Caroline Zhang

Reginald · Jul 7, 2011

http://cz-online.org/

Looks like Caroline has been doing battle with Leah Keiser recently. Caroline beat Leah in the California Championships. Caroline losk to Lean (and Vanssa Lam) in the All Year Figure Skating Club competition.

Wow! Do Caroline, Leah, and Vanessa really skate at the same club? The Los Angeles metropolitan area is just teeming with figure skaters!

I think that Caroline will have another down year this upcoming season. Then, she will rev up and have a super breakout year in 2012-2013.

To me, she is one of the most charasmatic skaters of the past four years.

What do you think? Is Caroline going up, going down, or flatlining?

R.D. · Jul 7, 2011

Zhang should be doing battle with Mirai Nagasu, Rachel Flatt and Alyssa Czisny, not Leah Keiser and Vanessa Lam.

So I'd say she's gone down(hill)...fast.

Jammers · Jul 7, 2011

Yeah there is nothing about Caroline that stands out. Her jumps are small her speed is slow and she just doesn't grab my attention.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 7, 2011

Caroline has to show more of figure skating elements, and less of what some call flexibility, and I call body contorts. Those body moves do not add anything to a performance, unless you see them as wow tricks. Spinning in a doughnut position is not at all that difficult. A skater has blocked any form of friction that may occur much more than in a basic Camel Spin.

Having said all that about body contorts, Caroline has improved in her speed and stroking.

Layfan · Jul 7, 2011

I also prefer the camel spin to the donut spin or the I spin and such. Caroline has an all right camel though in terms of position. You need flexibility to have good lines. It's not just about contortions. But for now, Caroline's speed and the obvious bad technique on her jumps are way too distracting for me. I can't be a believer at this point even though I know she's working on her problems.

Olympia · Jul 8, 2011

Every time we contemplate Caroline, I find myself getting angry at how she was coached. The girl wasn't self-taught, and she came up through the same system as all the other skaters. How did anyone let her get away with such incorrect technique? This girl seemed to have such talent. Wasn't she junior world champion? Of course her body changed as she grew older, but it isn't puberty that did her in; it's her lack of speed and of jump technique. It's very distressing to watch. I hope she can reverse her downward course.

gmyers · Jul 8, 2011

In 2010 Hamilton and Bezic were pretty nice to her and didn't criticize her too much but this year they really criticized her a lot. They pointed out all her faults. I take that as a sign that things are going really downhill. Why didn't they point out all the faults in 2010 - they were there? But in 2011 they were all over them.

PolymerBob · Jul 8, 2011

Well, if you go back and watch some of her old videos, paying close attention to the announcers, you will notice something. When she was skating well and winning medals, neither the announcers nor the audiences cared about her "faults". Other than an occasional comment about her unusual technique, the announcers gushed all over her.

When she started skating poorly, the announcers suddenly discovered her "faults".

ayayukiituka · Jul 8, 2011

I read a post from Caroline Zhang and Ashley Wagner thread that she was a leader after the SP at All year FSC competition and melted down in FS.

brightphoton · Jul 8, 2011

Olympia said:
Every time we contemplate Caroline, I find myself getting angry at how she was coached. The girl wasn't self-taught, and she came up through the same system as all the other skaters. How did anyone let her get away with such incorrect technique? This girl seemed to have such talent. Wasn't she junior world champion? Of course her body changed as she grew older, but it isn't puberty that did her in; it's her lack of speed and of jump technique. It's very distressing to watch. I hope she can reverse her downward course.

Back in her hyped days, I remember people being amazed she was dominating the junior ranks when she was coachless and self-taught during her intermediate levels.

I hope she makes a comeback next season!

fairly4 · Jul 8, 2011

last i knew caroline was hurt when she skated in that competition this year.
as far as not saying anything when she was younger--they didn't have to--how the first year they nailed her in her scores, not mirai, not rachel, not ashley, -just caroline zhang.

but this year i heard she was hurt-and for me she shouldn't have skated but did.
that is why she got a low score in the fs --but then the usfsa never gave her the benefit of doubt with jumps like mirai, rachel, ashley, agnes when they jumped up.
curious to see if christina gao gets benefit of doubt or not.

ImaginaryPogue · Jul 8, 2011

You know, it's interesting - for all her faults, I actually find her more watchable now than as a flexy-posy-junior. Blame my complete inability to watch junior skaters for a good part of that and sympathy for the rest. I think Zhang is a textbook case why I don't watch junior skaters in general - so many expectations heaped upon them at such a young age.

mskater93 · Jul 8, 2011

Caroline doesn't get the "benefit of the doubt" because, frankly, there is no doubt; her jumps have a propensity to be small and she skates slowly in and out of them which makes then highly prone to under rotation and because they have no speed and are small, they are more likely to be reviewed

fairly4 · Jul 8, 2011

mskater93
thank you very much. she does have a tendency to do that lately due to her injuries.
i love your answer. thank you .

prettykeys · Jul 8, 2011

PolymerBob said:
Well, if you go back and watch some of her old videos, paying close attention to the announcers, you will notice something. When she was skating well and winning medals, neither the announcers nor the audiences cared about her "faults". Other than an occasional comment about her unusual technique, the announcers gushed all over her.

