Instrumental Versus Vocal Music

This topic may have been discussed at length in the past, and if so, forgive me for raising it again. I've been watching some of my tapes of past championships, some from decades ago, some from the recent past, and one aspect of competition that's changed, as we all know, is the allowance of vocal music in the competitive skating programs. There was a time when vocals were permitted only for exhibitions - the competitive music had to be purely instrumental.

IMHO, I prefer 100 percent instrumental :thumbsup: It provides a great background for the performance and lets the skater express the music in its purest form. Vocals can be very distracting, in my opinion. Sometimes I've spent too much time listening to Barbara Streisand or Neil Diamond and less time watching the skating routine. Hopefully, the judges have not experienced that same reaction!

What do you think? Do you prefer instrumental or vocals or a combination of both?

There can never be too many threads about music! We haven't had one for awhile.

I know what you mean about vocal music being a distraction, but if you widen the perception of vocal music to include opera, Renaissance music, and other works, the voice (or voices) can often have the effect of another instrument. Recently I heard some French classical vocal music from the Romantic era, by Gabriel Faure and also Henri Duparc. You can't imagine how lush and rapturous this music is, and some really artistic skater such as Mao Asada (or Michelle in her heyday) could skate the heck out of it.

So I'd agree with you in some instances but disagree in others. Not that we'll actually see Asada skating to "Poeme de l'amour et de la mer" by Faure anytime soon (I apologize to all French speakers here because I don't know how to type accent marks on my home PC), but in my dreams I can enjoy such a thing. And you never know: look at some of the pieces Lori Nichol has used in her career.

Olympia said:

I know what you mean about vocal music being a distraction, but if you widen the perception of vocal music to include opera, Renaissance music, and other works, the voice (or voices) can often have the effect of another instrument.

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I agree entirely. While Florent Amodio's use of an exhibition as his LP at worlds grained on my nerves (not as much as the fact that they did not ding him for blatant disrespect of the rules) and the lyrics did not help him out, I must say that some dance programs have used vocals as another instrument with amazing success, especially Davis/White's "Samson et Delilah" LP program.

Olympia said:

There can never be too many threads about music! We haven't had one for awhile.

I know what you mean about vocal music being a distraction, but if you widen the perception of vocal music to include opera, Renaissance music, and other works, the voice (or voices) can often have the effect of another instrument. Recently I heard some French classical vocal music from the Romantic era, by Gabriel Faure and also Henri Duparc. You can't imagine how lush and rapturous this music is, and some really artistic skater such as Mao Asada (or Michelle in her heyday) could skate the heck out of it.

So I'd agree with you in some instances but disagree in others. Not that we'll actually see Asada skating to "Poeme de l'amour et de la mer" by Faure anytime soon (I apologize to all French speakers here because I don't know how to type accent marks on my home PC), but in my dreams I can enjoy such a thing. And you never know: look at some of the pieces Lori Nichol has used in her career.

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I've sung in many concerts as a a member of the soprano section, and I really love vocal classical music and appreciate the effort that goes into performing it well. We've sung the the completel Handel's "Messiah" a number of times, Saint-Saen's "Christmas Oratorio", Brahm's "German Requiem", Faure's "Requiem", Mendelsohnn's "Elijah", Vivaldi's "Gloria", Mozart's "Coronation Mass" and a number of other oratorios. Our choir spent a great deal of time learning "I Was Glad" for one of our concerts, and I was absolutely thrilled when this piece was the processional for the wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton. !!!

Anyway...whenever any skaters compete to vocal music, I spend as much time, if not more, listening to the vocal performance than watching the skating performance. No doubt that's partially because I've enjoyed being a member of choral groups for a number of years. However, I still hold to my view that instrumental music is the way to go, as far as the competitive routines are concerned. I'd much rather put the focus on the skaters, with the music as the background, than the other way around.

My two cents, of course.

Olympia, I think that "Poeme" is by Chausson. Faure's vocal music is nothing to get excited about, IMHO, or at least it hasn't grabbed me yet... but the combo of Mao and Faure's instrumental music could be ravishing.

Oh, and as to the topic, I almost always dislike vocal music with skating. It's usually distracting.

Sorry, Spun! You're right, of course--I must have had a brain freeze. It's Chausson, and it's exquisite. I have it on my playlist on the work computer, even, and I still crossed wires in my brain. Thanks for the correction!

One Faure choral piece I'd recommend is his Requiem, though I understand if your preferences turn elsewhere. And I agree that Mao and Faure's instrumental music would be a match made in Heaven. Besides Pelleas and Melisande, there's Masques et Bergamasques, and some of his chamber music, which is to my Romantic tastes superlative.

So if you two Silvers (Spun and Pond) aren't enamored of vocal music, I suppose I can't interest you in Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs for skating?

