Caroline Zhang

PolymerBob · Jul 14, 2011

bigsisjiejie said:
Since in the traceback of history, you can see things going off the rails before Caroline became a junior (I'm talking skating skills and technique here),

I don't remember ever seeing a video of Caroline before she became a junior.

bigsisjiejie said:
I smell the hand of a parent and/or agent deeply involved in the hype, rather than Caroline herself. She was just too young to have been her own chief career strategist.

When did Caroline's parents hype her?
When did Caroline's agent hype her?
When did Caroline's coaches hype her?

Nobody ever hyped Caroline except the people at USFSA and competition announcers.

Reginald · Jul 14, 2011

Sadly, Caroline seems to be slipping. She has not won first place in an event since 2006-2007. And the 2010-2011 season was the first season ever that she did not win a medal in any event.

Oh, Caroline!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Zhang#Competitive_highlights

PolymerBob · Jul 15, 2011

Reginald said:
Sadly, Caroline seems to be slipping. She has not won first place in an event since 2006-2007. And the 2010-2011 season was the first season ever that she did not win a medal in any event.

Oh, Caroline!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Zhang#Competitive_highlights

Actually, Caroline has won club events, and she won a gold at the World Team Trophy in April of 2009.
Wikipedia includes the WTT for some skaters, but not for others.

Jammers · Jul 15, 2011

heyang said:
I think Caroline would've been better off if she had taken this past season off and just worked on her training. It would've taken some the pressure off of her, as well. She definitely is more cautious during competition now and that slows her down, etc. She needed to work on her technique out of the limelight and feel more comfortable with the changes before going into competition. Now, she feels as though she's got even more to prove after last year's Nationals.

Both she and Mirai seem to have performance issues. Caroline's struggles have been much longer - contributed to by her poorer technique/bad habits. Mirai can fight, but when she sees the win in sight, is when she collapses - because she starts thinking more about winning, vs about fighting for the performance. Michelle Kwan also had the same performance anxiety at the Olympics - even though she never collapses as badly has Caroline and Mirai and was usually just edged out by not being perfect on that Olympic night.

Michelle was know for her tenacity and toughness when she competed. I'm sure she got nervous when she skated like all skaters but when she had a lead was tough as nails. She just wasn't as aggressive in Nagano as she should have been and probably listened to her father who told her if she didn't make a mistake she would win. Mira on the other hand has to conquer her nerves or will never be a champion. It's hard to believe that it's been since 2008 Nationals since she's won a competition. With her talent that's ridiculous.

R.D. · Jul 15, 2011

I think the issues of Nagasu and Zhang couldn't be any more different. Zhang has issues with the fundamentals and needs to virtually go back to the drawing board if she has any hope of reviving her career- and even that is a very long shot. Nagasu, OTOH, has issues with her nerves- the psychological part of competing. Once she can conquer that, she's all set.

Violet Bliss · Jul 15, 2011

^^^^ Sometimes it's hard to say which problem is more difficult to conquer, depending on the individual.

Layfan · Jul 15, 2011

Jammers said:
Michelle was know for her tenacity and toughness when she competed. I'm sure she got nervous when she skated like all skaters but when she had a lead was tough as nails. She just wasn't as aggressive in Nagano as she should have been and probably listened to her father who told her if she didn't make a mistake she would win. Mira on the other hand has to conquer her nerves or will never be a champion. It's hard to believe that it's been since 2008 Nationals since she's won a competition. With her talent that's ridiculous.

On the other hand, she skated like a winner at 2010 nationals and at the Olympics. Those were by far her two best competitions of her career, certainly better than her 2008 nationals performances. We could debate her placements endlessly but the wider point is that she showed zero sign of crumbling and either of those competitions, which were probably the most pressure filled of her life. So we don't have to go all the way back to 2008 to find a time when Mirai held it together when it counted. Last year was a more disappointing season of course. We'll see what happens this year. If ever there was a season to make mistakes and learn from the it's probably the one after your first Olympics when you still have four more years to go until the next Olympics. But I certainly hope she makes her move this season.

PolymerBob · Jul 16, 2011

R.D. said:
I think the issues of Nagasu and Zhang couldn't be any more different. Zhang has issues with the fundamentals and needs to virtually go back to the drawing board if she has any hope of reviving her career- and even that is a very long shot. Nagasu, OTOH, has issues with her nerves- the psychological part of competing. Once she can conquer that, she's all set.

Mirai seems to have nerve issuses, at least some of the time. As for Caroline, she does have some technical issues to iron out, but I think her problems now are more physical than technical.

krenseby · Jul 16, 2011

PolymerBob said:
Mirai seems to have nerve issuses, at least some of the time. As for Caroline, she does have some technical issues to iron out, but I think her problems now are more physical than technical.

What do you mean by physical? Something related to stamina or strength perhaps?

PolymerBob · Jul 16, 2011

krenseby said:
What do you mean by physical? Something related to stamina or strength perhaps?

When we last saw Caroline, her strength had not kept up with her weight. She will need to increase her strength and/or reduce her weight in order to get back the appearance of effortlessness the judges look for. I remember reading a report that she had lost some weight. I guess we will find out next month.

feraina · Aug 1, 2011

There's a new article about Caroline in the USFSA news section. It's a Q&A. Not very detailed, but it's nice to hear something about her since National's! Obviously she hasn't fallen off USFSA's radar either.

