What will it take to host a Sr B international competition in North America?

What will it take to host a Sr B international competition in North America?

After Thornhill was cancelled recently as the lone Sr B international to grace North America in years...that got us to wondering. What will it take to get a Sr B in North America, or at the very least, out of Europe? The elite European skaters have a definite advantage, hopping from one Sr B to another in the later summer/early autumn, racking up ISU points, while the North American elite skaters are at a definited disadvantage, and to some extent, the elite skaters from Asia (although their NGBs do submit a few entries) have a similar disadvantage. Why doesn't the ISU distribute the Sr B events like they do the SGP events...one or two in Europe, one or two in North America, one or two in Asia? Is the ISU so unforgiving and so Euro-centric that they can't see that it would help the popularity of the sport to spread out the Sr B events across western and eastern hemispheres? Is there any serious drawback to spreading these events out?

The credentials for Senior B classification are spelled out by the ISU so it's up to the federations to organize them. The distinct advantage of Europe is having closely clutered smaller sized nations, making events easily international and athletes' attendence easy.

It's all (political) geography but maybe that could be taken into consideration by the ISU.

From ISU Communication No. 1629, the criteria for a Senior B competition to be eligible to provide ISU World Standings points:

1.4 International Senior Competitions, provided there are minimum 8 single skaters, respectively 6 Ice Dance couples out of four ISU Members present respectively 5 Pairs out of three ISU Members.

1.5 Events, mentioned under paragraph 1.4, in which the Technical Panel (Technical Controller and the two (2) Technical Specialists) are from three (3) different ISU Members. (It is recommended that participating ISU Members, before entering their skaters, check with the organizing Members of International Competitions whether this requirement will be fulfilled).

Click to expand...

See this archived thread: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?33762-US-to-Apply-for-Senior-B-Internationals

I vote to make Liberty a Senior B event.

If the IFS sanctions an event do they receive financial remuneration for the sanction?

On that former thread we speculated about Thornhill being cancelled perhaps for financial reasons. And someone said the US was about a year away from hosting one .
Just recently on a similar thread at FSU someone said they heard that the USFSA wasn't going to send any skaters or judges to Thornhill and that figured largely in the cancellation. Does anyone know if there's any truth to this , and if so why ?

Strictly cost ?

Not enough time to alter plans for this year ?

Prepping for their own senior B ?

Maybe it's best for both federations to begin hosting in the same year so there could be a mutual exchange of judges , each only having to lure third country officials?

With the # of skaters that train full or part time in NA , I can't imagine it would be too difficult to attract competitors.

Since a few Canadian posters never fail to mention how skating is absolutely booming in Canada I think a N. American "B" event makes more sense in Canada.

In USA events like 4CC and Worlds don't get mentioned in the papers or broadcast on TV so it seems highly doubtful USA has the interest in organizing a "B" event.

Heck, we hardly give a hoot about "A" events in the CoP era. :

Come on Hernando, even if you just want another opportunity to be snarky, please at least understand the subject being discussed.

Senior B events are not about popularity or TV rating. Nobody outside the intense fandom or unassociated with the skating clubs and the participating skaters are interested in them and they will not be broadcast or be in any news, except maybe in the very local media.

These are opportunities for lower ranked skaters to practice competitions and rack up some ISU credits so they may get better ranked and hopefully more GP assignments. Currently, skaters outside of Europe are at a distinct disadvantage for dearth of Senior B events. That's why fans are concerned, interested, and discussing possible N American Senior B being organized and accredited by the ISU.

SkateFiguring said:

Come on Hernando, even if you just want another opportunity to be snarky, please at least understand the subject being discussed.

Senior B events are not about popularity or TV rating. Nobody outside the intense fandom or unassociated with the skating clubs and the participating skaters are interested in them and they will not be broadcast or be in any news, except maybe in the very local media.

These are opportunities for lower ranked skaters to practice competitions and rack up some ISU credits so they may get better ranked and hopefully more GP assignments. Currently, skaters outside of Europe are at a distinct disadvantage for dearth of Senior B events. That's why fans are concerned, interested, and discussing possible N American Senior B being organized and accredited by the ISU.

Click to expand...

Seems to me skaters outside of Europe have been doing fairly well. Perhaps the Europeans need the advantage of hosting a few B events to keep their rankings competitive.

Like I said, or actually it was you who said "skating is booming in Canada."
So what is stopping Canada from running a B event?

For that matter why don't the US and Canadian federations work together and host a B event that rotates between the two countries. Like the old N.American championships used to do.

That's what we're trying to figure out , here , Hernando. Is there some co-operative plan being hammered out ?

Canada had scheduled Thornhill to be expanded to Senior B status this year and it was implied by a poster who seemed to have pretty good information that the US would also have a Senior B in a year or so. Then the ISU dropped the new GP set-up , which may or may not have influenced the scenario , and suddenly Thornhill is back to being a non-sanctioned event and everything seems to be on hold. So what's up ?

Hernando said:

Seems to me skaters outside of Europe have been doing fairly well. Perhaps the Europeans need the advantage of hosting a few B events to keep their rankings competitive.

Click to expand...

Comparable or even greater talents outside of Europe tend to be ranked lower than the European counterparts because of fewer events and therefore points available to them. This gives them fewer or no GP assignments and further deprives them opportunities to develop their competitiveness and even chances to participate in major events. This is about equalizing development opporutinies.

Like I said, or actually it was you who said "skating is booming in Canada."

Click to expand...

Show me when I ever say "skating is booming in Canada"? I have however expressed gratitude that Canadian networks do show more skating competitions than the US ones.

So what is stopping Canada from running a B event?

Click to expand...

That is one of the things we have been discussing in this forum. Some of us suspect it's the economy. Contrary to popular assertion that Skate Canada is all powerful and running the ISU and dictating the international judges, it is a federation of one of the nations and economies considerably smaller than those of Europe, US, and Japan. With 10% the population and market of those of the US, yet facing the same requirements and difficulties of organizing Senior B in N America, Canada has more to consider carefully. Really it is more appropriate to pose this question to the giant to the south. After all, US does have a larger talent pool to take care of.

For that matter why don't the US and Canadian federations work together and host a B event that rotates between the two countries. Like the old N.American championships used to do.

Click to expand...

This may make sense if it could be worked out. Why don't you propose it to those actually in the position to negotiate and implement such a cooperative schemes?

A bigger issue is that skaters without an ISU minimum score for the year, even if they won US nationals or Canadian nationals, could find themselves unable to compete at or 4CCs or Worlds. Such a minimum score can be gotten at a Senior B. One can of course scratch for a Senior B between Nationals and 4CC's, but there is little to choose from at that time, even in Europe. It is a better idea to have one or more of the big summer competitions qualifified as a Senior B so that elite skaters can get a minimum score there.

Elladj Balde could not have competed at Worlds last year, for example.

Nor Adriana deSanctis - both were fifth at Nationals but had no international SB. Given retirements on the Canadian scene (and inconsistencies) they could easily find themselves in podium position but unable to go to 4CC or Worlds.

It is not clear what the local hosting club stands to gain by turning their event into an ISU senior B.

I was just looking at the results for 2010 Skate Detroit. There were 296 entries in the categories pre-juvenile and below. Once you get to the big time -- juvenile and intermediate -- interest falls off pretty steeply. In seniors there were 21 ladies, 6 men and 3 pairs.

It would certainly change the character of this immensely successful annual local event to try to bus in some international stars, judges, and officials.