By the way, Pond, I'm so jealous of you (in a good way!) that you've gotten to sing all those works. My track record includes selected movements of the Brahms German Requiem and some sections of the Faure Requiem. Complete bliss.

Oh my gosh. As much as I love skating, the idea of the sublime Four Last Songs being chopped up for CoP-point-choreo is unbearable. A program based on Rosenkavalier (instrumental music/version only) might be lovely, though. JMO.

I've never heard the Faure Requiem - a big lacuna. I will have to rectify that. Thanks, Olympia.

I have to admit, when I think of the Four Last Songs, I don't think of them in a competiton but as a performance piece. Or in my skating movie, coming to a theater near you sometime in the thirtieth century, choreographed by some yet-unborn Balanchine. You're right; they absolutely shouldn't be cut up. Your idea of Rosenkavalier is much better for the real world.

Olympia said:

So if you two Silvers (Spun and Pond) aren't enamored of vocal music, I suppose I can't interest you in Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs for skating?

By the way, Pond, I'm so jealous of you (in a good way!) that you've gotten to sing all those works. My track record includes selected movements of the Brahms German Requiem and some sections of the Faure Requiem. Complete bliss.

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Olympia, I have to stick with my viewpoint concerning vocals for competitive skating routines. For me at least, it's too distracting, and I spend more time listening to the vocals than watching the skating performances.

I don't know where you live, but perhaps there's a church or community choral group in your area that performs some of the 'great masterworks' and/or oratorios. One of the larger churches here has an annual Oratoio Choir concert and invites singers from all over the area to rehearse and perform. It's a lot of rehearsals - three months of Sunday evening rehearsals - with mandatory attendance - and the results are always terrific. We have a summer choral group that also performs an annual sacred concert, and we're rehearsing that now, with our concert the last Sunday in August.

I'm brand spanking new here, so before I add my 2 cents to this topic can I first say that I absolutely love this site. I can't skate to save my life (hence, the screen name!), but I've watched fs since I was a wee tot (my older sister had a Dorothy Hamill "wedge" at one point). But I've been lurking at this board since the last Olympics and it's so educational and entertaining! Y'all could give Dick and Peggy a run for their money!

I joined because this particular topic is one that DRIVES ME CRAZY. I know the focus is on instrumental vs vocal music, but music in general... Well, it isn't the vocalizing so much that is the problem--it's lyrics. Once you add a lyric to a particular skating performance, it narrows the possible interpretations of that music (it would, for example, be very odd indeed to skate a real TraumaDrama routine to a happy pop song). Vocalizing in and of itself can be quite beautiful (when voices are used as another instrument in the mix), but this is really a case where the words DO get in the way...

But music in general...I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I worked my way through college as a waiter. On winter days when we had very few customers, we would compile lists amongst ourselves. One of the most memorable was I WOULD RATHER PUT A KNIFE THROUGH MY EARDRUMS THAN LISTEN TO THESE WEDDING/BAR MITZVAH/ANNIVERSARY SONGS AGAIN. I'm sure there are many many pieces of music that you would personally want never to hear again in a program. I for one am somewhat dreading the upcoming ice dance Battle of La Stradas (I already lived through the Battle of the Carmens, thank you very much). With so much music in the world, why fall back on the same old same old? I bet people here could list dozens and dozens of pieces that have never been skated to--but should (like Penguin Cafe Orchestra's "Perpetuum Mobile" and--this is the actual title--"Steady Skate").

Well it's probably another topic (and one I hope would interest people) but as a fan of the sport it is something I feel strongly about.

I may be odd, but I find that lyrics stifle the creativity a skater or a team can put on a program. Once a lyric is put on a song, the dancer/skater/artist is locked to interpreting those words. Crone/Poirier tried to branch away from the words in Eleanor Rigby, and they drew criticism. However, had they chosen to skate to the song without the lyrics and interpreted the music as it is, they would have had more artistic liberty.

It's the same with skating to an instrumental version of a popular song. Last year, C/P used Nocturne/Bohemian Rhapsody to interpret Orpheus and Euridice. I thought this was a very creative departure, and I really liked their interpretation. However, when the Bohemian Rhapsody came on, I couldn't help but think of Freddie Mercury...or that scene in wayne's world!

Of course, if a pop song is easy enough to interpret (Baby One More Time, Genie in a Bottle), a skater can do cool things that go beyond the cheesy lyrics (Baiul's Baby One More Time and Lipinski's Genie in a Bottle went slightly beyond the lyrics).

WeakAnkles said:

I bet people here could list dozens and dozens of pieces that have never been skated to--but should (like Penguin Cafe Orchestra's "Perpetuum Mobile" and--this is the actual title--"Steady Skate").

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First of all, welcome to the board, Weakankles. Secondly, re: "Perpetuum Mobile" - wasn't that skated to as a foursome in "Salute to Gold" circa fall 2002 - Kristi, Todd, Roca & Sur? If that's the performance, and the correct music, wow - loved that program. BTW, wasn't that music also used subsequently in a computer commercial (Hewlett Packard)?

