Fluffs and Image in the 21st Century

gkelly said:

They're sportswriters writing for an audience of sports fans, so we know which way their bias leans.

Here's another article with dance choreographers' takes on figure skating, to look from the other side of the outside:
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/02/16/dancers_on_figure_skating/index.html

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Are you suggesting sportswriters should not write about skating or that their opinions are not valid?
Are Hersh and Brennan the only sportswriters who should report and offer opinions about skating?

Since we are considering image I think what writers in major Natl publications write about skating is very important and does help shape skating's image.

Thanks for the link about the Dancers. Very interesting and fascinating to hear such mixed opinions.

Speaking about sportswriters, hear is an article from Sports Illustrated about Sasha's comeback and the controversial scoring at 2010 Natls.

Interesting that the title of the article is "National Inquiries" as it questions the new scoring system.

You may disagree with the writer but I still think skating needs more coverage as opposed to limited and only favorable coverage.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1165304/index.htm

Buttercup said:

As for people having fun with skating costumes, this is as good as it gets

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I think that article had made up my whole Olympics I think the part 2 was about ice dance? I cant find it.

We here in the US need to realize that there will never be another MK. Just like there will never be another Michael Jordan. Time to move on and let these girls make a name for themselves.

Jammers said:

We here in the US need to realize that there will never be another MK. Just like there will never be another Michael Jordan. Time to move on and let these girls make a name for themselves.

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Well said. NBA writers are doing the same thing comparing all outstanding new talent to MJ.

People (athletes) like that are simply one of a kind.

However, that said, we ARE in a medal drought in ladies so this is no ordinary cycle. There is a lot of depth at the national level, but the best cannot compete with the world's top skaters.

R.D. said:

Well said. NBA writers are doing the same thing comparing all outstanding new talent to MJ.

People (athletes) like that are simply one of a kind.

However, that said, we ARE in a medal drought in ladies so this is no ordinary cycle. There is a lot of depth at the national level, but the best cannot compete with the world's top skaters.

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Who has been called the "next Michelle Kwan? :think:

I have never heard Mirai referred to that way even after she switched to Frank Carroll.

Is Agnes being hailed as the next Michelle or has she been talked about as a future hope?
Same with Christina - who I have heard called "mini-Yuna"

Has Rachael "East of Eden" Flatt been hailed as the next Michelle?

I think Caroline might come closest but we are talking about 4 years ago and certainly not lately.

Maybe Kimmie, or Jenny Kirk

Not Emily who was and always will be a "Hughes girl."

Caroline Zhang?

Nagasu has flown under the radar but I do remember Zhang getting a bunch of hype circa 2007.

As for Em, most people can't tell her apart from her sister

R.D. said:

Caroline Zhang?

Nagasu has flown under the radar but I do remember Zhang getting a bunch of hype circa 2007.

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Yeah, i started watching/following figure skating around that time and everyone on the boards where talking about the next big thing, Caroline Zhang. Most of them already claimed the 2010 olympics for her and where certain she would be the next Michelle!

The girls in the dresses still is like ice princess. Hamilton with his suits LOL tried to have more of a uniform for skating. Even like Witt got in trouble for pants? Was she playing Robin Hood? LOL. Just more athletic. Slutskaya at 2006 Olympic SP was perfect. Of course you had stupid Bezic saying " no attempt to be artistic" Like "where is Slutskaya's dress and classical music? BOOO!!!!" Closed minded Bezic's.

I think Americans really need a girl to root for who has a chance to win everything....while some might have forgotten, I know at one point even Sasha was a household name. I think Alissa Czisny would be the US' best bet because she (1) has been around for a while and (2) has an underdog story. Americans love an underdog. Her fluff (which I sadly can't find on youtube anymore =[) shows her well....and, unlike Mirai or Flatt or any other American figure skater....Czisny has been in Super Bowl commercials and subsequent Automotive Industry commercials, like http://youtu.be/DfDrSwIEoG0

But, I may be biased because I love my Czisny. =]

And, just for the record...

We are past the days when Miss America brought in huge television ratings.

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Miss America may be struggling to stay on TV.....but Miss USA and Miss Universe (same organization) are doing well, have embraced the changes in society and are showing the most beautiful women on NBC 2 times a year to big audiences. =]

Miss America is the girl next door....Miss USA is the girl you wished lived next door. =]

(http://youtu.be/WWlD5lbR8dg)

I m confused, If Miss Usa is for example Miss Illinois, Miss Universe is Miss Venezuela .. then which countries are competing in Miss America contest, of North&South America?
it is a crucial information

^ Miss America is also just for the United States. As Pista writes, the difference is that the girls in Miss America are supposed to be good girls, while the contestants in Miss U.S.A. are bad girls (in the good sense of "bad." )

The Miss America contestants are college students, they are supposed to demonstrate some sort of "talent," they do volunteer work for charities, the "man they most admire" is their father.