When she started skating poorly, the announcers suddenly discovered her "faults".

Umm, yes. When someone is skating "poorly", by definition, they have faults. What's wrong with that logic?

Do you want us (the commentators, audiences, fans) to focus on her faults when she was skating well?

And it's easy to be less critical about a younger skater. When they get older and should know better, it's time to get real. You mad?

blue dog · Jul 8, 2011

PolymerBob said:
Well, if you go back and watch some of her old videos, paying close attention to the announcers, you will notice something. When she was skating well and winning medals, neither the announcers nor the audiences cared about her "faults". Other than an occasional comment about her unusual technique, the announcers gushed all over her.

When she started skating poorly, the announcers suddenly discovered her "faults".

This isn't a new thing--it's slightly hypocritical of announcers, but when Michelle won in 1996, no one took note of her flutz. They didn't start hammering her on the inside edge entry until she lost to Maria.

Same with Mirai Leung in Canada. There are videos of Tracy Wilson gushing over her and her unusual technique in jumps, but she wouldn't hammer her until later on in her career.

PolymerBob · Jul 8, 2011

prettykeys said:
Umm, yes. When someone is skating "poorly", by definition, they have faults. What's wrong with that logic? Do you want us (the commentators, audiences, fans) to focus on her faults when she was skating well?

That's basically my point. Nobody seemed to notice all these faults when Caroline was doing well. Take a look at this clip from the 2007 Grand Prix Final. Listen to the announcers. Where is the harsh, brutal criticism of Caroline's technique, mule-kick, slow speed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0pKn3iQ6s

Then a couple of years later when she started skating poorly, we got so many experts claiming that her OBVIOUS faults should have been corrected right from the beginning. Well, my point is that maybe they weren't so obvious. They are only obvious in hindsight.

demarinis5 · Jul 8, 2011

Was a new thread necessary to rehash what has been going on with Caroline's skating the last couple of season. It has all been said, IMO.
When I opened this thread I thought someone had posted a recent video of Caroline skating or had some news on how she was progressing.

prettykeys · Jul 8, 2011

PolymerBob said:
That's basically my point. Nobody seemed to notice all these faults when Caroline was doing well. Take a look at this clip from the 2007 Grand Prix Final. Listen to the announcers. Where is the harsh, brutal criticism of Caroline's technique, mule-kick, slow speed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0pKn3iQ6s

Then a couple of years later when she started skating poorly, we got so many experts claiming that her OBVIOUS faults should have been corrected right from the beginning. Well, my point is that maybe they weren't so obvious. They are only obvious in hindsight.

Maybe I am wrong about this, but I believe no commentator wants to sound like a sourpuss and talk about the negatives when someone is skating well. So, when a skater is doing OK they naturally will want to talk about the better aspects of a skater than their faults. And, you are wrong. I recall at least some skating fans talking about Caroline's jumping technique before she started to have trouble rotating them as she got older and bigger. That's the whole point about jump technique. When you are smaller and lighter it may work OK, but the disadvantages come out later, which is what happened to her. She had that mule kick for forever and some people commented that it was the one thing out of her skating that was noticeably ugly.

And even if someone has faults as a younger skater, many of us can assume that they are being worked on. It is a little redundant to harshly criticize young skaters for the things that are incomplete or imperfect as they are expected to various extents; better to give support and praise for the type of progress that has already been made.

So my point is, the problems Caroline Zhang faced as an older skater were indeed OBVIOUS as a younger skater, even when she was skating well. They weren't somehow made up or exaggerated as she got older; the effects of her faults became magnified when she gained height and weight.

Sylvia · Jul 8, 2011

demarinis5 said:
When I opened this thread I thought someone had posted a recent video of Caroline skating or had some news on how she was progressing.

In case anyone missed my reliable hearsay information posted in an earlier thread...

Caroline Zhang's SP music this season is "The Rushing Wings of Dawn" by Tim Janis, choreographed by David Wilson (Alissa Czisny skated her SP to this music way back in 2001-02 and 2002-03) -- link to the song so you can hear what the piece it sounds like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iSyQcnbDaY

Caroline Zhang

Reginald

Match Penalty

R.D.

Jammers

Joesitz (RIP)

Layfan

Olympia

gmyers

PolymerBob

ayayukiituka

brightphoton

fairly4

ImaginaryPogue

mskater93

fairly4

prettykeys

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!

PolymerBob

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

prettykeys

Sylvia

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