes down as the beats get clearer? He should pick something that showcases his soft, light, smooth, somewhat naturally lyrical qualities in his skate.

Bad choice of music. What a waste of his medal potential!
Basically what you're suggesting is that Kozuka specifically, and skaters in general, should stick to a narrow artistic range, avoid pushing themselves to trying new forms of musical expression, and take as few risks on the artistic side as possible - basically, find a program that works and stick with it, or get new programs as similar to it as possible. And concern themselves mostly with getting points and not in becoming better skaters.

Well, then. I think that's a recipe for some very boring skating. I'd rather see an interesting failure than people coming out and doing the same thing over and over again.

p.s. Kozuka at his best should be able to beat Chan even without the latter having a bad skate.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Basically what you're suggesting is that Kozuka specifically, and skaters in general, should stick to a narrow artistic range, avoid pushing themselves to trying new forms of musical expression, and take as few risks on the artistic side as possible - basically, find a program that works and stick with it, or get new programs as similar to it as possible. And concern themselves mostly with getting points and not in becoming better skaters.

Kozuka specifically, but not skaters in general.

Different skaters have different priorities or goals, so there will always be different strategies--never get boring!!! For skaters like Brian Jubert and Evgeni Plushenko who had won the gold, and for intermediate or new-to-the-scene skaters that are still trying to find their own styles, experimenting various music shall be encouraged.

I would like to see Kozuka win a gold medal some day, so I wish his priority is to WIN. He certainly can and should explore other music with his exhibition programs (but not his competitive programs).

My post explicitly stated "My suggestions for Kozuka", so there is no need for you to overgeneralize it to "skaters in general".
 
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fscric

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
p.s. Kozuka at his best should be able to beat Chan even without the latter having a bad skate.

I'm not saying it won't happen as I rate Kozuka to be a very good skater and he sure has the ability to beat Chan, but wasn't Kozuka at his best in his last World LP?
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Oh, I was exagerrating the conspiracy stuff, but the program is just so obviously bad. Not divisive, not Nichol-boring-but-high-points-anyway, but just a poorly put together program. That interview Morosov gave where he stated he basically tossed Mikis' program together in a couple days, knowing if she hit the jumps she would win.... well, Amodio doesn't have that kind of advantage, and he's made it more likely he wouldn't hit all the jumps (see how many he doubled/singled here). It's interesting to note that gmyers assumed Lysacek would take the strategy of backloaded six jumping passes in order to avoid the quad. I pointed out that's something Morosov would do, and while Amodio didn't avoid the quad (good on him for going for it here) I have to say I feel somewhat vindicated.

re: Fernandez - he left because he felt Amodio was getting all of the attention. It'll be interesting to see if Amodio follows suit if Voronov/Leonova/V-T/I-K start to dominate that scene. I doubt it.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Kozuka specifically, but not skaters in general.

Different skaters have different priorities or goals, so there will always be different strategies--never get boring!!! For skaters like Brian Jubert and Evgeni Plushenko who had won the gold, and for intermediate or new-to-the-scene skaters that are still trying to find their own styles, experimenting various music shall be encouraged.
So following that logic, you would support Patrick Chan trying new things and taking the unprecedented step of having two new programs in a season? Because you may have meant just Kozuka, but you certainly referred to Chan's tendency to keep programs as a good approach. Now, I for one would be vastly entertained if he were to do a techno program... :p No? Too much? Okay, I for one will be very happy if he has Kurt choreograph a competition program for him. Or Jeffrey Buttle. Or Shae-Lynn Bourne. Really, anyone other than Lori Nichol.

Okay, and other than Morozov, because seeing Patrick mugging to Besame Mucho in tiger stripes would be more than I could deal with.

I'm not saying it won't happen as I rate Kozuka to be a very good skater and he sure has the ability to beat Chan, but wasn't Kozuka at his best in his last World LP?
My point exactly - thus the "should". Takahiko should have won the LP. The scoring was more reputation-driven in that case than performance-driven.

re: Fernandez - he left because he felt Amodio was getting all of the attention. It'll be interesting to see if Amodio follows suit if Voronov/Leonova/V-T/I-K start to dominate that scene. I doubt it.
I know, and I think Morozov may be focusing more on the Russians than on Florent right now. The decision may not be Florent's, in the end: if his results end up taking a dive with this program, I bet the FFSG will ship him elsewhere real fast. Unlike Brian Joubert, who's near retirement and who has earned the right to do whatever he wants, Florent is at an earlier stage in his career and his federation likely has more control over his career.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
So following that logic, you would support Patrick Chan trying new things and taking the unprecedented step of having two new programs in a season? Because you may have meant just Kozuka, but you certainly referred to Chan's tendency to keep programs as a good approach.