Like figure skaters, they fall into the non-floozy category.

Did you know that Michelle Kwan was a celebrity judge for the 2007 Miss Universe contest.

I was once in the Miss America contest. (This is true -- I played in the band. )

seniorita said:

I m confused, If Miss Usa is for example Miss Illinois, Miss Universe is Miss Venezuela .. then which countries are competing in Miss America contest, of North&South America?
it is a crucial information

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Miss America and Miss Universe are two different competitions. Miss America doesn't compete in Miss Universe. The American competitor in the Miss Universe "stream" is called Miss USA.

Miss America is an older competition, I believe. It dates from the 1920s and began in Atlantic City, New Jersey. The contestants are from the fifty states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Miss Universe of course has contestants from many countries. Interestingly, Puerto Rico competes separately from the U.S. in the Miss Universe competition. (P.R. is an unusual political entity, being a Commonwealth of the U.S. rather than a territory or a colony.)

Exactly. Thanks guys! Most non-pageant fans don't know the difference.

Miss America was the original. In about 1950, the current Miss America refused to pose for pictures in a swimsuit, which caused the main sponsor, Catalina swimsuits, to pull out and create its own pageant, Miss USA. They are two different systems, with Miss USA state titles having the "USA" appendage....Miss Alaska USA, Miss Michigan USA, while Miss Alaska and Miss Michigan compete in Miss America. Miss USA goes on to compete in Miss Universe (Miss USA, Miss Teen USA and Miss Universe all are owned by the Miss Universe Organization, which is owned by Donald Trump, with the winners getting nearly identical prizes, but different prestige, incuding, interestingly, 3 rooms in the same Manhattan Apartment).

Now, my reason for bringing it up is that Miss USA has been able to change and remain popular, while Miss America (and figure skating) has, in some ways, failed, and lost its general public audience in many ways. While Miss America even fell of of basic cable 2 years ago (since, they have made radical changes to get back on, but still arent quite up to par) Miss Universe (and through that, Miss USA) is even having big name performers Nicki Minaj and Enrique Iglesias as their high profile entertainment next month. In many ways, they have kept current in regards to sex appeal, but still remained classy in many ways.

ABC has apparently picked up Miss America again because I remember it being in their listings sometime this year.

At least their organizers seem to be trying.

Mathman said:

I was once in the Miss America contest. (This is true -- I played in the band. )

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And I was ready to ask if you were a judge

What instrument, Math?

Interesting point about Miss America vs. Miss USA/Universe. At least we know that the ladies are doing their bit with costumes. Short of skating in swimsuits, they can't get much more glitzy than they are now. Maybe hair extensions....

I guess we could have performers in the intervals between skating. I'd hate to see singers perform for the actual programs, though. You know what the camera would do--focus on the singer and not on the skater.

Maybe the ISU could do what USFS did for lower level figure skaters - let them skate to music with lyrics. The reason for this allowance was to keep the younger skaters interested in doing programs and the like and to allow them to use music they relate to better (so when you go to a Basic Skills competition, you hear a lot of "(Go Ahead and) Kiss the Girl", "Colors of the Wind", and "Be Our Guest" from the under 9 crowd and "Fireworks", "You Belong With Me" and "Teenage Dream" from the tween/teen skaters). Maybe if skaters were allowed to compete with Gaga, Pink, Taylor Swift, and Katie Perry as their program music, it would attract a few more people to stop for a moment when flipping channels? Classical music is right out for most people these days and with 300 cable channels, flipping past and hear Carmen or Tosca or La Strada isn't going to attract most casual viewers to stop and watch.

Yes, it might limit interpretive abilities and chopping up a 5-7 minute piece of music (or a couple of them) with lyrics into a coherent 4:10 program could be messy, but look how well events like National Showcase are doing in terms of applicants (they started on Tuesday or Wednesday, I think, to fit in all the events). Probably 90% or more of skaters at that event will use some piece of music with lyrics. In fact, when you go to an event like Adult Nationals, the Interpretive (it has a new name now, but everyone will STILL call it Interp, I bet) events often have nearly as big a crowd in the stands as the Championship events (that required people to qualify through Sectionals, so theoretically the "best" skaters at those levels are competing in championship events) because they are often original, clever, funny, and/or emotional and usually highly entertaining. If the skaters were able to use music that's contemporary for them or truly has meaning to them, they may skate better because they will be more relaxed which would make it more interesting to watch as well and possibly attract new fans. Just a thought...

I believe there are instrumental versions of those songs available. But apparently there has been an old-school standard established and as a result, you hear the same few pieces recycled time to time. Apparently there is risk involved in "being different" which is why so many top-level skaters play it safe w/music choices. At least I think that's why.

I think it's because there's a bunch of music already pre-sliced and diced and it's easier to recycle pieces between skaters for the choreographers than it is to really spend time searching for something off the beaten path.

Seriously though, why NOT allow current music with lyrics?