WeakAnkles said:

I'm sure there are many many pieces of music that you would personally want never to hear again in a program. I for one am somewhat dreading the upcoming ice dance Battle of La Stradas (I already lived through the Battle of the Carmens, thank you very much).

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For what it's worth, W/P went a different direction. I know there are rumours that one of the Russian teams (probably I/K) going for La Strada, though.

Based on all the cheesy, schmaltzy and mindless pop music selections used ad nauseum by skaters in exhibition programs, I am for maintaining the ban on vocal music just for the sake of avoiding the use of such music in competition. In an ideal world, skaters would of course choose beautiful classical vocal pieces but I am afraid that we will probably see a lot of Taylor Swift and others of her ilk instead.

Sigh...you're probably right, Evangeline. I like to hope the coaches and choreographers would protest, though. Or that the ISU would create limitations on the types of music that could be used. But the outcome might end up with a succession of top-twenty teenybopper hits.

Regarding competitive skating to music with vocals I would say these quotes sum up my feelings about alot of vocal music and singers in general:


"Play louder, I can still hear the singers"
Sir Thomas Beecham to the orchestra during a rehearsal of "Elektra"

"No operatic star has yet died soon enough for me."
Sir Thomas Beecham

Welcome, WeakAnkles. Thanks for joining in. The more former singing waiters, the better, I always say! (Or list-making waiters, anyway.)

Post often, post long.:yes:

evangeline said:

Based on all the cheesy, schmaltzy and mindless pop music selections used ad nauseum by skaters in exhibition programs, I am for maintaining the ban on vocal music just for the sake of avoiding the use of such music in competition. In an ideal world, skaters would of course choose beautiful classical vocal pieces but I am afraid that we will probably see a lot of Taylor Swift and others of her ilk instead.

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Evangeline, I also agree with you. Without trying to sound snobby, some of the "music" that is blared in the sound systems for exhibition programs is more suitable as a background for roller derby and/or world wrestling - with men and women punching, throwing, and slamming each over all over and out of the arena.

I don't care for vocals in competitive skating. I'm fine with lyric-less vocalizations (see Lambiel's "Poeta" as an example). I also think that the choices made would be a lot broader than some here seem to think, but I'm glad they're not present.

Not a question of versus, but for practical reasons of an universal language without barrier. Without words, precise meanings, it has better potentials to remove prejudices (political, cultural, social, national) and provide wider scope for artistic expressions and interpretations. Although how it works in reality is certainly debatable, especially the average audiences (and probably some of the judges?) just aren't that musically sensitive? The fact our music vocabularies are very much conditioned by our upbringings culturally, socially and nationally, so it is very possible, something sound beautiful to one, some may discriminate; and that something that is artistically credible, may sound like an irritation to another.

People can scruple over artistry (including how the music is played) by calling it 'subjective' (not entirely true), but in reality it does take a well versed and even sophisticated type of audience to appreciate and know what is good art. And even those who are widely versed will often disagree at times - just check out all the arts reviews by seasoned critics. Certainly, any pieces of work's true artistic value are determined through time, and it is not always recognizable by the so called COP 'standards' value. Itself - a false fluid system (although less fluid than 6.0) according to whatever 'raison d'etre' it claim to satisfy of its time (include politics).

I am probably among the minority who dares to suggest there are just too many contrived performances at expenses of pretty inoffensive music, it often mislead Joe and Jane average who became convinced the skater is lyrical just because they like the 'background' music chosen or rather the 'idea' of it.

While pretty inoffensive music doesn't disturb me, it is the lack of the authenticity or connection with the music and expressions that often distract me from technically competent performances. Personally, I am greatly annoyed by contrivances that has no artistic value scores highly in the PCS because it claim to satisfy whatever current COP system du jour - it completely misses the purpose of what figure skating should be about; which are great expressions using the entire body, heart and soul on ice - with real purpose to attain new artistic and physical heights and breakthrough human limitations.

To those who are musically aware, I can only compare to piano competitions. 10 high level pianist in a piano competition, is it the one who played all the notes exactly on time according to the music score wins? Or is the one who played with great original expressions and conviction who shows a masterful command of their instrument who made a mistake wins? High level judging would certainly able to differentiate a competent performance to a great performance. It is the philosophical underpinning of why we do everything that we do. So we can be like robots or so we can have soul?

To bring it back to figure skating. Sport is a human science, and as such it should greatly satisfy humanity subjects. It is these rare moments of artistic (including music as an integrated element rather than a backdrop) and physical synergy with clarity working together that kept us glued to see if these incredibly rare moments of perfection can be attained during these most crucial moments. Otherwise we might as well be watching gymnastics or show jumping.