PolymerBob · Aug 3, 2011

I can't post the link, but there is an interview on IceNetwork. She does sound positive about her training. Since she has her Pearl Spin back, she must be over her earlier back problem. We will see how she is doing next weekend at Glacier Falls.

heyang · Aug 3, 2011

Layfan said:
On the other hand, she skated like a winner at 2010 nationals and at the Olympics. Those were by far her two best competitions of her career, certainly better than her 2008 nationals performances. We could debate her placements endlessly but the wider point is that she showed zero sign of crumbling and either of those competitions, which were probably the most pressure filled of her life. So we don't have to go all the way back to 2008 to find a time when Mirai held it together when it counted. Last year was a more disappointing season of course. We'll see what happens this year. If ever there was a season to make mistakes and learn from the it's probably the one after your first Olympics when you still have four more years to go until the next Olympics. But I certainly hope she makes her move this season.

I think Mirai performs better when she's the underdog. A lot of people were surprised that she finished so high at the Olympics. If anything, that added pressure on her as the next great hope of the USFSA. More often than not, she seems to falter when she's in the top going into LP at World's - so, when she skates her LP, she thinks more about winning, instead of performing, and ends up making mistakes.

R.D. · Aug 4, 2011

heyang said:
More often than not, [Nagasu] seems to falter when she's in the top going into LP at World's - so, when she skates her LP, she thinks more about winning, instead of performing, and ends up making mistakes.

Womp womp - sound familiar?

janetfan · Aug 4, 2011

heyang said:
I think Mirai performs better when she's the underdog. A lot of people were surprised that she finished so high at the Olympics. If anything, that added pressure on her as the next great hope of the USFSA. More often than not, she seems to falter when she's in the top going into LP at World's - so, when she skates her LP, she thinks more about winning, instead of performing, and ends up making mistakes.

Actually as a senior skater Mirai has skated an LP at Worlds all of one time. Hardly enough data to form a reliable trend.

If we consider Mirai's LP's at 2010 Worlds, the Olympics and 2011 4CC it feels safe to say she has performed very well twice and poorly once.

In the only three major Intl events where Mirai has competed she has never been beaten by another America Lady.

Is that a trend? Maybe we will find out in the next few seasons.

kwanatic · Aug 4, 2011

Mirai will be a tough cookie to beat once she realizes how incredible she is. When you think about it, she can stack up to any skater in the field and even beat them in certain areas: She's got Yu-Na beat when it comes to spins and extensions; she's got Mao beat when it comes to speed (namely in the flow of her jumps); she's got Miki beat in several areas (line, extension, spins)...having all of those qualities makes her competitive. The only thing she lacks right now is the reputation. She's currently holding the reputation of being a crumbler--when the pressure is on her to perform, she backs off a bit, makes silly mistakes and essentially shoots herself in the foot. She was a spin away from gold at TEB last year; a spin and 2A away from probably taking home silver and another shot at worlds at nationals...it's like self-sabotage. Mirai wants to be the best but I wonder if she's afraid to be the best...:think:

She seemed to have another break-thru at 4CC last year. Of course, she was skating from behind again, but the point is she delivered. She's not a headcase to the extent of Sasha Cohen, who had everything and more and just couldn't seem to skate a perfect program more than once. Mirai's got the mental toughness to skate cleanly...it's the pressure of 1st that seems to scare her off. For her sake, I hope she and Frank took a page out of Alissa's book and really focused on her competitive mindset and quieting those nerves.

As for Caroline, I really hope she can build herself back up to where everyone hoped she would be. She looked so promising in 2007 but her inability to commit to correcting her issues back then is the reason for her woefully bad skating basics now...

R.D. · Aug 4, 2011

^ There was also that one time (I think it was Cup of China?) where she folded in the FS again after having the lead after the short.

janetfan · Aug 4, 2011

R.D. said:
^ There was also that one time (I think it was Cup of China?) where she folded in the FS again after having the lead after the short.

I recall a skater who had the lead after the SP at Nagano and SLC who could not close the deal.

If results were so predictable they wouldn't need to keep score.

fairly4 · Aug 4, 2011

regarding mirai--why didn't frank tell the media why she couldn't close the deal at worlds or nationals. why he only stated one persons fault to the media not anyone elses, even richard didn't do that he protected her. frank /usfsa never protected the michelle, they didn't rip tara either.
as far coming up in juniors to seniors the federations/judges overlooked mirai, rachels, ashley, litllte mistakes . they can't say the same for zhang all you need to do is go back and look at the gp event for her technqiue /urs and compare them to when rachel, mirai, jumped over. world of differenced wasn't nailed.
as far as mirai the sun valley show it looked like she ur all her jumps.
not that not saying she can't do it. it mirai has to do it for herself. she is a good skater, she believes in herself she just expects the scores to come no matter the mess up.
why didn't figure skating come out and state tara barely jumped over the ice and ur,
as far as closing the deal she skated clean, almost perfect. the Judges already made up their mind because the a certain federation wanted another someone to win way ahead of timne so they overlook all that persons mistakes.

for me that person should have won, compared to today

kwanatic · Aug 4, 2011

Hernando said:
I recall a skater who had the lead after the SP at Nagano and SLC who could not close the deal.

Hey, she closed every other deal time and time again! You're bound to have a few deals you just can't seem seal...she still managed to retire with a highly decorated portfolio. :biggrin:

Anyhoo, back to Mirai....

At COC last year she had the lead going into the LP, but she had several errors and winded up 4th I believe. I'm inclined to give her a pass on that one. She was just coming off of an injury and being off the ice for 6-weeks, so I really didn't expect her to win. Still, a few less mistakes and she'd have ended up on the podium at least. Last year, she was in a decent peaking pattern, getting better and better at each competition and ending with that magnificent performance at 4CC.

She's healthy this year, so hopefully she'll have a better time in her GP events and be able to peak at nationals and worlds...my fingers are crossed.

Caroline Zhang

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Reginald

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