I never said categorically "Keeping old programs is a good approach for everyone". Again, each individual has their own limitations, strength, considerations, situations.... Don't overgeneralize again.

Patrick Chan is a world champion now, so YES I would expect more from him. As you might have read it in other posts, I criticized his emoting skill, which he needs in order to be the greatest skater ever (though he might not need it to win another gold). Will I support Chan in trying new things? Of course. However, I also support Chan's decision of not having a new SP this season because he is trying to add a 4S, to improve his arm movements......


Did you just wake up, Buttercup? You seem grouchy or argumentative today, quite unusual. Get a cup of coffee or something (Don't put butter. You got too much in your cup already).
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
^Since it is an opinion, and not a fact, it is always subjective anyway. And it is usually our opinion that we write on a forum. Buttercup aways backs them up really well. And if I agree with her about Worlds lp, then we have two subjective opinions:p
Btw maybe Takahiko also looks to improve something or add an element to his program, how do we know he doesnt?Many skaters do, but somehow most of them change both their programs every season. Although i dont mind if someone keeps a program.

ImagineryPogue i know you did joke on the conspiracy part, I just took this and made my joke:)
Interesting that Amodio did the 4S?( I dont remember if it was 4t or 4s, i blame the costume) and then popped and doubled I dont know how many jumps. I didnt notice he put 6 passes on the second half, there it is the well balanced program ooCoP was looking for. Normally I would look the program again cause I m curious how he put 6 passes there, but no.
Have V/T moved to Morosov and I missed it somehow?I thought he did the choreo for them for one (or two?) programs.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Skatinginbc - I get what you're getting at, thanks for clarifying. I just find it frustrating to see so little risk-taking on the artistic side of skating these days, and a small number of choreographers doing so many of the programs. Skating is becoming dull. As I wrote, I'd rather see skaters try different things and occasionally fail (P/B in ice dance are a good example of skaters who have taken this approach). I'm happy to see more quads, but skating can't just be about the tech, and I feel that between the way difficulty on TES is being upped and the way the second mark is also very technical these days (SS and TR are really technical components), artistic expression is not emphasized enough.

I don't like coffee; coffee-free B is the only version you'll come across here. ;)

It is nothing more than your subjective opinion.
Well, mine and that of many people. You do realize that people will express subjective opinions in a discussion forum, and that it's kind of the whole point, right? Skating, after all, is nowhere near 100% objective, and and the judges don't always get it right.
 
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Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010

Fell in love with this program in the first 5 seconds. Despite the falls, Chan has truly carved and refined his movements to the finger tips. It gave me chill and reminded me of Shen/Zhao, of their artistic beauty in their programs. It made a huge contrast from Take Five SP which he's keeping from last season. And shows a vast range of skills. Great choice! Can't wait to see this program in the GP events!

Always loved Buttle. But that tight body suit which has shown his big tummy wasn't flattering him one bit.

Gachinski, the Plushenko+Abt clone, was fine. But the blackish music made me a little depressed. I'm looking for beautiful, calm, steady, sunnyside up things these days. So didn't like it.:biggrin:
 
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kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I finally watched Chan's program and...meh. I'm much less than impressed. :sheesh: The way some people were talking about it, I was expecting a lot more. It was a little...boring. Can I say that? :unsure: I was expecting some big climatic moment and it never came...IDK, I expected it to be a lot more than what it was...serves me right for trying to put expectations on skating nowadays. :disapp:

The best moments in the program was the big death drop in the middle and that kind of jump move he did in the SlSt towards the end. I'm still shocked he eeked out a win despite three buttplants, but stranger things have happened (like four falls and 1st place finish :laugh:). Hopefully they'll continue to work on the program for the GP...right now, I am not impressed.:rolleye:
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I finally watched Chan's program and...meh. I'm much less than impressed. :sheesh: The way some people were talking about it, I was expecting a lot more.

The downside of reading before watching.;)

...Continue my comments. Takahashi has shown his usual flare and artistry. Too much and too soft hands and wrists for my taste. I prefer Chan's and Buttle's masculine softness in the programs to Takahashi's "flamboyance" - a brilliant word from Joe when he described Takahashi's style. Speaking of Joe, where is he these days? I hope he's healthy and still has time to post here.

......quickly go hiding from Takahashi fans...:p
 
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